Hey guys :) I now have a nice Garrett Turbo from a diesel volvo truck:
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l49/m1tch_2006/DSC00049small.jpg)
Its got a hot side of ar 1.15 and a cold side of ar 0.6 :)
I was just wondering if I should make it all shiny and polish it up:
(http://www.sjperformance.com/images/turbo2.jpg)
Or just leave it as is? What does everyone think?
I\'d leave it alone but then again I am lazy! Good luck if you do do it it\'ll take a long time.
gd to see u got a bigger tubby as i managed to get pete\'s xspower one b4 u saw it =p
think thats similar spec to the one i got from pete but i might be wrong.. nt that knoledgeable with tubbys.
if the rest of ur engin bay is gonna be all shiney then polish it to match. tho that pic wiv lots polished looked bit ott =s
Yeah the hot side on mine is much much bigger as its off a diesel truck lol a 1.15 hot side is HUGE, it means I can support a larger compressor at a later date :) woo lol
I had seen petes XS power 1 on his engine before he sold it lol so I didn\'t think he would sell it lol I can\'t remember the specs on it though but its a good balanced turbo, I kinda bought this Garrett one due to impulse lol as its been rebuilt, just need the compressor housing turning 90 degrees and im sorted :D
Hmm I might just leave it as is hmmm would polishing it reduce any of the structual rigidity of it? is there any reason why they are rough cast so much?
Polish the front and Ceramic Coat the Rear :Giggle
Shaun
I am seriously thinking of getting a heat resistant vinyl sticker saying \'got boost?\' and stick it on the compressor housing :D what equivilant spec do you think this turbo is? is it close to a GT35?
Hard to say, take a photo of it next to a can or ruler to get scale.
These things run seriously hot, I wouldn\'t stick anything to it even on the air side.
Shaun
Hmm ok, I mean the compressor side is air cooled lol :P but yeah compressing gas makes stuff hot lol here you go, just took a photo of it:
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l49/m1tch_2006/PC030004.jpg)
You think this turbo should be able to support 400bhp with supporting mods or will I need to upgrade the compressor housing to say 0.7ar as im pretty sure that the 1.15 ar hot side can support a larger front end lol
Knew I\'d seen one of these before :
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29981
Wouldn\'t expect it to make huge figures, possibly 200-300bhp. I\'m not the best person to ask since I asked the same question over 12 months ago :Giggle
Shaun
Wow I never knew someone else had 1 lol :D mines been fully rebuilt, Im getting 210 out of the stock turbo and its so iccle lol I guess I will have 2 plumb it in with 1000cc injectors and see what happens lol (of course there are lots of other bits I will have to do lol)
All I have found out about the turbo is that its from a Diesel Volvo truck which is why it has an AR of 1.15 hot side, how much are larger garrett T04 compressor housings?
i have no idea which is hot side or which is cold side lol
guess hot side is exhaust side..??
bit of a shocker if some1 ask u what turbo u got in there n u reply \'its from a volvo\' lol
Quote from: m1tch;562075Wow I never knew someone else had 1 lol :D mines been fully rebuilt, Im getting 210 out of the stock turbo and its so iccle lol I guess I will have 2 plumb it in with 1000cc injectors and see what happens lol (of course there are lots of other bits I will have to do lol)
All I have found out about the turbo is that its from a Diesel Volvo truck which is why it has an AR of 1.15 hot side, how much are larger garrett T04 compressor housings?
How are you only managing to get 210 from the stock tubby? Should be able to see around 250 easily, 280 is about the highest I\'ve seen. (but don\'t expect the tubby to last long at 280)
Also, I thought derv turbos potentially had a much shorter life when run on rotaries due to the exhaust temps involved? (It\'s early so I could be talking out of my ass :o )
You can get about 220bhp out of a stock turbo on stock boost, my RX is doing pretty well considering its stock and its 17 years old lol There is no way you can get 250 from a stock turbo, its just too small, the air flow simply isn\'t there, if you push it harder it will be out of the efficiency island, I mean on max bhp its dropped to about 0.4 bar down from 0.6 bar owing to the max efficiency it can be at. The stock set up is ment for a average joe driver who rarely goes over 4k revs, hence a quick spooling turbo that is efficient at low revs. Mind you, on the stock setup before the new fuel pump and intercooler it ran 14.8 :)
Ok I have found out that this turbo is either from a Volvo B57 bus or a Volvo F7 truck both running a Volvo TD70-series engine.
as seen below:
B57:
(http://www.dublinbus.cc/049%20img015%2093-028%20Dec%201993.jpg)
F7:
(http://lkw-infos.eu/images/oldtimer/assen-2006/Volvo-F7-vGeffen-Rolf-30-07-06.jpg)
Quote from: M1tchNo way you can get 250 from a stock turbo
??!!?? - not wishing to sound like an arse, but you deffo can! Want to see the dyno chart running at 0.9bar?
Here\'s the dyno from my Graphite TII. This was prior to getting the ECU done, 0.9bar, FCD, boost controller, 3" exhaust system, panel filter :driving
I miss this car :(
Yeah you deffo can get over 250bhp fairly easily and with relative safety. I should be doing around 260-270 when I get my fueling sorted. Hoping to get an Apexi PFC soon!
Loving the sound of the FC :D
Shaun
What kind of mods are you running to get that out of the stock turbo?
I can\'t go above stock boost as I have stock fueling, what cc injectors were you running for the 250bhp?
Surely with a full de-cat exhaust system, a decent air intake, FCD and a chipped ecu you\'d be seeing 250bhp without turning the boost up.
