i have a custom xspower tubby with a/r 1.16
how do i / can i find out the map for this tubby?
lol I doubt if you will, not the best turbos in the world, only seen compressor maps for the big two, Garrett and Mitsubishi
You hear different things about these turbo\'s - some people have had no issues with them - some have had problems.
Regarding the CFM maps - the XS turbo\'s are usually copies of someone elses Turbo model - so if you can figure out which one they\'ve copied then the CFM maps for that turbo are a starting point at least.
You might have to make an educated guess at what the turbo can flow, and work out your injector sizes form their. If your keeping the AFM on the car, then fuelling will be correct in the lower parts of the map (off boost and low boost), and the MAP sensor should look after the upper range.
You definitely want to go with an aftermarket ECU and go visit a good mapper by the sounds of it - too many variables. It will mean getting hold of a base map that will at least let you drive the car off boost as well.
XS power turbos have been clones of Borg Warner turbo, and also Garrett t04 range - but there\'s a load of different CFM maps just with that lot.
Cheap chinese copies arn\'t they? I actually know the guy who brings all the stuff in and he seems a top bloke. His philosophy is that people want cheap stuff so he\'ll sell it if there\'s a market. He doesn\'t pretend its any better than it is, you get what you pay for and all that. If you\'re only using it on the road and not thrashing it then there\'s a fair chance it\'ll hold up ot the punishment. They\'re manufactured to lower tolerances than the big boys but they don\'t cost that much so you can at least get another when it dies! I know drifters who use them and do that. Not sure its cheaper in the long run but if you don\'t want to shell out big money in the beginning its ok I suppose as long as you can do the work yourself. I\'ve heard plenty of stories about the manifolds and stuff like that cracking, can\'t say I\'d want to use them!
xs power turbos also use incorrect materials, apparently they have brass on brass surfaces which is a big no in a turbo. It takes alot of expireance to make turbos, xs turbos are just poor copies don\'t expect it to get anywhere close to the efficetcy of the genuine garret or whatever it was copied from.
FYI MHI have one of the smallest market shares of turbo manufacture.
Quote from: royal;563726Cheap chinese copies arn\'t they? I actually know the guy who brings all the stuff in and he seems a top bloke. His philosophy is that people want cheap stuff so he\'ll sell it if there\'s a market. He doesn\'t pretend its any better than it is, you get what you pay for and all that. If you\'re only using it on the road and not thrashing it then there\'s a fair chance it\'ll hold up ot the punishment. They\'re manufactured to lower tolerances than the big boys but they don\'t cost that much so you can at least get another when it dies! I know drifters who use them and do that. Not sure its cheaper in the long run but if you don\'t want to shell out big money in the beginning its ok I suppose as long as you can do the work yourself. I\'ve heard plenty of stories about the manifolds and stuff like that cracking, can\'t say I\'d want to use them!
A lot of mani\'s crack though - Even HKS and the like. I\'d have no qualms about using a suitably reinforced and brace XSP manifold. In fact, I use one of their coolers and it suits me fine. Not with the stock pipework though, that was dire!
I would never use a turbo though - for two reasons.
For one, the only car I\'ve ever been in with one was a ridiculous lag monster. The turbo was so badly specced.
Shortly after my P-ride the compressor housing fell in half. Seriously. It was actually glued together. Not bonded. Glued.
Secondly, this \'use as a consumable thing\' is fine in concept - however, with turbo\'s it\'s a tad different - it\'s fine if part of the exhaust side fails, but what if it\'s part of the compressor side? Fancy bits of impellor in teh inlet tract, making swift procgress towards the combustion chamber?
Not for me, thanks.
hmm.. interesting read, thanks for the info.
i wont be trashing it round a track as afraid the whole car will fall apart lol
am still waiting for a pfc b4 fitting the tubby but still trying to figure out what size injectors to fit.
unless its a case of fit pfc, tubby then map then figure out what bigger injectors to get then re-map :?
expensive... =(
yep fit Ecu set that up first,put a rich map on, then fit turbo, run off wastegate,attach wideband check afr, lean or rich as desired check injector duty, if injector duty fine and afr fine then slowly increase boost whilst checking afrs and duty cycles
If you know what your target horsepower is or what your aiming for - you can use the 2nd Gen injector calculator and chuck your figures in there - it will give you a ballpark figure:
http://www.rx7.com/cgi-local/2ndgencalc.cgi
Sor for 400 BHP, and keeping 550 primaries:
you could keep 550 secondaries, and install 2 tertiary injectors, also 550 and get close on 400 80-85% duty.
Or you could change the secondaries and put 1200\'s in and get there that way.
Or change primary and secondary to 800/850 and get close that way, or fit 800 primaries and 1000 secondaries.....
