Heya,
I`ve been reading through this site all bloody night, trying to get an answer and trying to figure out what to do about my intercooler/radiator.
Ok, basically in a nutshell, this will be the spec of my FD in the next month or so:
Apexi Power FC
WGT Uprated Twin Turbo`s
Greddy Elbow + Bov
Greddy Profec B Spec II Boost Controller
Blitz Twin filter Induction Kit
HKS Downpipe
Custom Downpipe back straight-through exhaust
ARC Uprated SMIC
KG Parts Secondary Fuel Rail
2 x Bosch 1680cc Injectors for above rail
Aeromotive FPR + Guage
(Bosch 044 Fuel pump or Walbro Pump if needed?)
Ok, i`m going to be hopefully running around 1/1.1 bar of boost pressure. Will the ARC SMIC be "ok" for cooling the air? As i`ve read varying things about SMIC intercoolers, some say they are pants, others have ran over 400bhp on them. I know the ARCs are good...but will it be good enough?
At the moment my water temps are fine, always in the 80`s really...but obviously fitting the uprated twins and running more boost will put the temps up a bit. Will it be worth me going for a Koyo Rad? Or should I just wait and see what temps im getting once i`ve had the uprated twins & fuelling bits and pieces fitted and mapped?
Thanks for your educated replies. :King
I would say at 1/1.1 bar on Uprated Twins the ARC IC\'s core is too small, too get the best out of the mods you have you will be wanting either a larger smic (greddy or PFS for example) or skip to a FMIC.
From personal experience, i uprated the Coolant system before going for more power. You may want to check out the Radtec large core upgrade too, a mate of mine has one and its a nice bit of kit.
You want to keep your eyes open for a HKS twin power too (would finish you set up off nicely)
Hi mate,
Yeah a FMIC set-up was looking like an option for me if needed, cant really afford to go V-mount to be honest. Plus i`d rather not move the battery/air con.
I was thinking maybe get a decent FMIC core, and get custom pipework made up for the battery side so I can keep the battery in the stock location.
With regards to the radtec large core, is that a rad upgrade or an intercooler? I see they do the v-mounts but for over 1k, thats way too much for me to be honest. Doesnt seem necessary unless i`m going for a big single conversion.
I have also been looking at the HKS twin power, I would imagine my ignition system would be maxing out so this seems like a good plan. I`ve seen them for around £250/300 is that pretty much the best value I will find? Are they easy enough to install?
Quote from: trevtubby;628680With regards to the radtec large core, is that a rad upgrade or an intercooler? I see they do the v-mounts but for over 1k, thats way too much for me to be honest. Doesnt seem necessary unless i`m going for a big single conversion.
No i was referring to there rads, they make the V-mount kits too but they do a really nice stock mount rad. Everyone has there own preference for intercooler set ups, V-Mounts are good (don\'t forget for that £1000 you get a Rad,IC,Pipe work and brackets etc, a decent FMIC would cost you over £500 new) they are more aimed at the Track day side of the Rx world where as the FMIC is pre rad so it won\'t heat soak in the same way which makes it good at low speed (road/Traffic or drag events) so there more of an all rounder but with a bit of a catch, with the IC at the front of the rad it has a tendency to reduce the air flow to the rad hence the reason people rate the Apexi FMIC.
Quote from: trevtubby;628680I have also been looking at the HKS twin power, I would imagine my ignition system would be maxing out so this seems like a good plan. I`ve seen them for around £250/300 is that pretty much the best value I will find? Are they easy enough to install?
Just keep your eyes open, they come up second hand every so often, we paid £180 but that was in the "Non Credit crunch" era :(. I would recommend getting the Plug and play Harness for the Twin power, it literally took me two minutes to fit it.
If you need an Elbow or 044 pump I have some in stock. :)
I have a GReddy elbow or one of our own Carbon elbows :)
I wouldnt go for a V-mount until you want to go for the bigger turbo otherwise you will get too big a pressure loss.
I dont think you need the twin power until you are pushing big power either.
Quote from: AtomicRex;628690If you need an Elbow or 044 pump I have some in stock. :)
I have a GReddy elbow or one of our own Carbon elbows :)
I wouldnt go for a V-mount until you want to go for the bigger turbo otherwise you will get too big a pressure loss.
I dont think you need the twin power until you are pushing big power either.
Would I not get the same pressure loss with a FMIC set-up? I would have thought if anything it would be worse as the pipework is longer?
