Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => I. C. E. & Electrical => Topic started by: willanddeb on December 27, 2008, 01:30:08 PM

Title: Speakers
Post by: willanddeb on December 27, 2008, 01:30:08 PM
Hi
 
I am thinking of replacing the old stock speakers in the car but want to still keep them under the original covers. I was hoping to use 6x9 in the back and maybe 6x8 in the front.
 
how hard is it to get at the speakers and are there any particular ones that people recommend, I just want to upgrade them as they are a little tired now.
 
Many thanks
 
Will :)
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on December 27, 2008, 01:45:10 PM
any of the major makes will fit dont pay to much for quality as the car makes to much noise and frequencys clash so sound is more  of a fill than quality
 
i have made adaptors for different speakers in the rex you might have to for something decent
Title: Speakers
Post by: willanddeb on December 27, 2008, 01:53:27 PM
Cheers it would just be nice to get something that can handle a little more bass without crackling. I think the old ones have had it
 
Thanks very much.
 
Will (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif)
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on December 27, 2008, 01:55:06 PM
if you remove the rear grills and dont mind some fabrication 6x9s go in there and with a little adjustment on the front you could get a set of 6" co axle speakers thats a start
Title: Speakers
Post by: willanddeb on December 27, 2008, 02:48:11 PM
That sounds like a good plan to me, I am not someone who like to go around with music thumping out from the car. I just like it to sound good and like you said 6x9 in the back and 6" in the front would probably do me just fine, and it wouldn\'t put to much strain on the head unit.
 
Cheers
 
Will (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif)
Title: Speakers
Post by: probedb on December 28, 2008, 09:52:06 AM
I think mine are 165mm in the front or whatever that equates to in inches :) I believe I fitted Alpine SPS-171A components in the front and removed the rears completely.
Title: Speakers
Post by: willanddeb on December 28, 2008, 03:28:57 PM
Hmmmmmm how does that sound??  our little Citroen C1 only has front speakers and it sounds pants!! (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif)
Title: Speakers
Post by: chrisJDM on December 28, 2008, 04:17:11 PM
i think the standard fitment in the rear of a FD is 5x7\'s and thats what i have fitted, i have heard of quite a few modifying to fit 6x9\'s thou
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on December 28, 2008, 05:01:53 PM
8" x 4" rears.  The brackets are OK, but don\'t seperate the front from the rear - if you can seal & port them, you\'ll get a better response.

6" front - these are sealed, and will show a much better sound.

If you can get coax for the front, and mids for the rear, you will get a better sound stage (although the positioning of the front speakers mean you\'ll get a great sound at your knees....)
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on December 28, 2008, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: Archbish;5690688" x 4" rears. The brackets are OK, but don\'t seperate the front from the rear - if you can seal & port them, you\'ll get a better response.
 
6" front - these are sealed, and will show a much better sound.
 
If you can get coax for the front, and mids for the rear, you will get a better sound stage (although the positioning of the front speakers mean you\'ll get a great sound at your knees....)

 
 
how do you seal and port a speaker at the same time ???????????
 
and why puts mids in the rears right next to your ears that will make the audio sound flat ???????????
 
 
not sure if you know rx 7s but the exhaust is loud the last thing you need is more mid
Title: Speakers
Post by: m1tch on December 28, 2008, 07:51:01 PM
The standard speakers in my FC are carbon fibre...I win :D
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on December 28, 2008, 08:11:22 PM
Quote from: batman;569126how do you seal and port a speaker at the same time ???????????
By moulding fibreglass round the bracket and porting it to the rear of the boot, thus seperating the front and rear of the speaker, and removing the mash of noise.
 
Quoteand why puts mids in the rears right next to your ears that will make the audio sound flat ???????????
So the soundstage is in front of you, and not behind you.  Tweeters higher up the door works well.
 
 
Quotenot sure if you know rx 7s but the exhaust is loud
Seriously????  Since when???  You wanna slap your own forehead, or do you want a hand...:2Rolleyes


Quotethe last thing you need is more mid
well, you don\'t want more tweet, as that would confuse the source, you won\'t get bass from speakers that size, so you would only get mid\'s there.
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on December 28, 2008, 08:12:24 PM
Quote from: Archbish;5690688" x 4" rears.  

