My ABS light comes on when I turn the ignition key and then goes out as required, which I assume to mean the ABS is OK.
However I have never been convinced that my antilock system actually works.
At an recent autosolo on a good surface I had many front brake lockups.
Question: Is the FD ABS system any good.
Are you supposed to be able to feel the brake pedal doing a shimmy ( like on VWs)
Is there any other way of checking if the system is doing what it\'s supposed to do.
Any advice out there ??
Martin H
this is quite an interesting question, i dont think ive ever had to brake hard enough to find out so would be good to hear the answer :Thumbsup!
I can\'t comment on your BAS but it works on mine! Experienced it coming on on the road a couple of times in the wet and on track but it\'s not a massively intrusive ABS and you do have to work it hard to get any action!
Certainly never locked a wheel on mine.
The ABS on an fd does and should work brilliantly. It\'s very unobtrusive and not very noticeable when it is working, unlike some cars ive driven where you feel the pedal vibrate. I tried pretty hard to get mine to lock up and couldn\'t. You should change the brake fluid every 2 years to keep the whole system in top condition. If you don\'t change it, the fluid attracts moisture causing the solenoids to rust and play up!
The ABS, as has been said, seems pretty good on the FD. More to the point, when mine didn\'t work it was easy to spot by the simple expedient of locking up the wheels a few times!
i suppose a simple way to test is to either brake really hard on loose gravel or take it out when its icey ( although i dont recommend the 2nd idea ! )
Mine works fine, only had it kick in twice and each time it was hard to detect but you can tell it\'s working.
If the lamp is going out as required and the ABS come on at low speed there will be a problem with the inductance ring on either one of the wheels. Normally a crack or major rust issue, which is affecting what the ABS computer sees as an imbalance in wheel speed. How to diagnose - you need an ABS diagnostics system/laptop hooked up to the ABS diagnostics port and take the car for a drive. The dignostics will tell you which wheel has the issue. Just had a similar issue with my Alfa, new inductance ring problem sorted. Garages are rubbish at diagnostics and will want to sell you pick-up probes, ABS computer etc. The fact the light goes out when it should, says the system is working as it should, just getting a signal not in line with what it is expecting - the reluctance ring is the only thing that can do that.
FYI - the relectance ring, is the ring that rotates with wheel, the pick up probe is a small electro-magnet, the ring causes the lines of magnetic flux to be broken and cause an ac voltage. The ABS computer looks at the frequency of the resultant voltage, once the difference in frequency get beyond a set tolerance, the ABS responds by altering braking force at one or more wheels.
the betters half scenic had issues with a broken ring , but it was attached to the drive shaft - so not a simple job :(
but at least the garage knew what it was and didnt go down the route of ABS computer etc...
Mine worked flawlessly ive only once had to stamp on the brakes in anger and that was when the number 254 arriva bus was coming through a bridge on the wrong side of the road :Nono!
ABS on my FD is shocking!i Hate ABS with a passion in general.. Almost caused me to crash many times when its kicked in.. Once made me judder that far forward i had to mount the curb to not hit the back of a sudden stopping car. Where as if i had of lost traction and slid i would of stopped well before the rear of the guys car.put it this way.. if i had time to think i cant stop and mount the curb then u can imagine how long the ABS was juddering for... It just feels like when the abs kicks in it takes you 20 times longer to stop. as i would prefer to loose traction and control the skid myself. Hard to explain but I know what I meen.:)
this is a little text out of an ABS book.
The anti-lock
brake system
(ABS) was
designed in the
1970’s as a
mechanical solution
to brake
lock-up, which
can result in
spinouts and crashes. <<<<<<<<<<<<<< I can understand this... if your going 100mph.. but not 30mph like i was doing when it wouldnt physically let me stop fast.
Anti-lock Braking Systems
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]“More efficient brakes on an automobile will not, in
themselves, make an automobile any safer.” This statement,
made more than 50 years ago by two psychologists,
Gibson and Crooks, is still applicable today.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I am sure Everybody on this forum will have an Opinion to this..
ABS is designed to stop a vehicle in
a shorter distance than if the vehicle
had skidded to a stop. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< in some circumstances.. YES but from my Experiences.. NO.[/FONT][/COLOR]
Quote from: nuki;618036this is a little text out of an ABS book.
The anti-lock
brake system
(ABS) was
designed in the
1970’s as a
mechanical solution
to brake
lock-up, which
can result in
spinouts and crashes. <<<<<<<<<<<<<< I can understand this... if your going 100mph.. but not 30mph like i was doing when it wouldnt physically let me stop fast.
Anti-lock Braking Systems
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]“More efficient brakes on an automobile will not, in
themselves, make an automobile any safer.†This statement,
made more than 50 years ago by two psychologists,
Gibson and Crooks, is still applicable today.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I am sure Everybody on this forum will have an Opinion to this..
ABS is designed to stop a vehicle in
a shorter distance than if the vehicle
had skidded to a stop. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< in some circumstances.. YES but from my Experiences.. NO.[/COLOR][/FONT]
I\'d debate this, the purpose of ABS is to allow you to remain in control of the direction of the car while braking hard. If the wheels lock up you will continue in the direction of travel, or if you make a hard steering input you will spin out if at speed.
With ABS the wheels keep moving, allowing you to swerve AS WELL AS braking hard. ABS does increase the overall stopping distance versus a carefully applied firm braking force just short of locking - thats why ABS is usually removed/disabled for track cars. The problem is not very many drivers are skilled enough in an emergency to apply a \'just right\' amount of braking - the vast majority will just slam on the anchors as hard as they can, and then lock up, even more so in slippy conditions.
