I have just gone and spent £140 on getting my FD 4 wheel laser aligned. All settings are to manufacturers standard.
These are the results:-
Front (L) (Degrees)
Camber = -0.29
Caster = 6.22
Toe = 0.14
Front (R) (Deg)
Camber = -0.27
Caster = 6.15
Toe = 0.11
Total Toe = 0.24 deg
Steer Ahead = 0.02 deg
Rear (L) (Deg)
Camber = -1.57
Toe = 0.08
Rear (R) (Deg)
Camber = -1.38
Toe = 0.14
Total Toe = 0.21
Thrust angle = -0.03
My FD has new Tein SuperStreet Coilover suspension - set to ride quite firm, 17" wheels, new rotational tyres, tyre pressure 31-32psi, front strut brace.
When driving, the FD pulls hard to the right when I let go of the steering wheel. It doesnt pull under braking and has had new front discs and pads.
Im at a total loss with it now, i thought that by getting the 4W laser done the problem would go away, I dont know what to do next.....HELP!:2Confused
Ash
wheel bearing?
Bobbit - Can i check this by jacking the car and moving the wheel? I thought i would hear it aswell if its gone?
ash check the measure ments of your coilovers i had same problem tosser who had mine before was a aft git and set the drivers side slightly higher to try to achive a level ride so one of my coils was higher than the rest i had mine re alinged and went for a moddified street setting i have the measure ments for this if you need them but either that or a sticky piston in the brakes at the front check the lips on the front discs should all be even if its binding it will make the car pull
and yes for whell bearing s jack the car one at a time grab the wheel hand at top and bottom and pull and push if bearings gone youll have exsesive movement and noisy on spinning the wheel
Batman - The suspension is very new, only a few months old i reckon. Could you send me those settings please ash2b@yahoo.co.uk and how you measure them.
Thanks mate
Ash
what about anti roll bar drop links?
well if the coil overs arnt even the car will lean and more angle on a wheel will affect the cars behaviour on the road
im talking about the distance between the coilover spring and th basket the bit with the thread you turn to raise or lower the car just measure it carefully
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/ascaudio/20122008844.jpg)
ps 140 quids a ripp off had mine done for 90 some one taking the ****
That makes me feel better /\\ lol:rollin
thats ok go back say ya cars pulling oddly theyve ****ed it up ask for a refund then come see me ill save you some cash lol
Yep, will pop in tomorrow and explain that im not happy..however they did say that it may not cure the problem...?
A quick check with a tape measure will show if the car is at the wrong heights,
On level ground look for around 26" at the front and 26 1/2" at the back, measured from the center of the wheel arch curve to the ground as this is the hight that most FD\'s work out to be,
As has been mentioned, seized caliper is first up, and you can check this by simply driving down the road without using too much brake then after a couple of miles stop and put your hand near each caliper and if you have a hot one, there\'s yer fault,
Next up, we all over look the obvious at times, "tyre pressures"?
Let us know if the above is no use as I will then give you more info,
Thanks Clive - I will do the three above mentioned tomorrow plus the wheel bearing. I will update this in the morning.
Best regards
Ash
There would have to be a very large variation in height to cause a significant pull of the car, so you can probably rule that out imho.
Clive - the heights you have listed are all very well, but don\'t take into account the fact that a lot of aftermarket suspension is either height adjustable, or the springs offer a different amount of drop to one another.
As far as i can see there\'s nothing glaringly obvious with the suspension settings at all.
Was it not pulling before the alignment?
To be fair I pad £140 a few years ago - it\'s not too bad - it\'s not cheap, but it\'s not way OTT.
How old are the bushings on the car? Worn track rod ends could lead to problems, likewise bushes in the rear toe links.
The FD was pulling to the right hard before, and still is. I dont know how old the bushings are.
Looking at the vehicle ride height, it does look even but i will still check this.
