this is a long one, but fully \'documented\'
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SITUATION: so driving up to gloucester for the mini meet, after an hour and bit driving my stock temp is horizontal, greddy temp jumps to 100C ish, then bit high to 110C so i pull over n let it cool.
thinking it might be low on coolant (the rad light pops up every now and again even if the level is full) i take the rad cap off when cool and add water. was only a cup full or so, which replaced some coolant that came out the reserve tank earlier in day.
so after the meet i was on my way home when the temp rose to about 100C quite quicky and i was only doing 60mph. so driving along at 60mph, all of a sudden i see my screen covered in water*
pulled over to hard shoulder n turned engine off. opened hood and the rad hose had literally split in 1/2!
**jus something funny but can skip this if tis too much to read**
traffic officer (to) arrives to see if everything is ok
to: we saw the water back there.. blown headgasket?
me: eh.. :3Confused scratched head... lol
***
VITAL INFO BEFORE POP: driving along at 60mph, stock temp was horizontal, greddy temp 100C, coolant level was full when i started car.
i thought it was just a weak hose but that wouldnt make the temp hot unless there was a leak n loosing coolant. after talking to chris he mention the system was pressurised. i then did some research n came up with either of the following 3 causes.
1) the rad cap is faulty. coolant was able to leave the system and go to the reserve / expansion tank but i nvr noticed coolant going back into the system from the reserve tank.
2) faulty thermostat. maybe the thermostat sensor was buggered and closed causing the system to be over pressurised? i thought that this would cuase the stock temp sensor to increase, but then the greddy temp was only 100C so still withing the stock \'normal\' temp range
3) all of the above
so, can any gd engineering place pressure test a rad cap?
is it best to replace the thermostat with a brand new one or is 2nd hand ok? ( i got a spare 2nd hand one kicking about from when my water mump broke)
anyone got any ideas what else it can be?
lastly, replacing the rad hose (upper part) would it be best to keep using stock hose or go for shiney hard pipe? thinking if i went for shiney hard pipe then if this happens again then the tube wont break n it could damage the seams in the rad instead thus being a more expensive fix?!
*on a side note, the vented bonnet does actually work at pulling air out from engine bay! this was tested / proved as my water pipe broke n all the water came out the vents and only about 30% (if that) of the water stayed in the engine bay
100 - hummm i very rarely saw those figures on my gauge - i used to panic around the 95 mark
it used to sit around 85-88 ish
could be the thermostat is a higher rated one ??
must be some pressure to blow a hose in half though :(
? stuck thermostat or blown water seal pressurising the system?
Blown water seal? Where about?
Its usually 80-90.
Sat at 100 for bout 15min prior to breaking.
Will try put pic of blown pipe tmr. It is literally blown in 1/2.
Still, better that than rad breaking.
Will play with thermostat tmr.
How do i test if it works? Stick in hot water with DMM attached?
Is there a way of testing the water system on a FC would like to know mine is ok before I go trashing it around a track..
Like water seals etc if it is pressurised??
Would be interested to see the out come of this too since my temp gauge rose on the drive home from collecting it in heavy traffic, but I think this was due to a faulty therostat the fan didnt kick in:(
The 1st thing you want to do is to drain the system fully. Put a hose in the top of the rad and pressure wash the internals out through the lower hose connector. It might be a blocked rad. Next flush the engine and see what comes out.
Replace your thermostat
Replace or check your rad cap
Check your water pump or replace
For something to blow your hose apart means you must have a blockage, these standard hoses are dam fine bits of hose and very thick, I can send you another one if you want it, i have several, just PM your address again, just pay for postage.
Anyway you may want to fiund out what is blocked or causing too much pressure within the system.
The problem in the winter with old hoses and high temps is that they can split due to the temperature difference, perhaps your rad hose was starting to go and just happened 2 go as it got hot? I think it might be a faulty thermostat as they are rather old! hope you get it sorted!
easy fix is to take the thermostat out and see what happens (after you have flushed your system)
it sounds like your water seals have gone in the engine and are pressurising the water system. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but exactly the same happened to me. Thats why you also blew the seal on your water pump. It will just continue to blow the weakest link.
Carl is the man for a rebuild if you are not doing this yourself, he has given me a very good price and far cheaper than i thought. That was for an engine block only delivered. He actually stripped mine down in front of me to show what was wrong. Thankfully if its just a water seal then everything should be in good condition if you have lowish miles then a refresh only might do the trick.
