Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Anything Engine/Performance/Tuning related => Topic started by: lee mills on May 12, 2009, 05:56:59 PM

Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 12, 2009, 05:56:59 PM
Just got off the phone to Geff @reworx and it looks like my engine will probably have to be stripped down.Hopefully most if not all internal parts will be able to be reused but i would like to take advantage of the situation and get more porting done.(http://www.fduk.org/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif) with this in mind im would like to know the advantages of a full bridge over half bridge and vice versa.
The car is used for fast road and Drag racing
Thanks
Lee
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: BlitzBoy on May 12, 2009, 06:17:52 PM
if want full bridge then you need 1 piece apex seals, but you will lose any sort of road driveabilty.
Go for half bridge like me and James,Col. Era done wonders on the porting side :D
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: JayDee on May 12, 2009, 06:59:43 PM
You sure Mr Blitz about the one piece seals!!!
J

Quote from: BlitzBoy;607115if want full bridge then you need 1 piece apex seals, but you will lose any sort of road driveabilty.
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: Hi RX7 on May 12, 2009, 07:09:06 PM
Ah so that was your car on the dyno today, I was down getting the oil changed on mine, thats one big turbo you have there!
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 12, 2009, 07:09:13 PM
Will speak to Geff first but thinkking large half bridge with clearanced rotors:D
 
Oh and a big credit card bill
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: Red and Single on May 12, 2009, 07:22:48 PM
I\'m curious, tell me to get lost by all means, but any reason why you chose Reworx as you have RX motors mentioned in your sig ??
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: m1tch on May 12, 2009, 07:31:49 PM
PP :) tehe :D
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 12, 2009, 07:34:10 PM
Just the way it worked out. had my fuel lines and a few other bits uprated at Tims then went to Reworx to up the boost and i was losing power:eek: so left the car there for them to sort and this is just part of that process. the extra porting would just be me taking advantage of them having to strip the engine down anyway.
I normally use Rxmotors for any work that needs doing and Reworx for the tuning on the dyno
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 12, 2009, 07:44:46 PM
Quote from: m1tch;607143PP :) tehe :D

Maybe a little ott:driving
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: gear1275 on May 12, 2009, 09:37:48 PM
hey guys, sorry to but in but in. my water seals have just given up so i am in need of a rebuild and have been pointed in the direction of tim at rx motors, im really keen on a half bridge, im on stock twins at the moment and only have enough money to stay with them for now. how would a half bridge drive on stock twins? also, is the only expense ontop of a rebuild the machining for the bridge porting? or are there other things to be considered? i know it wont be the best drive around town and the economy isnt much good but i only get 10-13mpg atm driving average so it wouldnt make much difference or would it?
thanks, james
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: BlitzBoy on May 12, 2009, 09:44:25 PM
Quote from: JayDee;607124You sure Mr Blitz about the one piece seals!!!
J

depends how big the full bridge was i always thought , but im probably wrong lol
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 12, 2009, 09:48:15 PM
Quote from: gear1275;607164hey guys, sorry to but in but in. my water seals have just given up so i am in need of a rebuild and have been pointed in the direction of tim at rx motors, im really keen on a half bridge, im on stock twins at the moment and only have enough money to stay with them for now. how would a half bridge drive on stock twins? also, is the only expense ontop of a rebuild the machining for the bridge porting? or are there other things to be considered? i know it wont be the best drive around town and the economy isnt much good but i only get 10-13mpg atm driving average so it wouldnt make much difference or would it?
thanks, james

I cant fault any of the work Tim has done on my car. speak to Tim but i suspect a half bridhe is ott for stock twins but then i suppose it depends what your future plans are
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: kiwiracer on May 12, 2009, 11:08:38 PM
Quote from: JayDee;607124You sure Mr Blitz about the one piece seals!!!
J
 
Quote from: BlitzBoy;607115if want full bridge then you need 1 piece apex seals, but you will lose any sort of road driveabilty.

can be done but i am led to belive you have to watch out what kind off 2 piece seals you use
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: mx1311 on May 13, 2009, 09:58:24 AM
im guessing how wide the left over bridge of metal is affects apex seal choice :)

colum
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: hairyhoover on May 13, 2009, 01:51:26 PM
don you also need solid corner seals?
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: mx1311 on May 13, 2009, 02:04:38 PM
not always
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: karl_tate on May 13, 2009, 06:17:52 PM
so whats the reason for the strip down??
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 13, 2009, 06:19:17 PM
part of a process to diagnose loss of power:(
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: karl_tate on May 13, 2009, 06:28:24 PM
shame, must be quite a significant loss in power though??
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 13, 2009, 06:31:14 PM
needed a complete remap after uprating fuel lines etc. pointless mapping past 1 bar when am already about 40 whp down:2Rolleyes
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: gear1275 on May 13, 2009, 08:25:26 PM
Fair point lee, it probably would be a bit ott for stock twins! but if it would run with them for a period with a view to going single at a later date then il probably go for it, if tim gives me the go ahead. am i right in saying that the first turbo comes on boost at around 1500rpm on stock twins? if so, with a half bridge idling at 1800-2000rpm would i be sat on boost at idle?
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: m1tch on May 13, 2009, 08:37:43 PM
I know if you plugged in a stock FC turbo on a heavily ported FC engine it would be on boost on idle :D
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 13, 2009, 09:12:08 PM
Quote from: gear1275;607443Fair point lee, it probably would be a bit ott for stock twins! but if it would run with them for a period with a view to going single at a later date then il probably go for it, if tim gives me the go ahead. am i right in saying that the first turbo comes on boost at around 1500rpm on stock twins? if so, with a half bridge idling at 1800-2000rpm would i be sat on boost at idle?

