:Grrr
I feel compelled to let you guys know. I have been done a real bum deal by a rotary tuning company.
I paid them 2500 pounds for an engine with new housings which they also mapped taking it to 3000. The car has not boosted properly since this time. I phoned them up a good few months ago now after driving say 100 miles on this set up to say i was not happy.
They picked the car up. 2 weeks later phone call from them to say the car was ready and could they take a payment over the phone for the work?? they wanted another 250 pounds!!
I said "for what" it was meant to be warranty work. They had messed with the mapping, put oil and fuel in it and took it for a tweak. I went down there only to find the boost problem had not even been fixed they hadnt even taken the uim off . I still ended up paying them 50 quid and drove the car home. I used it with the boost issue for a while (an issue never had before on the previous engine) And since have spent 2300 quid in parts making it single turbo. While fitting the parts i noticed more problems with the engine. Namely
1) An electrical connector on the coil pack has been glued in. You wouldnt use this on your own car
2) The engine wire harness is incredibly brittle and not one any one would use on thier own car many wires have snapped.
3) The lim has threads missing from it and the uim is just bolted to it which looks awful meaning no chrome caps. Again you wouldnt want this on your own engine.
4) They didnt bolt the engine to the gearbox fully at least one nut missing (THE HARD ONE TO GET TO)
5) Taking the twins off one thread out of the 4. the bottom left one came off so easily it was obviously only finger tight then nipped. Which worried me as a thread might have been stripped and where these actually new housings.
6) in the seq turbo intake a metal tube had been sawed in half and it was full of swarf. In the actual intake system!!. This just isnt acceptable
7) The main pulley oil seal is leaking oil. (Which they might be fixing under warranty) i wont know yet until tomorrow.
Thats it. i flagged all these items up with them they picked the car up which has cost me another 25 quid!!
2 weeks later again i got a phone call to say. That they would basically not do any of the work because i cant prove anything as ive fitted the single tub and fuel system. All this effort to get rid of the boost problem that they wouldnt/didnt fix under the warranty in the first place.
A reasonable approach would surely be for them to say. "ok yes we admit there are poor bits on your engine and we will replace them with better scrap bits lying around the workshop."
"Yes we will sort your boost problem out on you new engine under warranty" It turned out they didnt even take the uim off. id did when removing the rats nest and there where a few tubes cracked which may have caused the issue" also the throttle body nuts were quite loose too this may have cause a problem.
Im very concerned my new housing has a stripped thread as the twins came off so easy i thought best let them look at it under warranty. They want to charge me half an hours labor to look at that. and if it is strpped they said they cant prove it was them.
Had this car engine 6 months now and it hasnt run properly from day 1. They have had thier money and now just dont seem to care.
What can i do they wont do warranty work on the initial work they done and they wont do any work on it now ive spent 2200 quid going single to fix thier problem.
what advice legal or otherwise can any of you give me?
These guys just dont seem to care now they have had my money. Money is going thier way all the time and my car isnt getting any better. The warranty is worthless it seems. im at the end of my tether with it.
hi mate,
first and formost seek legal advice professionally and talk to a lawyer in this feild of legal expertise.
might cost a little bit upfront.
but it will be advice that will be real world. not i heard my mates brothers daughter did this..
also do you have a "consumer affairs" (which in australia now is department of fair trading) in the UK.
i would also contact them and get some advice on what you have to do legally to sort it before bringing the big guns of court to them. might be cheaper..
secondly, i dont know about in the UK. but in australia, if you change the car in the area\'s where the problems lie (in this case you have removed it entirely off the car). it does void the warranty. as you have tampered with it.
personally id be worried about the engine itself as well.. if you have seen this much dodgeness. whats inside?? especially if front oil seals are leaking etc now.
as for your points -
1) yes glueing a plug to a device is dodgey. they could have got a new one from mazda
2) brittleness of harness. is a factory issue and no fault of the workshop. FD are reknown for higher under bonnet temperature. which leads to vacuum circuit and wiring harness failure. your boosting issues probably was a faulty pipe in the vacuum circuit. but for wires to be snapped means the workshop has been careless with the loom. anyone thats worked on FD\'s before electrically will tell you the less movement the better.
all your other points are back to them being dodgey bros and reverts me to my original first sentence.
seek legal advice..