Quote from: nuki;618030ABS on my FD is shocking!i Hate ABS with a passion in general.. Almost caused me to crash many times when its kicked in.. Once made me judder that far forward i had to mount the curb to not hit the back of a sudden stopping car. Where as if i had of lost traction and slid i would of stopped well before the rear of the guys car.put it this way.. if i had time to think i cant stop and mount the curb then u can imagine how long the ABS was juddering for... It just feels like when the abs kicks in it takes you 20 times longer to stop. as i would prefer to loose traction and control the skid myself. Hard to explain but I know what I meen.:)
I know exactly what you mean. I had the same issue on my old 1995 rover 416. absolutely shocking performance when it did kick in, it seemd to take twice as long to stop.
Have you guys actually driven a normal road car without abs and locked the wheels? It ain\'t stopping quickly when it locks and slides!
I decided to see if my abs worked the other day, didn\'t realise how close i was to engaging abs on spirited drives, it does come on a touch to early.
Quote from: nuki;618030ABS on my FD is shocking!i Hate ABS with a passion in general.. Almost caused me to crash many times when its kicked in.. Once made me judder that far forward i had to mount the curb to not hit the back of a sudden stopping car. Where as if i had of lost traction and slid i would of stopped well before the rear of the guys car.put it this way.. if i had time to think i cant stop and mount the curb then u can imagine how long the ABS was juddering for... It just feels like when the abs kicks in it takes you 20 times longer to stop. as i would prefer to loose traction and control the skid myself. Hard to explain but I know what I meen.:)
Not convinced by all of this, tbh. Since I
have been in the unenviable situation of locking up an FD at speed when the ABS computer was duff, I think you wouldn\'t be stopping any quicker/neater/more controlled than if you had working ABS. This isn\'t conjecture, just my own personal experience and apart from badly flat-spotted tyres it cost me a perfectly good set of pants and a big lump of seat foam where my bum took a big bite out of it lol :rollin
from my experience abs is a good thing.
i used to have a car without abs and in the rain esp or normal road use, if you needed to brake really hard you would skid and you have almost no control in avoiding a crash if the wheels lock. you skid in a straight line. abs allows you to manouver the car around the obstacle while still braking.
ive only ever needed to brake really hard in my fd once. it happened about 3 weeks ago and the wheels locked once for a split second i was braking that hard. lucky for me the abs was there as the normal way of stopping skidding in a car without abs. ie. pumping the brake pedal would certainly have seen me into the back of the car that pulled out in front of me.
ive never really noticed any pedal vibration or noticed it kick in but i know its there now.
If you want to try it without then simply turn the car off and remove the ABS fuse from under the bonnet. Drive around and see what you think. For a daily driver i\'d probably leave it in but i learnt to drive without it (I am 36) and think it kicks in too early. I\'ve left the fuse out. I haven\'t locked a front wheel yet (and i have 6-pot APs).
I had a Clio 172 Cup a few years back and they don\'t have it. Did a lot of miles, went to the \'ring twice and never locked a wheel. It was comical listening to the kids on the Cliosport forum deciding amongst themselves that cars without it were dangerous and to buy a full-fat 172 or you\'d die.
Worth mentioning that as Renault designed the 172 Cup without ABS they had to adjust the brake bias to give less to the rear to stop them locking, and all 172 Cups will get an advisory at MOT time for weak rear brakes, which can be ignored.
This backs up something i heard, that cars don\'t have proper brake bias worked out any more, the manufacturer simply puts ABS on and leaves that to sort it out.
This is apparently true with the Rex. With my 6-pot APs you\'d think i\'d lock the front wouldn\'t you? I went out the other night and did a succession of \'stamp on the brakes going down a hill at high speed\' and found that at about 30mph or so the rears would lock, suggesting too much bias to the rear. So now i need adjustable brake bias.
I found that I couldn\'t lock the fronts (without being ridiculous). Yet turn the ABS on again and i can feel it working, at the front as well i think.
Anyway, i prefer the car with the ABS off. I\'ll leave it all there and the fuse out so i can enable it again come sale time or if i decide to start commuting in all weathers ;)
Andy
p.s. Brake Spec:
Front 6-pot APs, 330x32 AP disks, Pagid yellows
Rear standard disk and caliper, Hawk HP+ pads
Quote from: nuki;618030Almost caused me to crash many times when its kicked in.. Once made me judder that far forward i had to mount the curb to not hit the back of a sudden stopping car. Where as if i had of lost traction and slid i would of stopped well before the rear of the guys car.put it this way.. if i had time to think i cant stop and mount the curb then u can imagine how long the ABS was juddering for... It just feels like when the abs kicks in it takes you 20 times longer to stop. as i would prefer to loose traction and control the skid myself. Hard to explain but I know what I meen.:)
Sorry if this makes me sound like an old killjoy BUT it does sound like the problem might be traced back from the ABS to a more biological part of the system...
Papercup, you are more likely to lock the rears under most circumstances, the fronts have a lot more traction under braking because the weight of the car is on them - the rears go light, which is why they lock easier - the friction between the pads and disks is way way way more than that between the tyres and road.
That\'s the problem the 172/182 have - there was already feck all weight over the rears, and when you slam the anchors on the only thing keeping them in contact with the road is the rear springs.
Quote from: Papercup;618290This is apparently true with the Rex. With my 6-pot APs you\'d think i\'d lock the front wouldn\'t you? I went out the other night and did a succession of \'stamp on the brakes going down a hill at high speed\' and found that at about 30mph or so the rears would lock, suggesting too much bias to the rear. So now i need adjustable brake bias.
I found that I couldn\'t lock the fronts (without being ridiculous). Yet turn the ABS on again and i can feel it working, at the front as well i think.
I think this may have to do with the increase in progression of haveing 2 extra pot\'s you need more brake fluid to fill the extra 2 pots and get to locking point.
You shouldn\'t have problem with standard calipers without abs.