So many ways - and things to think about. Stock fuel pump will have to go - lines are good for over 500, but stock fuel pressure reg isn\'t - so again think about changing that.
Not sure if your tubby will flow enough air to make that power though ?
Quote from: BlitzBoy;563800yep fit Ecu set that up first,put a rich map on, then fit turbo, run off wastegate,attach wideband check afr, lean or rich as desired check injector duty, if injector duty fine and afr fine then slowly increase boost whilst checking afrs and duty cycles
err.. in english:2Confused
im just collecting parts atm then when im done collecting then im gonna pop to somewhere likehaywards or rm motors to fit n fiddle.
im sure (hope) they know what they will be doing :rollin
Quote from: Prof;563808If you know what your target horsepower is or what your aiming for - you can use the 2nd Gen injector calculator and chuck your figures in there - it will give you a ballpark figure:
http://www.rx7.com/cgi-local/2ndgencalc.cgi
Sor for 400 BHP, and keeping 550 primaries:
you could keep 550 secondaries, and install 2 tertiary injectors, also 550 and get close on 400 80-85% duty.
Or you could change the secondaries and put 1200\'s in and get there that way.
Or change primary and secondary to 800/850 and get close that way, or fit 800 primaries and 1000 secondaries.....
So many ways - and things to think about. Stock fuel pump will have to go - lines are good for over 500, but stock fuel pressure reg isn\'t - so again think about changing that.
Not sure if your tubby will flow enough air to make that power though ?
so about 3000cc total for around 400bhp ish.
pete said xs tubby gd for over 400 but we\'ll see :)
i would of thought if u have larger primaries then that would effect the lower rev power band? and the larger secondaries means more power at highter rev band? and tertiary injectors increase power throughout rev range??
hmm.. so need to look at fuel pressure reg also.. think twin spark may come in handy also.. :):)
Quote from: BBCFC;563959so about 3000cc total for around 400bhp ish.
pete said xs tubby gd for over 400 but we\'ll see :)
i would of thought if u have larger primaries then that would effect the lower rev power band? and the larger secondaries means more power at highter rev band? and tertiary injectors increase power throughout rev range??
hmm.. so need to look at fuel pressure reg also.. think twin spark may come in handy also.. :):)
Larger primaries need to be mapped for, but make them too large and idle suffers - as it\'s more difficult to switch them on for very short duration required to get the correct fuelling - it\'s better to keep the primaries at 550. Once the car is on boost, all the throttle plates are open, and the secondaries, being mounted further away from the rotor\'s, allow more time for fuel to mix with air in the runners. You want to do most of the additional fuelling on the secondaries.
good stuff.. =)
would this be any good? or better to just get larger secondaries injectors plus fuel pressure regulator?
are all the injectors the same fit size? or do you need to get special mounts for them?
alas they are not all the same \'fit\'
The stock Injectos for the series 5 cars are top feed, Hi Impedance ones.
The Series 4 Cars had low impedance, and sometimes it\'s hard to find larger capacities in the hi impedance - so a resisitor needs to be wired in series for those to work on an Series 5 car.
The FD\'s use a side feed, so unless you are changing manifolds and a whole load of other bits and bobs - I\'d stick with top feeds.
I\'d also suggest going to a reputable dealer to get them - I got some eBay ones and one stuck open flooding my engine. I sourced my second lot from RHD Japan - they are SARD ones - which are a decent make.
I have heard about the chinese copy XS power turbos, they were cheap copies of the XS power turbos, the tubby pete had was a proper XS power turbo, they run a 9 second supra with XS power everything lol
I agree with what prof says on injectors though, buy the best you can and preferably non bored out injectors.
Quote from: m1tch;564244I have heard about the chinese copy XS power turbos, they were cheap copies of the XS power turbos, the tubby pete had was a proper XS power turbo, they run a 9 second supra with XS power everything lol
I agree with what prof says on injectors though, buy the best you can and preferably non bored out injectors.
I think it\'s even possibly a 7 second Supra now - if you mean the Red and Black beasty :)
i thought someone said xs power copy others..? confused now..
or is there a chain going on...
chinese copy xs power who copy greddy??
Quote from: BBCFC;564343i thought someone said xs power copy others..? confused now..
or is there a chain going on...
chinese copy xs power who copy greddy??
I think that\'s about the size of it !
The problem is that some of the copies aren\'t going to be anywhere near the quality of the item that\'s been cloned (I say some, because I\'ve recently bought some PIC programming gear from China - copies - but the quality of the boards and components is excellent, and the company clearly takes pride in the quality of it\'s work).
The big problem is how do you tell. At least with a supplier like Greddy or HKS you can go back to them and have a route for replacement under warranty.