To be honest mate i dont know speak to Tim he will explain the best way to go.
From what ive heard i dont think your stock turbos would last very long with a bridge
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: karl_tate on May 13, 2009, 11:06:09 PM
bridge is a no no with stock twins.

if your down on power after the fuel changes surely its something to do with what has been fitted?? i would try if you can, and revert back to how it was before you strip the engine down and see if your still down on power??
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 13, 2009, 11:12:54 PM
Quote from: karl_tate;607513bridge is a no no with stock twins.
 
if your down on power after the fuel changes surely its something to do with what has been fitted?? i would try if you can, and revert back to how it was before you strip the engine down and see if your still down on power??

Unfortunately i no longer have the sard fuel rail otherwise i would try this if nothing else just to rule it out
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 22, 2009, 10:57:35 AM
Interesting development after draining the car of all the race fuel that was in it and then filling bak up with v power she is now making power again.This was diagnosed after chris impey and gary gooding reported that after using the same race fuel they were also down on power. so the car is going to have its final map on saturday and hopefully if all goes well will pick her up next week.
 
For any one interested the race fuel in question was sunoco maxnos. it would appear for some reason that our cars dont like this fuel.
 
Lee
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 22, 2009, 10:58:40 AM
The only down side is no Brap Brap but to be honest will just be glad to get the car back:D
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: BlitzBoy on May 22, 2009, 11:28:56 AM
excellant news, thanks for the tip I was going to switch to Maxnos from VP c16 as it was cheaper.
Just shows you why c16 is more expensive, you pay your money you get quality
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 22, 2009, 11:30:48 AM
Where do you get your vp fuel from Mark?
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: BlitzBoy on May 22, 2009, 11:35:02 AM
I get it from the Motorshack guys, number is 01926 633379
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 22, 2009, 11:35:51 AM
Cheers mate
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: StavFC on May 25, 2009, 03:02:21 PM
Going back to what was mentioned near the start of the thread, how undrivable is undrivable? And for what reasons?
 
I have driven the Dragon RX7 when it was in its final full drag spec, and though it was a bit of a beast, it was suprisingly drivable, no daily driver, but it was fine on the Devon B-roads, suprisingly, lol.
 
Im not planning to change my engine spec at all, but we all know the unexpected "issues" that can occur when owning a tuned rotary, so its good to learn, lol.
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 26, 2009, 03:48:14 PM
Car is now ready for collection, slight increase in power but nothing to write home about (21fwhp). Rather then feeling excited i find myself feeling preety cheesed off with the car and with myself for wasting best part of £4000. I will take up until the weekend to think about it but will probably put the car up for sale then or even break it depending on what will get me the best price.
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: chrisJDM on May 26, 2009, 03:55:55 PM
well good luck lee with woteva you do with it
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: StavFC on May 26, 2009, 03:57:57 PM
So what was done to spend 4000quid? Be good to see a breakdown on what was done and why.
 
TBH people miss-diagnosing bad fuel as an engine issue that needed it removed and rebuilt dont exactly give me faith in the tuners...
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 26, 2009, 04:03:17 PM
enginewasnt removed in the end thankfully bad fuel was diagnosed before they got this far. havent spent all this money with reworx also includes price of initial fuel rail lines etc
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 26, 2009, 05:06:53 PM
Quote from: chrisrx7;611011well good luck lee with woteva you do with it

 
Cheers mate must admit am feeling pretty down about it at the moment probably just aswell im not collecting it until tommorow otherwise id probably of started stripping it already:rolleyes:
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: StavFC on May 26, 2009, 05:20:42 PM
Damn man, 4k is a lot of cash for seeing very little back. A rough breakdown of costs would be good if you are in the mood, might help others in the future.
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 26, 2009, 05:29:31 PM
to be honest most of it was spent trying to diagnose what the loss of power was in the first place. Items bought in process were
Injector driver
Swirl pot(not part of elimination )
uprated fuel lines
new secondary fuel rail and 1680 injectors
tried different gearbox and diff
new coil
different boost controller x2 (blew the first one)
race fuel:reallymad
 
Like you say wouldnt be such a bitter pill to swallow if there were significant gains made. but at the moment feeling like i should of just thrown the money down the drain
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: Ed_RX7 on May 26, 2009, 05:51:42 PM
blimey....cant have been 4 k just for that lot?
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 26, 2009, 05:57:08 PM
Plus all ancillaries and labour and dyno time ballistic blanket,master cylinder and engine out to fix sump leak
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 26, 2009, 06:03:08 PM
Thing is if id known it was going to cost this much id of just bridgeported it and had done with from the start.
Im not having a go at any tuners its one of those things unfortunately just feels like yet again my hard earned is being wasted. one things for sure though if i sell /break or keep there will be no drag racing this year. dont see the point in risking breaking something if your not at least competitive
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: Ed_RX7 on May 26, 2009, 06:28:39 PM
oh dear feel for yah....i suggest just get it and enjoy it...forget dragging for now.
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: steve garbutt on May 26, 2009, 11:43:07 PM
Probably not much to cheer you up Lee but you still have an awesome car there . :D
Title: half bridge or full bridge
Post by: lee mills on May 26, 2009, 11:48:53 PM
Cheers Steve