First stop will be to contact Trading standards / Consumer direct. There is Government website is available but its best to phone up with every scrap of information you have available. Log the problem with them - They will also at this time search their records to see if there has been any problems with this company before. I found them extreamly helpfull when I needed stuff sorting out. They will give you advice every step of the way about what to do next.
Keep a log of all contact information, past and present.
The big problem is that you have done a lot of work on the car and it will be about proving who has done what.
So who was it? PM me if you don\'t want to openly say.
But they had the car 2 weeks now looked at it yesterday and said no no no and maybe to one problem. They could at least give me the benefit of the doubt especially after the amount of time and effort and money ive spent trying to sort a problem which they really should have sorted on the warranty and not charged me for.
If i dont get some kind of help or compromise from them today. I will name and shame em. I dont have the time to pursue a long legal direction. I thought they seemed like good lads thats why i trusted buying the engine off them. They are so busy with profit generating work im always a low priority. ll let you know later what happens today.
can pm not full member anymore
Oh when i said wires in the loom have snapped that was aftyer movement by myself, but teh general condition of the loom was poor
Didnt you actually install the rebuilt engine from Lindop yourself?
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51872
So didnt you notice the brittle wiring room when you removed or installed the engine.
If they installed the engine themselves then and damaged the wiring then they should rectify.
But if you installed the engine yourself from reading one of your past threads then I dont think you have any come back in regards to the wiring.
In regards to leaking oil seals they should defo repair this under warranty indicates they have not put the engine together properly or used a brand new oil seal
Can you tell me what the symptoms of you boost problem on your single turbo, do you get any boost at all? or does it spike, or does it lose boost over the rev range?
have you not got legal advice with your care insurance ??
i know that most places offer this ??
might be worth checking
take pictures of the faults, make sure you have a copy of the quote, paperwork etc, and find your self a solicitor. I hate companys who rip people of like this, just gives a bad name car mechanics. Hope you get things sorted and compensated for your trouble!
Firstly I would say that in most of these cases there is an element of both sides not being 100% on where they stand. As mentioned above if you contact consumer direct they will allocate a complaint number and give you some advice. I believe the norm is for them to ask you to give the company that number and inform them of what you are doing. They may also offer to send a letter on your behalf explaining the situation.
After this hopefully you can come to an agreement that is acceptable to both parties. I would think it\'s very unlikely that there has been any intention of ripping you off and elevating the situation slightly might just make them reconsider how they are dealing with it.
Good luck, hope it works out for you.
^^^^^ wise words
I think talking with the shop and trying to understand why they feel they will not repair the problems is the first step.
The next step would be to discuss what they will fix and then go from there. They will more than likely explain the position they have. You will explain yours and maybe in the process of communicating some plan can be reached.
As far as the wire harness, they should have told you that the harness needs to be replace, even if you knew this. They just get brittle and thats just a fact of life with these cars.
As far as the boost problem, if they were a competent shop they should know how to check all of the rast nest etc. So after this is resolved I would think finding someone new to do the work would be the best recourse. Thanks for listening.
So did you fit the engine yourself or not then? If you did, was the turbo pack already fitted etc?
This sounds like a bit of a mine field to me, about a year ago i had a similar problem (not with an FD) they kicked my warrantee out because i ties some loose pipe work up and rerouted some wiring (so easily done)
Too speak from my experiance you shouldn\'t have touched it until they had sorted there problems out first, But the difference between your problem and mine, i dropped my car off and they did the job all the ways through, i really don\'t know how you stand fitting the motor yourself?? I can imagen there is not going to be the same level of warantee as for example if they had removed, refitted and setup before you had touched it. You may find there is only a basic "repair if it has a major fault" that is down to the build as opposed to the ancillarys.