Whats the approximate cost of a cooling system overhaul??
sounds like time for.....heavier porting :D
Quote from: antnicuk;578341it sounds like your water seals have gone in the engine and are pressurising the water system. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but exactly the same happened to me. Thats why you also blew the seal on your water pump. It will just continue to blow the weakest link.
thanks.. i was hopeing no-one would say that :(
fact of life i guess :(:(
it was behaving fine aft i got the waterpump replaced. only little anoying thing was the rad light came on once in a while and lost a tiny amount of coolant. tiny as in 1/2 a cup or so
Quote from: m1tch;578315The problem in the winter with old hoses and high temps is that they can split due to the temperature difference, perhaps your rad hose was starting to go and just happened 2 go as it got hot? I think it might be a faulty thermostat as they are rather old! hope you get it sorted!
the pipe was good condition from what i can make of it. it wasnt brittle n looked fine on outside.
i could be wrong.
Quote from: pdtaylor18;578313The 1st thing you want to do is to drain the system fully. Put a hose in the top of the rad and pressure wash the internals out through the lower hose connector. It might be a blocked rad. Next flush the engine and see what comes out.
Replace your thermostat
Replace or check your rad cap
Check your water pump or replace
For something to blow your hose apart means you must have a blockage, these standard hoses are dam fine bits of hose and very thick, I can send you another one if you want it, i have several, just PM your address again, just pay for postage.
Anyway you may want to fiund out what is blocked or causing too much pressure within the system.
thanks pete. how are you ment to pressure wash the rad? as if u put a hose in the rad n turn up the water then it\'ll squirt out the side as theres nothing sealing the hose to rad.
where to stick the hose when you flush the engine?
i got spare thermostat but nt sure how gd that is.
i did coolant change not long ago, was b4 water pump was replaced.. maybe when he changed the pump he got some crap (sealant) into the system?!
Quote from: antnicuk;578341it sounds like your water seals have gone in the engine and are pressurising the water system. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but exactly the same happened to me. Thats why you also blew the seal on your water pump. It will just continue to blow the weakest link.
oh.. what are the other symptoms of water seal failure? if any?
Quote from: m1tch;578396sounds like time for.....heavier porting :D
:chat:chat:chat thats the only plus side that will come out of this if its a blown water seal :Laugh:Laugh:Laugh
but what ports..?
mild / large?
secondaries only..?
bridge port..?
its only a weekend car really =p
thanks everyone for their input.. will go and flush rad & engine when i have time & still how to check thermostat is working ok?
cheers =)
all you are checking for on a rad at this stage is that water is able to flow through it freely, a pressure check is something else. With the engine you can go through the top and out via the bottom hose and also dont forget to flush out through your drain point by the passenger side engine mount. This may well be all in vain as reading back at your problems with water I think you have been masking water loss but you have nothing to lose and at least you can discount the above before spending hard earned cash on rebuild.
The hose I \'ll send you. You will need one anyway.
have a look in your oil fill cap and see how much mayo is in there, you will sometimes get a bit, also see how quick it pressurises from cold as it should take a fair bit of time,if its too quick then it could be that its being pressurisewd from within.
PM sent as well
You definitely have a leak somewhere - whether it\'s the water seals or not will only be known for sure if you take the engine out and get it apart.
However, before doing something so drastic, there are some things you can check:
If it is the water seals going/gone then any or all of the below may happen:
1) Pressurized coolant - whilst the engine is running, the coolant will be forced back into the expansion bottle and may even \'boil\' out of the exit pipe from there.
2) You can get a chemical check done on the coolant to check for combustion products, their presence indicates a failure.
3) Check for mayo in the oil filler cap - the resulting froth from mixing oil and water will work it\'s way to the top.
4) Whitish and sweet smelling smoke from the exhaust on startup - when the engine is starting and first runs, it will draw some of the coolant into the engine and out through the exhaust - the resulting steam smells sweet because of the antifreeze.
It could be a leak somewhere else in the system - and not the water seals - you should check the following:
1) Coolant pipe from the back of the water pump to the BAC valve
2) Line from the BAC to the throttle body
3) Line from throttle body to engine block (this is underneath the throttle body, but you may be able to see it with a small torch as you have no top mount intercooler now - look from the back (bulkhead side).
4) Coolant line that runs from midway down the engine block on the passenger side into bulkhead for the heater matrix
5) Return line that come from bulkhead back to the lower radiator inlet.
6) Heater Matrix could be leaking - check for sweet smelling damp patches on the carpets in the footwells.
7) Check both top and bottom rad hoses and their joins - it\'s not uncommon to lose coolant from the bottom one - as it\'s harder to get to and doesn\'t get tightened up properley.
8) Check the radiator for leaks - you could have coolant weeping out of the rad.