Oh, I think these might be 6" x 4" actually.  *Slaps forehead, without help*
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on December 28, 2008, 08:26:16 PM
or 7 x 5" as stated above... *starting to get a headache...*
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on December 28, 2008, 09:53:28 PM
talking absolute tosh mate ................ive been in car audio for 14 years all as an engineer and never heard such rubish .ported is ported and sealed is sealed
if you want to get technical about things why dont you find out what the resonance frequency of the rx7 is and match a speaker to it good luck .
 
sound stage wtf its a bloody sports car not the ....ing albert hall
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on December 28, 2008, 10:18:24 PM
been in car audio 14 years?  I haven\'t met anyone with a 14 year career in Halfords before!!  Do you get a gold plated wheel trim?? *grin*

so you\'re suggesting that a free air mounted speaker is as good as one where the air vibration is seperate between the rear and face of the speaker...??

Quoteblah blah technical blah blah resonance frequency blah blah speaker blah
Such a pointedly over the top comment deserves the scorn thrust in it\'s direction...
So, grab indignant handcream, and...
What you\'d need is the driver located at one end of the transmission line and ensure the cross-sectional area is monotonically varied based on a taper
ratio m and the exponential area equation sourced from your ketchup bottle.  For a straight-line geometry monopoly = 0 and this is equivalent to the test line geometry shown in the top hat at Park Lane, with an open or a closed end boundary condition at the hotel foyer.
In most transmission line designs, the driver is not all the way at one end of the parking zone and the cross-sectional area is much more complicated with changes in area occurring at several locations along the line’s.... continued intellectual lubricated stimulation
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on December 28, 2008, 10:43:10 PM
Quote from: willanddeb;568785I was hoping to use 6x9 in the back and maybe 6x8 in the front.
So anyways, stockers are (as above) 5x7 rear, and 6" fronts.  Mids or coaxials are up to you... *grin*
Quote from: willanddeb;568785how hard is it to get at the speakers
Not that hard.  The front ones are easy to get to once the door cards are off, and are on a baffle mounty things.  You may need to tweak these to get it to fit.  Shallow speakers in the front make life easier (I know Kenwood used to do them, and I\'m sure many other brands will).  The rear ones can be got at through the grill, but you\'ll need some spare finger bends to get at teh screws.  Otherwise it\'s loosening the trim to get at the tin mounts.
Quoteand are there any particular ones that people recommend
I replaced mine with Directed speakers as I couldn\'t find 5x7 I was happy with when I did mine in my first RX7 back in 2000. you may be able to find one\'s that are better rated now - I\'ve not got to that point in my second one yet, but those in my first are still going strong and sounding good...

Good luck, and enjoy your work!!
Title: Speakers
Post by: willanddeb on December 28, 2008, 11:06:46 PM
Thanks people even if the thread did seem to get a little heated :eek
 
But anyway, really appreciate all the help, just need to wait till the January sales to try and see if I can get a bargain. Cos sods law says if I get them now, they will only end up cheaper in the sales!!! :D
 
Cheers People
 
Regards
 
Will.
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on December 28, 2008, 11:18:54 PM
no worries.  Have a poke at //www.caraudiodirect.com - seem to have had good prices in the past, and been very helpful and constructive.
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on December 28, 2008, 11:46:01 PM
not heated will and deb just amazed at what rubish some people talk .
you get sound in your car quality isnt an issiue really the exhaust note will mess with the sound /bass in the car any ways it amounts to something to listen to
 
oh and arch bish i run my own ausio business thanks not halfords keep trying pal
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on December 28, 2008, 11:47:02 PM
what kinda business??? *grin*  And you still think it\'s ok for the waves at the front of the speaker and rear of the speaker to not be kept separate?  You aren\'t planning to retire any time soon, are you......
Title: Speakers
Post by: eddiedwards on January 11, 2009, 10:17:27 PM
Why not go the whole hog and get mids, tweets and crossovers up front, 6x9\'s in the rear, amp up the mids and tweets, get a sub in the boot ( only a little one) get it amped up. you dont have to have it bangin out but you will get a nice sound.
 
