Finally got the engine bay back together with the 850/1600 injectors. Got a slight weep on the FPR gauge, nothing too serious when stationary. Set the open to atmosphere level on the FPR to 40psi but was really struggling to get it to adjust at all !
Fired the car up and it fired up very quickly. Huge plume of bluely smoke out the back and my wideband showing its running ridiculously rich.
There is vacuum showing on the commander so the vac gauge is working.
I\'ve just swapped the air temp sensor over to a fast response one and that is showing correct temps on the commander.
I\'m getting 10% injector duty when the car tries to idle, does that sound right ?
The only thing I think I\'ve possibly done wrong is plumb the FPR in backwards. Can pressure come back up the return of a aeromotive FPR if plumbed backwards ? Would the gauge on the FPR show this up ?
I\'ve also fit an FJO injector driver on all 4 injectors, could this not be helping ?
The injectors where all brand new. They haven\'t been flowed. Have I missed a key bit of the process ? Shouldn\'t they come pre flowed if brand new ?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I\'ve got to have it MOT\'d on Monday and this has got me worried !!!
Cheers in advance
Shaun
10% injector duty at idle sounds a bit high to me. I think mine runs about 6%.
I\'ve upper the injector size on the commander to 850 / 1500 but that hasn\'t made a difference.
Shaun
I would have thought idle injector duty on primaries is going to be less that 5% for 850\'s - and nothing on the secondaries.
Did you enter lag times for the injectors - sometimes called something else and it escapes me. :confused:
You left the water temp sensor off ? - that would make it run rich
Water temp was showing 14deg, air temp was showing 10deg.
I think the 10% reading is just for the primaries. I turned it up to 1000cc and it didn\'t make a blind difference !
Just been trying to check the plumbing and it seems to pan out ok.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0263.jpg)
Bottom hose originally went to the primary rail, top hose went in to the FPR built into the secondary rail.
Can I adjust stuff like that from the commander ???
Shaun
I\'ve plugged the fuel temp sensor in but couldn\'t find the adjustment in the commander. Could this be the cause ??
Shaun
can you explain the plumbing again,
You should have a direct feed from the pump to the prim fuel rail, then out again to the secondary rail then out of the secondary rail at the end with the stock reg. It should then go to the side of the fuel reg, then out of the bottom of the reg should go back to the tank. The extra port on ours is blocked. (they are the same as yours)
I thought also that the max you could change the injectors to using the commander was 1300cc, any higher and you need to use datalogit.
did you keep in the fuel temp sensor from the secondary rail? I know you were talking about a solution for that. Otherwise you would need to change that on the map
maximum size secondaries will go on commander is 1500cc. Higher than that and you need datalogit. However, at idle secondaries have no bearing on anything, they don\'t get used.
i eliminated the fuel sensor and didnt make any adjustments and it seemed fine. Also IIRC 1500cc or 1600cc is the biggest you can set the injector size to on the commander.
posted at the same time as NikP
Hang on dude, I think you\'re plumbing\'s wrong.
I can\'t see that well from the piccy but from your description...
If you are running the rails in series you should have flow from the pump to primary rail, then secondary, then FPR.
If you are running in parallel, as i think you are, you should have a line from the pump side of things which then splits with a feed to each rail. This each of the outlets from the rails should go into one of the side ports on the FPR.
The bottom port should then lead to the return line. It looks like you may have put the inlet from the fuel lines into the bottom port, which is the return.
thats what i thought but as you say its hard to see from the picture.
I would just run in series, much easier and works well even for huge power cars, also less likely to have leak with less joins
Its in series but the pickup for the lines is off the original hard lines that go under the Ignition coils.
Thought it didn\'t matter which line it goes through first ?? It goes into the secondary (from the front) then it goes through the primary then onto the FPR. One of the sides is blocked off and the return goes back to the hardline.
I think I need to adjust the PFC. Do I need to globally reduce the fueling table for the larger injectors. What does the injector size do in the injector menu ?
Cheers for the advise guys. Need to get it fixed !!!!
Shaun
Picture from the front :
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0268.jpg)
Shaun
Been having a read about injector pulse timing which prof talked about :
http://www.clubrx.org/media/pfc/PowerFC_FD3S.pdf
I think I need to do some corrections !!
Need the Primary at 64.7% and secondaries at 78.1%.
Not sure what the lag time difference is though ?????
Shaun
Shaun,
You have made it really complicated.
Do as Tony said,put the fuel feed from the tank to the primary rail,then to the secondary rail and from that to the regulator with the other one blocked,then the bottom of regulator to the return line.