Sorry to hear about your problems. Theres not a lot I can really do to advise on getting these problems sorted with whoever has done the work. The only thing that I can say is:-if you are stuck and want a recommendation then give Carl Hayward a ring to set your car up. I know there are other good tuners about and other members will I\'m sure have their own recommendations to make. Carl is the only person I have had any dealings with and have found him to be a very knowledgable bloke. He obviously won\'t do it for nowt but he\'s a sucker for a sob story! (I\'m not taking the .... out ofyour situation).Get the car running so you are content with it then take further action afterwards if you still find it necessary. One final thing, I know you are ....ed off about the whole thing but don\'t go mentioning who it is publicly as you may .... them off altogether and get nothing from the situation but grief. I hope you can sort things amicably, Bob.M.( By the way, Carl is a man of his word and sticks by his warranties-guaranteed).
Thanks for the advice lads. What i got taught in my degree and its common sense is that "last resort go to court"
The reason i didnt make them do the warranty work is that they said that initial boost problem they said might be the bov (which it wasnt) it was more likely the rats nest where i found a few splits in pipes, the throttle body was not tight and neither were the turbo pack upon doing the install. remember i phoned them saying this engine you fitted and mapped isnt running right they picked it up and asker for 250 quid after the repair had been done. i got them to fit the engine to get the extra 6 months warranty. told them very clearly the symptoms of the problem , they hadnt even taken the uim off. they wanted this cash over the phone one evening!! if id have paid then id have gone down to find the car in the same state!! i drove the car home and gave them another 50 quid knowing they hadnt fixed the problem. i thought ill never ever go there again. They said at this point they would look at it again and if it was the bov it wouldnt be under warranty (which they would say it was as they tried that on in the first place) i wasnt prepared to risk being stung again.
then on spending 2500 on bits and fitting them many more (latent) engine related problems became apparent so much so i felt compelled to contact them again to argue my case. and i agreed to pay them 25 quid to pick the car up (it should be free!!)
I went down yesterday and argued my case. theysaid have look at 2 of the problems the thread and the oil leak. still not 100% clear if this means they will do the work under warranty. or its going to sit there for weeks then they will sting me for a bill of some sort.
They said ive done so much work to the engine bay the warranty is void
i said the warranty was worthless in that case as they didnt fix my initial problem when no work had been done.
I will be happy as long as they fix the oil leak and sort the thread. I do need a new loom though which they are having none of. they said if the crank sensor goes bye bye engine. Im like well yeah but this is your loom which i have not touched apart to get rid of the rats nest.
I will have to see what they say this week. week 3 at theirs and 6 months with a car not running properly since the 3 grand expenditure.
Ill be happy for just the oil leak and thread sorted
even happier if they supply better versions of the dodgy stuff on the engine, coil pack, harness, lim. which they wont do.
they may say this week we are not doing anything under warranty now give us 70 quid for what we have done.
In this case i can tell them " LOOK SORT MY CAR OUT!!!!!! YOU HAVE COST ME MANY WEEKENDS OF MY OWN LABOUR TRYING TO SORT YOUR MISTAKES OUT MANY MILES TRAVEL TO AND FROM YOUR PLACE. 2300 QUID IN PARTS WITH MORE TO GO MAKING THE CAR SINGLE TUB COS OF YOUR NEGLECT IN HONOURING YOUR SIDE OF THE DEAL AND IVE LINED THIER POCKETS TWICE WHEN I SHOULDNT HAVE HAD TO REPLACE THE BITS ON THE ENGINE WHICH ARE STILL FAULTY IS ANOTHER 100 QUID SAY FOR HARNESS, LIM. IF YOU DONT SORT IT OUT YOU WILL NEVER HAVE ANY OF MY BUSINESS AGAIN AND I WILL TELL EVERYBODY I MEET NEVER EVER EVER TO TRUST YOU GUYS. ALL I WANT IS AN HOUR OF THEIR LABOUR TO SORT THEIR PROBLEMS OUT AND WOULD IT HURT SO MUCH TO GIVE ME THE PARTS I NEED TO GET THE ENGINE UP TO SCRATCH WITH BITS LYING ROUND IN THE WORKSHOP?????!!!!!! IM ONLY ASKING FOR A BIT OF GIVE MY WAY\' HOURS LABOUR AND SOME JUNK BITS LYING ROUND THE SHOP.!!!