just my thoughts
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on January 12, 2009, 09:54:02 AM
Quote from: Archbish;569238what kinda business??? *grin* And you still think it\'s ok for the waves at the front of the speaker and rear of the speaker to not be kept separate? You aren\'t planning to retire any time soon, are you......

im sorry your pants muffled what your trying to say ill i heard was b s
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on January 12, 2009, 10:03:22 AM
two weeks later, and that\'s it???  COME ON, you can do better than that!!

Or

Yeah, well your mum smells bad, and you have horrid trousers.
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on January 12, 2009, 11:26:09 AM
thanks for the info there arch im offering help you obviously just came for an argument so little boy why dont you just run along and go play with your tractors or something all i have to say  any more audio help needed pm s might be less stressfull >:)
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on January 12, 2009, 11:37:23 AM
See, that\'s better!!  not great, but a big improvement. *grin*

Obviously, if anyone wants more help than "don\'t spend too much money cos it\'ll sound crap anyway", they probably shouldn\'t bother contacting you.  Otherwise, if anyone wants help & tricks in custom fibreglass subwoofer installs, and cheap but practical ways to improve the sound in your cabin without (a) costing a fortune or (b) weighing 2 tons, I\'m happy to help... *grin*
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on January 12, 2009, 11:51:12 AM
"yawns"
 
 got a link to some of your work arch id love a laugh i mean look
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on January 12, 2009, 12:04:12 PM
(http://www.archbish.com/Pics/bish11.jpg)
The amp on the left is the multichannel amp to the main speakers in the car.  The one on the right is bridged to supply the two subs.
(http://www.archbish.com/Pics/bish13.jpg)
the subs are wired to ensure they push and pull at the same time.  The box feeds into the boot, and is 55 litres - the right volume for a sealed enclosure.

Obviously, compromise has to be had, as you\'ve brusquely stated previously, but this is a marked improvement over the stock stuff.
My requirements were:
- needed to retain as much of the boot as possible.  Hence not firing the subs toward the rear, but having them mounted and aimed at the body of the cabin.
- snappy sharp bass, rather than thumpy SPL.  Worked well (it was the third effort to be fair)
- not to increase the weight too much
- to be easily removed to allow greater boot volume.

So go on, what\'s wrong with it then.  And (at the unlikely risk that you are some idiot savant with stereo installs, and have numerous trophies and international godlike reputation for quality and innovative ideas and workmanship.  Although I suspect the "savant" part can go... *Grin*), can we see some of your paid work?
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on January 12, 2009, 12:14:38 PM
(http://www.archbish.com/First%20Gen/Weekend11+/DSC00338-408.jpg)
and here\'s an early cut of the box that\'s going into the 1st gen.  Half for sub box, other half for water inj bladder and battery box.  What could possibly go wrong with that... *grin*
(http://www.archbish.com/pics/ppc%20pics/OJ_RX718sm.jpg)
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on January 12, 2009, 12:16:11 PM
wow thats b e a utiful love the use of cloth not leather to continue the flow of the standard bespoke fitting nice trimming to good job. i know where ill be taking my car .....
 
 
machine mart !
 
pmsl
 
 
 and yes a little from me dont want to post to much as it could be seen as advertising and i dont want to pee lisa off again but you asked so i shall ..
 
this is some of out customers work little paid as its about audio not sales so ill keep the show content to myself but this is some normal customers work
leather door builds in audi a4
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/ascaudio/doorpod6.jpg)
fibreglass dash for tv unit in 300z replacing aircont unit and standard radio
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/ascaudio/Image021.jpg)
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on January 12, 2009, 12:20:09 PM
and last but not least a full build colour coded using fibre glass raised amps on stainless board with all the cable hidden in the poles and reses for simple look
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/ascaudio/Image382.jpg)
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on January 12, 2009, 12:22:57 PM
and that will do for the subject this forum has had  enough i think end off
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on January 12, 2009, 12:30:40 PM
That last one is really, really cool!  not practical, but if that\'s what the customer wanted, then you really delivered it - well done.   (although the nice red bit on the boot is a bit naff - presumably that\'s sorted now?  But that\'s the only problem I would raise)