Ash
bugger me, I paid £60 to get mine don in my local!! & the poor guy was under the car for about 4 hours getting the settings I wanted!! realy felt sorry for him, but he pulled through in the end!
Jono
Jone - was that camber, castor, and toe? or was that just toe all round?
Proper 4 wheel laser alignment tends to be more than £60.
If it was pulling before I\'d suggest it\'s calipers - I recently rebuilt mine on a 48k fresh import and they were showing signs of starting to seize some of the pistons.
In fact, I\'m pretty sure the basic caliper is identical (except for mounting points) to that of an S14 200SX and R33 GTST - both of which seize just for a giggle, so i wouldn\'t be surprised at all.
Does it do it on power, on overrun, in neutral, or all of the above?
Also check the handbrake cables for freeness.
SiH - The FD was pulling to the right hard before, the same as its doing now.
So i have checked the suspension heights, these are both approx. 25" from ground to under wheel arch. I have checked the wheel bearings both side, and there is no movement in the vertical motion, a little in the horizontal but that is due to the steering. I took the FD for a drive (5 mins) variety of braking and the right caliper was not warm/hot, so no sticking piston.
Does this now leave as SiH said:
Worn track rod ends could lead to problems, likewise bushes in the rear toe links but could worn bushings really cause the car to pull so much.
Example:- 30mph, let go of wheel, let the car coast and within 20 meters the car would be hitting the kerb on the other side of the road!:confused::confused:
Have you had a look underneath the car as a whole to see if the chassis has any signs of damage repair?
rgds
Brian
Hi Ash,
If you want to give me a ring on 01474 361800 so I can get more info I will try and help
Quote from: bnaellis;567647Have you had a look underneath the car as a whole to see if the chassis has any signs of damage repair?
rgds
Brian
Hi Brian,
I have had a look, but not a detailed one so I cant really comment - this has started to cross my mind!:3Confused
Quote from: clive;567648Hi Ash,
If you want to give me a ring on 01474 361800 so I can get more info I will try and help
Hi Clive,
I have left a message on your answer phone.
Thanks
Ash
Thanks for the call today Clive. I have spoken with the Garage that did the 4W Laser alignment and they are going to check it again when i get the chance to take it in.
Also, out of interest i did a car MOT search online to see if it has ever failed or had any advisories. Would either of the following cause the pulling to the right:-
1/. Steering column universal joint has slight play (2.1.4)
2/. Offside Front Anti-roll bar linkage rubber mounting deteriorated resulting in excessive movement (2.4.G.3)
3/. Nearside Front Anti-roll bar linkage severely distorted (2.4.G.1)
Thanks
Ash
IIRC the FD has a similar DTSS setup to the FC - that being the case you may find your pulling problems relate to a collapsed DTSS bush. Its a common cause of pulling in the FC :wave
I took the FD back to the 4Wheel Laser place
They checked the tracking, all was fine. I asked them out of elimination to change the wheels over [front left and right]. Drove the car away (after i got a jump) and UNBELIEVABLY :eek: the car now pulls to the LEFT :eek:!!!!
How is this at all possible.
- Tyre pressure the same
- Tyre make the same (Dunlop)
- Non rotational so can be swapped easily
So I can only think of two things, the wheel that is now on the left (nearside) is either:-
a). Heavier in weight, wheel fault
b). Not balanced at all, but there is no steering wheel wobble!?
I think my next step is to get hold of a cheap set of std alloys with even tyres and swap them.
Comments please guys.
Oh, also I checked the chassis when it was up in the air and there are no bents suspension parts, chassis all straight and no signs of damage. I had a good look!! Plus the swapping of wheels proves no damage.:Thumbsup!
Thats pretty weird Ash! Even different tyres and pressures don\'t make as obvious a difference as you are describing, they just makes the car feel ropey and pull slightly. I never get tyres balanced because of drifting them and its never an issue.
This may sound like a dumb question but you have deffo got both narrower wheels on the front and not one skinny and one wide have you?!