I was actually going to come to you for the 044 pump mate lol, I have seen one of your other threads and the prices seem reasonable. How much can you do the 044 pump for at the moment inc delivery?
I may just put the bits and pieces on that I have now (inc the pump) and see how it maps up, if pip decides that the cooling will be an issue or the spark needs more ...erm...spark lol, then I will look at upgrading to FMIC and HKS twin spark?
Only problem with that is that i`ve wasted £300 on mapping, which will need doing again. Hence why i`m asking this question. :D
It would probably be better to go front mount or vmount.
But for a SMIC the trust one is the best, Laeeq ran 430 something WHP with a trust SMIC with good ducting.
Quote from: Rzla;628704It would probably be better to go front mount or vmount.
But for a SMIC the trust one is the best, Laeeq ran 430 something WHP with a trust SMIC with good ducting.
Yeah thats the post I saw, about somebody running high power on a SMIC. I wouldnt be hoping for that much power to be honest, so I thought the ARC may be up to the job for say high 300`s BHP.
I do realise going V-Mount or FMIC would be better, but as this was only supposed to be a small/medium hike in power (hence keeping the twins), I would rather not throw massive money at it. Not until I go single anyways...which wont be for a while yet. So I was kinda hoping I could get away with the ARC SMIC and an uprated rad maybe.
I can\'t comment on how good the ARC intercooler is as I have no experience with it. I just know the Trust SMIC was superb. The ducting has to be spot on though, otherwise you will get heat soak.
Quote from: AtomicRex;628690I wouldnt go for a V-mount until you want to go for the bigger turbo otherwise you will get too big a pressure loss.
Same could be said for a FMIC? it also depends on which one you get?
Quote from: AtomicRex;628690I dont think you need the twin power until you are pushing big power either.
I don\'t agree, we where running about 360hp on a road set up and was recommend it by the guy who set the car up, Also with the car being used on the road we where killing plugs left right and center, with the Twin power they seem to last better.
I suppose if you have replaced your Coils and ignites recently you may get more power before it plays up.
Quote from: Grizzly;628707Same could be said for a FMIC? it also depends on which one you get?
I don\'t agree, we where running about 360hp on a road set up and was recommend it by the guy who set the car up, Also with the car being used on the road we where killing plugs left right and center, with the Twin power they seem to last better.
I suppose if you have replaced your Coils and ignites recently you may get more power before it plays up.
Hmm, for the sake of £200 or so, maybe not worth taking the risk. May just buy one anyway before mapping. One less thing to buy later huh? lol.
I`ll keep my eyes out for a used one too. :D
I\'m running a Large Vmount on my FD with stock turbos running about .85bar, and the boost is coming in about 3-400 RPM sooner than on the original mazda pipework, and no aparant pressure drop?! Although I have done custom pipework from turbo to intake elbow!
Jono
Quote from: Rzla;628704It would probably be better to go front mount or vmount.
But for a SMIC the trust one is the best, Laeeq ran 430 something WHP with a trust SMIC with good ducting.
Atualy there are some really good SMIC\'s out there Peter Farrel super cars (with its Duct) the Asp/M2 Medium etc you can get good Hp with the right one but there is still that heat Soak issue. From personal experience there is not as much of an Issue with the length of pipe as the quality of the core, you can have a cheap small Ic that has a worse pressure drop/Restriction than a quality larger one the thing is with ic\'s you buy a good quality one.
BTW if you do come across a Greddy SMIC you can do worse ;) but they do like to be ducted well.
Quote from: Grizzly;628707Same could be said for a FMIC? it also depends on which one you get?
I don\'t agree, we where running about 360hp on a road set up and was recommend it by the guy who set the car up, Also with the car being used on the road we where killing plugs left right and center, with the Twin power they seem to last better.
I suppose if you have replaced your Coils and ignites recently you may get more power before it plays up.
I do agree....there really is no point in going OTT with any type of intercooler as it wont be optimal for your particular set up.
Maybe the plugs you were using werent that good, but I didnt suffer any problems with running 400bhp on my race car, and I didnt run a twin spark. Standard coils too
Quote from: Grizzly;628710BTW if you do come across a Greddy SMIC you can do worse ;) but they do like to be ducted well.
Very true, they need to be ducted well, but once they are they are very very effective.
Go for a Twin Spark as for one it will ease your mind that you wont get ignition breakup at top end as long as your plugs and leads are in good nic.
As for rad - yes get one, the Koyo has a lot thicker core so will bring or cause water temps to stay stable.