Other bits - yeah, nice and slick. *lol*  (a) You actually took those photo\'s to show your work and (b) you think they\'re good enough to use???  Seriously tho, the majority of the last install is very impressive

otherwise, I take your points about the cloth & trim (ran out of time - got a proper job *grin*), but if that\'s the biggest criticism, then cool!  Thanks for the vote of confidence!!

oh, and it\'s "end of", not "end off".  Do pay attention. *grin*
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on January 12, 2009, 12:41:43 PM
all our work is individual and what the customer asks for they get .we dont sell to them we advise whats best or whats needed .
the photos are use as a basis to show examples of work being an engineer i didnt have time to dust the work shop clean everything and check for lighting levels the pics are as they are .but the work speaks for its self and always has
and just to make you happy the red bit is where the body shop missed the re spray not us but the black boot seal covers that now sorted .
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on January 12, 2009, 12:53:54 PM
I\'m sorry, I wasn\'t clear.  I wasn\'t mocking the cleanliness, but that those were what you chose to show your work...
I particularly like this one (nothing like a bit of stealth):
(http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/ascaudio/Image095-1.jpg)
or this one (Duck Tape - everyone\'s friend):
(http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/ascaudio/Image094.jpg)
no wonder you kept photo\'s of that lot!!
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on January 12, 2009, 01:02:25 PM
really arch some one ban this bloke starting to get silly now !
 
those pics are on the web site as customers cars and the tape is to show that even behind the scenes the wiring is still tidy ,
 
now i love the attention your giving me but enoughs enough arch get a life or pic up a hoby your getting a little tiresome now would  a mod like to close this thread ???
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on January 12, 2009, 01:11:32 PM
Well, if you will keep replying, whaddya expect???  And I\'m rewiring an entire car, and wouldn\'t do it like that - it\'s crap!  mind you, it is my car, so spending a bit more effort.

Been here a LOT longer than you have chief, and hardly ever argue - maybe it\'s not me...  And you want me banned for disagreeing with you?  Doesn\'t work that way dude, but I\'m happy enough for this thread to be thinned/deleted.  

btw, if you want a mod to do it, pm them, or report the thread.

Love and hugs

Bish
Title: Speakers
Post by: MaLicE on January 12, 2009, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: batman;573884and last but not least a full build colour coded using fibre glass raised amps on stainless board with all the cable hidden in the poles and reses for simple look
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/ascaudio/Image382.jpg)


not meaning to pick holes... but are the speakers on the shelf sealed?? as i thought it was a big no no to run unsealed speakers in to a boot like that as the subs will distort or change the sound coming from the speakers?? but then im no expert...
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on January 12, 2009, 01:58:40 PM
good point malice the rears werent connected the customer had a very big build in the front doors and didnt want these operating just for show ???? strange but thats how it is ....
 
 
and arch i keep replying because you keeps saying silly thing that either dont make sense or are pointless . whats the difference between you being here a long time or two weeks your critisism is pointless and your making your self sound like a dick im sure your a very nice guy deep down but lets be honest you tryed it on called my bluff and what ive shown you has shut you up .
id love to show you more but the celebs i have on my customer list wouldnt be happy that im sharing their info with you on a public forum not to mention increase the chance of thieves reading the contents of cars and going shopping .!
 
im deaply flattered you went to the trouble of finding my website and reposting the pictures for me thanks again for the publicity .
as for re wireing a car good for you not a hard job haynes supply the good s for any one to do so but thanks for taking time out from saving the universe to comment on my pics ps did some researching and found you at your comand center >:) bless him
 
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/ascaudio/computer_nerd__Limpet_21.jpg)
Title: Speakers
Post by: L18M on January 12, 2009, 02:26:21 PM
i like the blue install with the \'floating\' amps
either of you guys wanna have a lil competition..? im thinking of doing a custom install in the back of my fc. gotta fit
15" L7 Kicker
2 medium size amps
wanna use the whole boot for the install and if poss have some storage space for oil n some crap (think will have to access the boot via folding the rear seats down but its a small sacrifice)
i\'d welcome any designs =)
[ps u might say 15" L7 is bit too big for fc but hey.. thats wot i like ;p ]
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on January 12, 2009, 02:29:12 PM
See, now THAT\'s a better reply - well done...