It is weird!! Royal, I was chatting to a mate at work just now and he suggested the same, to be honest I cant remember if the tyre sizes are the same on the front. They should be 235/40/17 (I think). Wheel size i have not checked but me thinkings this must be the reason!
Pleased your getting somewhere finally,
If the tyre is the same size but the rim widths are different sizes then the overall circumference will be completely different and will cause this,
Failing that take both wheels off and check the offsets from one rim to the other,
You can do this by laying the wheel on it\'s face, lay a straight edge horizontally across the tyre and then measure from the flat surface where the stud holes are up to the straight edge,
Hope this helps and makes sense
Hi Clive,
Yes, glad that its not the worsre that i thought it may have been!! Will give what you suggested a try.
Thanks to everyone that has helped. I will let you all know the outcome.
This often happens if you change wheels, when you have had a steering problem you cant solve, but this has proved that you have a wheel or tyre that is a different weight often happens with alloys, so get the front wheels balanced again now you have changed them over.
If the REAR tyres are have a different rolling radius, the car will pull one way on acceleration and the other way on deceleration, probalbly due to the LSD operation.
For your front wheel problem, are the wheel offsets the same ???
Was the car pulling BEFORE you got it aligned???
Martin H
I took both wheels off to measure the offset and came out with these results:-
Nearside...
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/ash2b/Nearsidetyreoffset110kb.jpg)
Offside...
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/ash2b/Offsideoffset110kb.jpg)
This measured all the same, approx. 150mm from hub facing to underneath of wood.
The REASON why the car pulls to the left is because of this...
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/ash2b/Nearsidetyrewithbulge110kb.jpg)
If you notice the left hand side of the tyre tread has bulged all the way around! OUTSIDE OF ALLOY IS ON THE RIGHT HANDSIDE. Now compare this to my normal tyre...
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/ash2b/Offsidetyrenormal762kb.jpg)
So, due to the nearside tyre bulging one side this creates a slopping effect from right to left and therefore if the tyre is on the left the car pulls to the left. If the tyre was on the RIGHT like it was before the opposite happens...
Amazing, the simpliest of things to check really, Tyre Condition ;)
wow Im surprised the tyre guys never noticed this before.
Well done Ash!!!
Yep me too, however the guy who swapped my alloys over had to call for assistance as he couldnt line up the multi-hole pattern :Hammer
what do you think may of caused this tyre \'bulging\' how old are the tyres? was it durring last fitting or initial fitting? What did you have them inflated at?
was the camber way out and caused this over many years do you do lots of trackdays or do you park on a slope! oh and what make are they?
sorry for all the questions but found the whole thread interesting and this could help us all at some stage?
Thanks
Paul
Hi Paul, no problem with all the questions. Lets try and answer them:
Tyres are quite new - were on the car when i bought them but was told they were new, so lets say less than 6months. Tread is between 6-7mm.
Fitting - as mentioned they were on the car when i bought it.
Inflation psi - I had the guys at the 4W alignment infalte them to 32psi. The problem existed before the inflated them. Original pressure was 30psi.
Camber - Camber was not that far out originally, but had it adjusted to within Mazda specifications and the problem was still there.
Trackdays - never done one in the FD but would love to!
Parking on the slope - Nope, my driveway and garage is all flat
Make and Model - Dunlop Le Mans!!
I believe that it is a faulty tyre where there has been a poor grade of rubber.
If, this can help anyone where they have issues with the car pulling to the left first check the following:
1/. Tyres, tread wear, bulges on tread and/or walls, pressure.
2/. Check tyres size and offset of wheels by doing above method.
3/. Go for a drive and check how hot the brake pistons have become. If even the ok.
4/. Check suspension components (bushes etc) and steering wheel angle.
5/. If possible, swap front wheels with rear wheels and see if problems exist or change wheels.
6/. Get tracking checked - then if out get it fixed. Most places wont charge for checking only.
7/. Maybe do this first, but check or any chassis damage.
