Mazda Rotary Club

Cars by Model Type => 3rd generation RX-7's => Topic started by: topi on May 15, 2009, 09:25:52 AM

Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 15, 2009, 09:25:52 AM
Ok I\'ve got a street ported 13b, rebuilt, apexi power fc, 850cc inj, gt4082 turbo and what should be new plugs etc.

Cars been running fine, and then this morning on the way to work it cuts out suddenly.

I left it for 2 mins and then started it up... after a few seconds it suddenly cut again. It did this a few times and now wont start.

The car smells petrolly so I\'m guessing the pump is ok.

I checked that there was a spark getting through and there was... but only a couple of times?
So I\'m guessing this will be the problem.. but what would cause that?

So far I\'m thinking it\'s the crank sensor or the amplifier? Any light?

There\'s supposed to be a guy viewing the car tomorro so I need to sort it asap :(
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: R1Dude on May 15, 2009, 09:32:54 AM
I had exactly the same problem with similar set up, it was a broken wire to one of the crank angle sensors.
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 15, 2009, 09:38:40 AM
Hmmm so I\'ll check the wiring. And if it isn\'t the wiring then it must be the sensor itself?
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: R1Dude on May 15, 2009, 09:52:23 AM
I would put money on the wiring, although my knowledge isn`t as high as most on here but I believe jap sensors and stuff like that are bulletproof
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: lee mills on May 15, 2009, 10:08:03 AM
What ecu are u running. Had a similsr problem a while back and my apexi had decided to die:eek:
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 15, 2009, 10:23:15 AM
Apexi PowerFC mate. It best not of died.

Which sensor is the crank sensor, there\'s 2 behind the pulley?
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: DR SCHNITZEL on May 15, 2009, 12:59:10 PM
its both of them i think? id like to know for sure myself though
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: chris on May 15, 2009, 01:57:17 PM
It needs both of them. The ecu sees the 24 signals from the inner one but needs a reference to know what part of the cycle it is on, for this it uses the outer sensor which sees the single peg on the disc. Ecu\'s usually only reference the single sync once during startup, from there on it counts each pulse.
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: leon on May 16, 2009, 03:10:59 PM
Hey Topi, I was going to say use the diagnostic box port and the LED trick but as you are using a PFC you don\'t need to do that, if you have the commander have a look on the sensor screen and it should tell you if any sensors are not working.  I had an issue where the engine would cut at intermitant times and it turned out to be the water sensor wire touching out onto the water neck! :3Confused
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 16, 2009, 03:18:38 PM
Leon, is this possible with just the ignition on? As my commander doesn\'t seem to load up until the engine is running? With just the ignition, the commander stays on the APEXi screen.
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: leon on May 16, 2009, 03:20:07 PM
I dont know i dont use the apexi :( if the engine dies as soon as you try to fire it, is the commander screen still there for you to look at? if you want to rule out the ECU i have a standard ECU you can borrow/have
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 16, 2009, 03:24:48 PM
The only problem is the big injectors, porting and turbo etc - I\'m not sure a standard ECU would run the car?
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: leon on May 16, 2009, 03:30:37 PM
Tis a verry good point! :( When your car cuts does the power to the commander drop or are you still able to see the data from it? but the standard ecu may be of use to diagnose a sensor being out as it will still flag a sensor being defunct or out of range on the LED flash test. but i can imaigne if your apexi is good you can get everything from there.
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 16, 2009, 03:55:38 PM
Hmmm, I\'ll go and have a fiddle now I think.

The standard ECU idea might be one worth trying actually. The car should even run, but badly.
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 16, 2009, 04:11:33 PM
Right, the commander deffinately wont do anything with the car just on IGN.

Also, with the ignition turned on, after a while I was getting some freaky noises comin from the coilpack area and what seemed to be the ABS kind of area? Like a shorting out kind of noise.

And strangely, the electric fans kick in randomly?

What the hell.
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: leon on May 16, 2009, 04:20:53 PM
Nexto the ABS is the Ignitor wich looks after the coilpacks. did the Apexi show any sensors out?
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 16, 2009, 04:34:43 PM
Nah, it just tells me it\'s made by APEXi all the while haha. Pretty damn usefull.
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: leon on May 16, 2009, 04:41:13 PM
Damn thats out of my scope now x.x Don\'t know enough about the Apexi\'s to help. I\'d have thought if you could star the car it would display the usual screens
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 16, 2009, 05:04:08 PM
Ah but the car wont start now, just turns over.