IM VERY CONCERNED WHAT THE NEXT STEP WILL BE NOW BUT I WILL KEEP YOU ALL WELL AND TRULY POSTED"
Im calm now (GASP)
ahh so they supplied a wiring loom and fitted the engine in the end
Sorry for you mate but the loom is an easy fix and some quality inline crimps can be used to replace any dodgy cable. Has the car still got the boost issue, did it go away once the single tub went on?
The most important thing after any rebuild is to after say 100 miles is to recheck all the nuts and bolts to make sure they are tight,especially exhaust and any oil or fuel unions. I know they should not come loose but it is so easy to miss something, I have done it and I was quite meticulous in what I was doing but thats still no excuse for any poor workmanship to begin with. I think that before you part with anymore money is you come to an agreement as to what any future work will cost.....or not !! I am sure that you will both come to some agreement without the legal action taking place.
As with other disputes of this nature here at MRC we have found through experience that once a person or company has made an accusation of bad workmanship or displeasure, the best way forward is to now close the thread and invite the company to answer the accusations leveled against them.
If a representative of Lindop wishes to contact team@mazdarotaryclub.com with a statement it will be put up on their behalf.
Please see below for the response sent in by Lindop Motorsport,
In our defence against DR Schnitzel, We rebuilt the engine with new housings, seals etc and ran it in one of our cars for sale we have nothing to hide.
The engine was then run in by a member of our staff for 1000 miles with no issues what so ever.
The car was then loaned out to a customer of our\'s while we had his car in for work, he used the car for many miles with no issues at all.
The engine was then sold on to DR Schnitzel, he fitted the engine himself in to the bay but then decided to bring the car down to us for us to finish off fitting it which we were more than happy to do for him.
The car was then returned back to the customer all up and running, he returned the car back to us at a later date with a slight boost issue, when we investigated the fault we removed the uim to investigate solenoid valves, wastegate control etc all ok. The car was then driven up the road by the customer with a member staff with him and he agreed the car was better and he took the car away.
The car has now returned aprox 5 months later with a big single turbo fitted, wastgate plumbed up incorrectly also using incorrect size pipe, water system plumbed up incorrectly pipe\'s blocked that shouldn\'t be blocked (fans not working customer aware), the oil leak on the engine was caused by an over heated front seal due to the engine being run too hot, customer also admitted he had run the car and the fans did not come in.
The seal itself was fitted correctly, the front main was replaced in the engine from rebuild std procedure, the contact area of the seal to the front pulley is in perfect condition which indicates it was not fitted dry, however the outer part of the seal has had heat transferred from the steel outer ring causing the rubber to melt causing the centre to pull away creating the oil leak.
We are more than happy to have an independent inspection on this engine and post the results on the forum at our own cost.
The exhaust stud issue, when we had this engine in our car we had as i said earlier loaned it out to a customer who used it for many miles and had no issues with exhaust gas leak\'s which if one of the exhaust to manifold bolts had of been loose this would of caused an obvious exhaust leak. When the customer had fitted his own turbo he has used one of the shorter studs causing damage to the threads in the housing, we supplied this engine with new housing\'s which as standard studs are fitted in to them
The loom had been soldered on to the eccentric shaft pick up sensor this was not carried out by us, when we received the car it would not even start due to one of the wires on the sensor being broken away causing no signal, and as you all know if this come\'s away when driving its a potential engine pop, how can we warrant work like this???
We have taken many pictures of the engine in its current condition and are available for viewing if required by anyone, after reading this can we warrant this work???
Thanks
//www.lindopmotorsport.com