The ARC intercooler is a very good intercooler and in my opinion better than the Greddy one. As said above ducting is the key. You could have the best SMIC in the world but if the ducting is wrong then its pointless having one.
What plugs are you running on your setup? Also you dont need a 044, just dump a Supra pump in and that will be fine for the twins. One way of checking is looking at your fuel injector % on your commander to see what max your hitting on full boost and then you can work out which pump you need. Your running a good FRP so you have no worries at the moment with fuel pressure to the rail.
Quote from: AshRX;628743Go for a Twin Spark as for one it will ease your mind that you wont get ignition breakup at top end as long as your plugs and leads are in good nic.
As for rad - yes get one, the Koyo has a lot thicker core so will bring or cause water temps to stay stable.
The ARC intercooler is a very good intercooler and in my opinion better than the Greddy one. As said above ducting is the key. You could have the best SMIC in the world but if the ducting is wrong then its pointless having one.
What plugs are you running on your setup? Also you dont need a 044, just dump a Supra pump in and that will be fine for the twins. One way of checking is looking at your fuel injector % on your commander to see what max your hitting on full boost and then you can work out which pump you need. Your running a good FRP so you have no worries at the moment with fuel pressure to the rail.
Cheers mate, the Twin Spark looks like a nailed on certainty then. I shall add that to my list lol.
As for the ducting, the ARC intercooler uses the stock ducting, thats one of the reasons I bought it. Is there a way of making the stock ducting better?
I havnt got the upgraded fuel system fitted yet, so wont know the % values until its being mapped. But like the Twin Spark, is it worth me going to get it mapped only to find that the pump isnt up to the task. Effectively wasting £300 on mapping when a £100 pump could have been installed?
Hmmmm....its all things to mull over. :D
rip the standard ducting out and build your own dude. The standard ducting on the FD is pants :)
If your worried about the fuel pump just get a Walbro or supra pump. 044 will probably be a waste on twins
lol, how easy is that to do?
Any pics/how to`s etc of people making their own ducting?
As for the pump, I hear what your saying...but, a walbro or supra pump will probably cost about or near as damn it the same as an 044, plus when it comes for me to go single...i`ll already have a pump up to the task? If that makes sense. :)
speak to CharlieP on here dude, he made his own for a SMIC
Out of interest does this look like your Ic? I only ask because there is a newer version of the Arc SMIC which is very similar to the Greddy one, but the old one is Dodgy (was told its a stock core with alloy end tanks :()
http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee63/salamander_101/?action=view¤t=ARCenginebay.jpg
Also i know what people are saying about fuel pumps but if you ask me the Bosch is the way to go.. look at it this way its German so its Over engineered and will never break down :) plus i know guys that have been using them in Cosworths with 8 injectors for years at the upper levels, they go on faultlessly and will do what ever you wish of them.. For me i wouldn\'t use anything else. No i don\'t work for Bosch..
Yeah its that one? :(
I have a brand new v-mount going cheap if your interested mph@uses.co.uk (mph@uses.co.uk)
In My Opinion this is the daddy of SMIC\'s, its the PFS (Peter Farrel Supercars) i put this pic up so you can see a well Ducted IC ;)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d26/Grizzly30/PFS.jpg)
Quote from: trevtubby;628816Yeah its that one? :(
Sorry but yeh you need an Upgrade, that one is not much bigger than stock.
Out of interest, when you say you have uprated Twins what have you had done?
Quote from: Grizzly;628821Sorry but yeh you need an Upgrade, that one is not much bigger than stock.
Well that sucks lol.
Oh well :(
thats the SMIC i have ready to go on also :o although im still on standard twins with induction/decat/apexi pfc etc
Is it a worthwhile upgrade over a standard intercooler or am i just wasting time fitting it?
Its helped with my temps quite a bit mate since fitting it, its great for stock twins with minimal mods. I think its just when you make that next step it sounds like it wont be up to the job.
Boo :(
Depends what your doing with it, if you are running twins in the mild end of the range it the Old Arc will be fine. There are things to make it work better like rigging up some decent Ducting etc.
Trev when i took the turbos off i was using an Apexi GT fm intercooler/ Ron Davis rad which kept water and air temp down .
Quote from: davyv;628901Trev when i took the turbos off i was using an Apexi GT fm intercooler/ Ron Davis rad which kept water and air temp down .
You dont fancy selling the entire set-up do you? lol :rollin