Strange thing is, I\'ve tested for a spark many times and sometimes I\'m getting a good spark... sometimes nothing? And now there seems to be no power to the coils?
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: lee mills on May 16, 2009, 07:06:21 PM
try a different ecu
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: arrouk on May 16, 2009, 07:22:07 PM
try changing  your coils and igniter,i had a similar issue and didn\'t check the igniter..............




till i found that was the fault, 3 coil packs later.

also try ecu, but i would be tempted to try the ignition system first just in case it that has caused some damage to your ECU, only one thing worse than damaging your ECU is doing someone else\'s as well.

Matt
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: Gatesy on May 17, 2009, 08:16:12 AM
Sounds strange dude my Apexi loads up as soon as I turn the ignition on.  If it doesn\'t start up until you start the car then perhaps theres your problem.  has it always been like that?
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 17, 2009, 11:50:03 AM
To be honest I\'ve never noticed mate, the car\'s always started first time and I\'ve only started looking at the commander when it\'s running.

Hmmm I hope this doesn\'t turn out expensive!
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 17, 2009, 01:11:43 PM
Right then!

After having the battery out and on charge over night, it\'s obviously reset the ECU and the PFC commander is operating properly with the ignition switched on.

We managed to fire it up this morning and then it seemed to struggle to fuel and die off. Now when you turn it over, it\'s trying to start but doesn\'t seem to have enough fuel to get going.

It\'s using a Walbro 255LPH Fuel pump, but it doesn\'t seem to be making much noise? Now in other car\'s I\'ve used Walbro\'s and they\'ve been pretty loud. This one makes a slight buzz for a few seconds if you put your ear right too it and then it stops.

Maybe this is my problem?

I\'m gonna try and hook up a fuel pressure guage in the line now to see if the pump is actually pumping anything.
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: lee mills on May 17, 2009, 01:32:55 PM
have a read of link might help
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47655
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 17, 2009, 02:26:59 PM
Cheers for the link Lee, I\'ll have a good read through.

In the mean time, I hooked up a fuel pressure guage inline at the pump and it\'s only putting out around 2bar. Which I think isn\'t enough.
So I took the fuel pump out and.... as far as I can tell it\'s completely standard. Denso written on the top.
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: gsb876 on May 17, 2009, 04:55:24 PM
was it working though dude  ?

I think it deffo sounded like there was no action from the fuel pump as i couldn\'t hear the buzz as you usually get, and upon attempted start up the injector duty was 1.2% which is too low.

At least the PFC was working again :Thumbs-up
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 18, 2009, 10:11:45 AM
It was working mate, but I don\'t think it was working enough haha.
 
I\'m gonna speak to Hayward today and see what they think the pump should be behaving like.
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: arrouk on May 18, 2009, 10:40:57 AM
dont forget that at idle there is a resister in the wiring to reduce the flow from the pump, from memory i think the pump gets 5v at idle.

matt
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 18, 2009, 12:51:44 PM
Right I spoke to Hayward, they reckon the standard pump is fair reliable and 2bar sounds about right under 4k rpm.
 
So I\'m completely stuck. I\'m about ready to give up and take the car somewhere. Shame I\'m nowhere near any rotary specialists.
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: Markriccioni on May 18, 2009, 03:57:31 PM
Sounds like a royal PITA dude, you\'re Leicester area right? If you need to try any bits (fuel pump, coilpack etc.) i only use my Rex weekends so you\'re more than welcome to try anything just for peace of mind.

Alternatively, Powergains Motorsport are London/Essex area, about a 2 hour trek but closer than anywhere else i can think of, about 100 miles or so.

Kerim\'s the man there, really helpful 07903758249
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 18, 2009, 07:42:50 PM
Thanks man, just wish you were living down the road haha!

I\'m getting really fed up with this thing now. I\'ve whacked a new fuel pump in there and still its just struggling and burbling and not starting up.

It really tries, but it\'s just acting as if there\'s no fuel getting to the engine.
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 18, 2009, 07:44:21 PM
Oh and I\'ve found a single pin plug laying around under the inlet. Black plug body, just one black wire going to it. Can\'t find anywhere to plug it into, so I\'m guessing it\'s out of use?
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: FD3S Efini on May 25, 2009, 02:53:07 PM
did you manage to find out wat the problm was mate?
 
Kris
Title: Help please - engine troubles
Post by: topi on May 25, 2009, 06:00:41 PM
Right I did!

Got the car down to Hayward on friday, and today (bank holiday Monday!!) I got a call from them saying that after a few routine re-fresh jobs, they found that the Power FC had somehow lost the map and was running a base job. So after a bit of fiddling they got the car running again and will re-map it.

Very impressed at the speed of their work, as I know they\'re very busy at the moment.