Injector settings should be 64.7% for primaries,and leave secondaires at 100%
Set fuel pressure to around 30 psi,then also take some fuel on the commander out of the cells in the idle zone.
After this get the car mapped proffessionaly.
BTW it is just my opinion,but I think think your regulator should be moved to just above where the fuel line return pipe is near/below the inlet elbow on the throttle,there is far too much going on too near the hot side of the engine with all of those connections and you don\'t want a fuel leak over there.
Regards
Carl
i was going to say if you have changed your primarys to 850\'s it sounds like it just needs mapping,
The Apexi does a good job of recalculating the fuel cells when you adjust the size of injectors (when properly setup), so it shouldn\'t need too much fettling with for the idle zone.
Cheers guys, wouldn\'t it be as complicated regardless if its going into the primary or secondary first when in series?? I can swap it around easily.
I\'d copied the CJR fuel system setup for placement of the FPR. It isn\'t too much of a hassle to move that too.
Got it running with the apexi set at 65%. Will set the secondaries back to 100%. Fixed the leak on the fpr.
Just a cobble together at the minute, car needs to be mot\'d before the end of the month. Got a heavier spring for the wastegate and water injection to go on before it gets tuned. Car won\'t get used after until its tuned properly !
Cheers
Shaun
Right quicky update. Raised atmosphere pressure to 30psi on the FPR. Gave it a quick run round the block and I\'m seeing 13.5-14 on light throttle and 11 on idle.
I can\'t see any other leaks and it should be good for the mot !
Cheers
Shaun
13.5-14.....injector duty? Or AFRs?
AFR on wideband :D
Shaun
Should be leaner on idle. I have 13.0 on idle (Once warmed up). I reckon it could go a little leaner too. But 13.0 seems good. 11.0 is a little too rich (Which confirms the idle duty time you are seeing)
I\'ve added another psi to the FPR just to make sure it stays rich off idle. Should be ok to get it to the garage and back and the run to pips. Just not the best time for the tax and mot to be due !!
Shaun
Quote from: nikp;586538Should be leaner on idle. I have 13.0 on idle (Once warmed up). I reckon it could go a little leaner too. But 13.0 seems good. 11.0 is a little too rich (Which confirms the idle duty time you are seeing)
knock too much fuel out and the engine will struggle to have stable idle, but agree with you once warm they can go leaner. If you\'ve got a warm start map or something on the Apexi - to add fuel in when the water temps are cold - that should cover it.
I\'m more worried about the bit up to 3k. It should be safe to get me to the garage and to pips.
Should be getting mapped soon, as long as I get the other stuff on the car fitted. It won\'t move after today until it gets remapped !
Shaun
shaun, you can use the water temp correction to adjust the fueling for each water temp bracket.
Quote from: Prof;586606knock too much fuel out and the engine will struggle to have stable idle, but agree with you once warm they can go leaner. If you\'ve got a warm start map or something on the Apexi - to add fuel in when the water temps are cold - that should cover it.
Yes, you can correct for a cold engine. Plus the cold start valve thingy keeps the revs higher while it\'s cold, so you should be fine.
For some reason, when the engine went back in on mine last year, the cold start didn\'t work, so i have to keep the engine going myself until it\'s warmed up to about 30 degrees or so - otherwise it struggles to idle.
Well got back from the garage. Just tootled there and back and every things fine.
Got to fix the FB though !!!!
Shaun
Hi Shaun,
Does that mean the FD passed its MOT ?
Chris
Was just about to say on 850 primary when warm I see duty at 3.2% to 3.3%
Yes it passed. Went to a rotor friendly garage !
Shaun
When idling with 850 you may have to set the injector lag to a minus figure, iv had success with -0.04 on 850\'s as primary\'s to lean the idle afr\'s out.
BTW this then effects the whole map so you then need to get your car remaped
Shauwil, I\'ve ordered an FJO injector driver, do you have any pictures of your install?
A step-by-step guide would be pretty useful, I think, and I\'m sure the Mods wouldn\'t mind making it sticky.
Its not too bad an install. Good working knowledge of soldering will help :Giggle
The installation sheet helps and the wiring diagram B-1b for the engine control system will tell you which wires go where ! I haven\'t any real pictures as it went along but its not too bad. More time consuming than anything !
Shaun
I have another question. Where did you mount the Injector driver box?
Its mounted on the firewall between the ABS and Boost sensor. Quick image :
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0269.jpg)
Seemed like a good location away from heat. Was considering moving the FPR in the same area.
Shaun
aaaah that\'s exactly where I thought of putting it.