Hi, I hate to say it but reading your post it does sound like your water seal may have gone, you can pop it down to us and we can take a look at it for you if this helps or we do offer a car collection service as it might pay not to drive it. Cheers
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i had a look inside the pipe and saw a 2" long crack on the inside of the pipe on the opposite side of the split.
have taken the thermostat out and it moves as it should against the spring. so i dont think that is to blame =(
will flush system out prob tmr when i have more time n look for leaks.
failing that, will go garage n get system pressure tested. this will also indicate if exhaust gasses are getting in cooling system.
then take it from there.
Prof:
1) from what i remember coolant did boil out of the expansion tank when it first overheated. the expansion tank was literally boiling.
2) asked my local garage about chemical check but they cant do it. can only pressure check the system.
3) no mayo on rad cap
4) i didnt recall it smelling particularly sweet.. but then i do have a sweet tooth so if i didnt think it was sweet then maybe it might be sweet to others. does smell on fuel on idle though.
*fingers crossed*
*still hoping that its not water seal*
*worst case scenario.. ported engine ;p *
what a poo start to 2009 and the chinese new year!
At least its all uphill from here though!!
*chants* porting porting porting :D I now have a 54mm flywheel socket lol
Quote from: LINDOP MOTORSPORT;578482Hi, I hate to say it but reading your post it does sound like your water seal may have gone, you can pop it down to us and we can take a look at it for you if this helps or we do offer a car collection service as it might pay not to drive it. Cheers
thanks for the info.. let me look into it and can get back to you later if need be =)
Quote from: pdtaylor18;578593At least its all uphill from here though!!
the only thing that wont be goin up are my stack of $$$ lol
mitch: yes yes. you DONT have to tell me twice!!! :Giggle
if it is water seal then def porting!!! but where n how big.. i dont know :3Confused
if i go HUGE then i might as well go bigger fmic / v mount etc.. but unfortunatly for me the term \'money is no object\' does NOT apply to me =\'(
just out of interest.. if the water seals are gone.. what are the chances its just the gaskets thats gone rather than problems with the actual housing?
finally got round to flushing the cooling system.. the rad flows ok.. but when i did the engine side.. i stuck the hose where the top rad pipe goes n water came straight out where the lower rad goes almost instantaneously.
is that right?
errr yeah i think so - the water channels arent that big - so its not as if you are filling the housings up first and then it flushing thru
did a load of crap come out with flushing it
and whilst you are messing - time to get the toothbrush out and give the engine bay a good clean
Quote from: grinder;579781errr yeah i think so - the water channels arent that big - so its not as if you are filling the housings up first and then it flushing thru
did a load of crap come out with flushing it
and whilst you are messing - time to get the toothbrush out and give the engine bay a good clean
no crap came out as expected as i only flushed it 2 mths ago and water pump was replaced about a mth ago.
time to fit the rad pipes back n go garage for pressure test etc..
thanks :)
you need to reconnect the bottom hose Liam and then flush via the top hose, it will end up very wet everywhere but you should see a good flow from the engine block drain. You should ideally get a flow out of there as soon as you undo it, if you do then its probably ok anyway.
thats a point Pete
out of interest - do you have an aftermarket water temp gauge - and if so - where is it located in the engine bay
one way i could tell that my thermostat was working is that you could drive along - the incar temp gauge would get to temp ( and the extra gauge showing 0 ) and then all of a sudden it would rise up to 85 as the thermostat opened and allowed the water thru the top hose
if your gauge ( if you had one ) showed the water temp slowly climb to 85 , then i would assume you have a knackered thermostat ( if it rose slowly - then its stuck open )
thanks pete.. will go reconnect the lower hose and flush again.
a couple pics of thermostats.
the old one has no rubber on the inner ring. not sure if thats just the design or not.
i got aftermarket temp. its on the top rad hose just after the thermostat
that usually shoots up n shows at about 60degrees onwards.
will use the \'new\' thermostat n see what happens..
pete.. im assuming flush from top hose being on rad side as its higher than engine side.
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ok.. system all flushed now and back in \'one\' piece.
nurtured her to the garage, was popping a bit prob cos she was sat still for a week tho she nvr popped b4, and got to wait for the when he got time to test the cooling system n wait for the results. new thermostat put in and rad pipe thanks to pete! :)
aftermarket sensor wire came apart again! need to get a new one, can you just buy the sensor with gauge?
in some ways hoping for it to be just a bust thermostat.. but on the other hand looking forward to a \'little\' bit of porting bar the costs involved :mad:
lets see what faith gives me :)