Hope this helps. When i have enough cash to get a new tyre or 2 I will let you know on this thread.
Best regards :Thumbsup!
Ash
i would email the tyre manufacturer! it will have a build date on it spoke to a mate of mine who is a tyre monkey and mentioned this after seeing your pic, he said that doesnt matter on the age that is a serious fault! dunlop will collect the tyre and test it and he said the likely hood is you will get a new set of rubber... you gotta kick up a fuss though :) hope that helps!
Thanks Ash, this has become very usefull for future use. Just one more thought has the car been on a low loader where it may have been strapped down over the wheels/tyres at some stage/
Cheers
Paul.
Paul, I doubt it has but I cant verify this as I have never needed a low loader plus its not mega low.
Malice - I will definately give that a try - its actually very dangerous!
Bloody hell, never seen anything like that before and I\'ve killed some tyres in my time!! glad you sorted it.
i would be tempted to take it off and measure inside of each edge and check if its deformed, if its different sizes that is a major manufacture floor! it might just of been fitted wrong though and the bead isnt seated right?
Malice , do you mean this?
This is the outer part of the tyre - and measures 80mm - where the tyre is normal.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/ash2b/Nearsidetyrewallheight915kb.jpg)
This is the inner part of the tyre where it bulges and measures 90mm!!
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/ash2b/Nearsidetyrewallheightbulge110kb.jpg)
I will defienately write to Dunlop.
Regards
Ash
i meant remove it from the rim and measure the diameter of the beads but still that is shocking!
I received an email bak from Dunlop this morning which was a pretty good reply time. Anyway, I have attached the email. The problem I have is I didnt buy the tyre, only the car and I dont know where the tyre was purchased, so I cant take it back their.
What do you lot think I should do?
Thank you for your email,
The Le Mans is a tyre that has not been produced for many years , so you can check the age of the tyre from the sidewall,
A tyre age can be established from the DOT markings on the tyre. Your tyre dealer should be able to show you this on the side wall of the tyre or look at http://www.dunloptyres.co.uk/site/tyres/car/sidewallMarkings/ which shows you what DOT markings looks like. Click on letter L.
However ,
Our passenger tyres are warranted for 5 years from date of manufacture or date of purchase if proof can be shown. The warranty covers manufacturing and materials but not accidental damage natural wear etc caused during use.
We offer a tyre inspection service for any tyre dealer or member of the public. Vehicle main agents and tyre dealers can send tyres back for inspection if they have an account with us. If they do not have an account the return can be made through their wholesaler who will then arrange to return the tyre here on their behalf. With regards to returns it is always best to give the product to the person who took your money for it when new. This best covers you under the sale of goods act.
Should we during our inspection offer an allowance (allowances granted are not an admission of liability) it will be % based and is worked out using the remaining tread depth of the tyre. We then advise the recommended allowance to the account holder by letter. A letter advising you of the results is also sent as long as your name and address have been included on the complaint form that dealers raise. If the dealer has no forms they can obtain pads from the BTMA on 0207 457 5040.
The allowance will be made to the account holder who returned the tyre to us. It will be based on their purchase price of the tyre from us. Most dealers will then normally reflect that allowance back to their customer based on their payment price should of course the tyre or a replacement tyre have been brought from them. You will need to speak to your dealer regarding their complaint tyre policy and allowance reimbursement to yourself.
If no allowance is offered on your tyre we will hold it for 14 days. The tyre will then be disposed of. Should you require your tyre back you will need to arrange for a carrier to pick it up within the 14 day period. The return cost would need to be covered by yourself. Carriage costs from the account holding dealer to ourselves are covered by us regardless of the outcome.
Regards,
David Mullin
Product Support & Service
Ash
i would take it to a big tyre place and say you emailed dunlop and see what they say from there? or get in contact with the previous owner and find out where it came from??
Malice, yeah thats got to be the best way I will try and contact the last owner, then take it from there.