So, another reply which you didn\'t want to do, and wanted the thread shut - make your mind up, honey...!!  

anyways, lets look at your reply closer, shall we:

point A - THAT\'S HILARIOUS!!  The only install that looked any good is one that you\'ve stated is crap.  Brilliant, thanks for reinforcing my conclusion (btw, it\'s MY job to make you look daft, not yours...  Appreciate the help tho)

Point B - again, I\'ve not made my implied argument simple enough, so lets have another bash (right, shorter words, typed slower...).  I rarely argue with people.  I know lots of people here that know I rarely argue.  So if I\'m arguing with you, maybe it\'s not me that\'s the dick...  

Point C - when did I try to call your bluff?  You asked me to show you pics of what I\'d done, so I did with the only pics I had.  It\'s pretty clear that shown side by side, my stuff is way ahead of the majority of the pics you put up.  And it isn\'t for \'show\' - it actually sounds good too.  Oh, and it hasn\'t shut me up, batty.

Point D - not a lot of trouble and photobucket it isn\'t your website :2Rolleyes  Had a good chortle at some of the other stuff on there too - nice pummell stick! *grin*

Point E - bless, implied namedropping...  These celebs that have saxos/106s (whatever the blue thing is?) is it?  That\'s pathetic *lmao*

Point F - Tis great that you think it\'s good that those show the standard of your work...  Must be of great reassurance for those that were going to book you.  Again, you missed the point of the re-wiring of the car - no chance in hell I\'d duct tape up lengths of wire (I really didn\'t think I\'d have to make it so simple for you...).  They should be the right length, zip tied at regular intervals, with proper ties that attach to the bodywork.  

Point G - Ooooooh, nasty suggested pic of lil\' ol\' me.  I TAKE IT ALL BACK, YOU\'RE A GENIUS OF EPIC PROPORTIONS.  I BOW DOWN BEFORE INSTALLER EXTRAORDINAIRE.  YOU ARE A HERO AMONGST MERE MORTALS.  BATARD - HERO OF THE CAR STEREO:Giggle

So, that\'s probably the longest post I\'ve done for a while, but wanted to make sure you had my full focus.:Talking1:Giggle
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on January 12, 2009, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: BBCFC;573925i like the blue install with the \'floating\' amps
either of you guys wanna have a lil competition..? im thinking of doing a custom install in the back of my fc. gotta fit
15" L7 Kicker
2 medium size amps
wanna use the whole boot for the install and if poss have some storage space for oil n some crap (think will have to access the boot via folding the rear seats down but its a small sacrifice)
i\'d welcome any designs =)
[ps u might say 15" L7 is bit too big for fc but hey.. thats wot i like ;p ]
Honestly, check that Batman has liability insurance before asking him... ;)
Title: Speakers
Post by: Brett on January 12, 2009, 05:27:39 PM
Thread tidied - now play nice!

\'Bish - shouldn\'t you be putting your efforts into a new sermon?

Peace :wave
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on January 12, 2009, 05:30:15 PM
Marvellous!!  Thank you.  ((he started it.... *grin*))
Title: Speakers
Post by: batman on January 12, 2009, 05:31:00 PM
Quote from: willanddeb;568785Hi
 
I am thinking of replacing the old stock speakers in the car but want to still keep them under the original covers. I was hoping to use 6x9 in the back and maybe 6x8 in the front.
 
how hard is it to get at the speakers and are there any particular ones that people recommend, I just want to upgrade them as they are a little tired now.
 
Many thanks
 
Will :)

 not sure if you have but an aftermarket head unit is a start for a better sound
Title: Speakers
Post by: Archbish on January 12, 2009, 05:36:43 PM
^^^what he said  *innocent grin*