Saying that I think most chipped ecu\'s up the boost to 0.8-0.9 bar.
Mines running on what I think is stock, but might be chipped ECU as it has no fuel cut or rev limiter lol
I will probably be running 1000cc injectors and a e-manage ultimate by the time I get the turbo fitted, I prefer to uprate things so that they aren\'t maxxed out meaning more reliability so I won\'t be thrashing my stock turbo, stock boost is all I will push it to.
My car has a decent air intake, full decat, walbro 255lph fuel pump and a ARC copy intercooler and its making 210bhp, Charlie over at the Surrey Rolling road also has an FC that hes got for the track, he says that on a stock turbo you can\'t get much more than about 220 with a chipped ECU
Running stock pump and injectors, FCD, 3" zorst & panel filter. Boost controller set for 0.9bar. Had an aftermarket BOV too.
If you are talking RWHP then 210-220 is probably about right, if you are talking est flywheel BHP then its around 270 max from the stock turbo.
With the top mount you have alongside the other mods you should see 260 all day long with no problems. Out of interest, what exhaust are you running?
Quote from: m1tch;562345Mines running on what I think is stock, but might be chipped ECU as it has no fuel cut or rev limiter lol
I will probably be running 1000cc injectors and a e-manage ultimate by the time I get the turbo fitted, I prefer to uprate things so that they aren\'t maxxed out meaning more reliability so I won\'t be thrashing my stock turbo, stock boost is all I will push it to.
My car has a decent air intake, full decat, walbro 255lph fuel pump and a ARC copy intercooler and its making 210bhp, Charlie over at the Surrey Rolling road also has an FC that hes got for the track, he says that on a stock turbo you can\'t get much more than about 220 with a chipped ECU
talking about bigger injectors.. cant the 1000cc injectors fit into stock holes? or do u need aftermarket parts to fit 1000cc injectors?
would it be better to have 2 additional injectors instead of changing to 1000cc ones..?
looks like me, m1tch and adereed will have similar beasts once we done with modding :Giggle
tho feels like a race between me n adereed to who can find a pfc first :3gears-lh
Quote from: Brett;562368Running stock pump and injectors, FCD, 3" zorst & panel filter. Boost controller set for 0.9bar. Had an aftermarket BOV too.
If you are talking RWHP then 210-220 is probably about right, if you are talking est flywheel BHP then its around 270 max from the stock turbo.
With the top mount you have alongside the other mods you should see 260 all day long with no problems. Out of interest, what exhaust are you running?
if you have front mount would that giv a higher figure..? or jus means more lag..?
M1tch has an ARC type top mount IIRC, these are almost double the volume of the stock top mount, therefore you should be able to see much better flow through the cooler. Therefore you can run the turbo at a slightly lower boost level and see the same power at the wheels. (Been about 2 years since I did the equations on this, so I can\'t give you the exact numbers I was working from)
A front mount will give you a cooler charge with longer pipe runs, a top mount can suffer from local heat induction, but this can be reduced by fitting some heat shielding and a cooling spray or WI.
:wave
Quote from: adereed;562334Surely with a full de-cat exhaust system, a decent air intake, FCD and a chipped ecu you\'d be seeing 250bhp without turning the boost up.
If you fully DCAT a TII then the lack of back pressure will double the boost anyway - hence the need for an FCD. (and ideally some sort of boost controller)
Quote from: Brett;562409M1tch has an ARC type top mount IIRC, these are almost double the volume of the stock top mount, therefore you should be able to see much better flow through the cooler. Therefore you can run the turbo at a slightly lower boost level and see the same power at the wheels. (Been about 2 years since I did the equations on this, so I can\'t give you the exact numbers I was working from)
A front mount will give you a cooler charge with longer pipe runs, a top mount can suffer from local heat induction, but this can be reduced by fitting some heat shielding and a cooling spray or WI.
:wave
I will be running a cryogenics system soonish, just need to sort out the exhaust, its a custom 1 piece exhaust that has been on there for about a decade, not sure about the OD of the pipes, but they don\'t look that big. The problem being is that I would need a new downpipe to fit the larger turbo, but I need a new ECU and injectors as well as relocating the air pump to fit the new turbo. It looks like I am going to change the exhaust in 2 stages and get someone to weld a 3" flange onto the back of the current midbox so it will be current turbo to midbox and then 3" from midbox back, this means that I can just change the downpipe and midbox to a 3" system when I change the turbo.
The problem being is the fact that my engine is currently on stock ports, so spooling a 1.15ar hot side might be an issue, which is why I might not be changing the turbo for a while lol
If I were to get a boost controller and put it to 0.6bar (which is the stock ECU limit) would the fueling be ok with that? I need to get myself a wideband O2 sensor and a A/F guage first though, I already have a nice racetech boost guage so thats sorted for the boost.
This is my goal for my FC:
400bhp @ max 1.2bar (preferably with flames like it does at the mo on the dyno) :D
Another note on top mounts, the ARC cooler takes longer for heat soak to take affect and as soon as you start moving the temp drops rapidly (Prof has the same one and he has air temp sensors showing this)
I would prefer a V mount due to the shorter pipe lenghts but the top mount has NO lag lol especially coupled to the Greddy compression tube, im literally on boost as soon as I touch the throttle at any revs lol
The stock fuel system should handle 0.6bar with no problems, the FC tends to be very rich as standard in order for the reburning system to work correctly :yes
My advice would be to ensure you have double checked the loom that is powering your fuel pump - FC\'s are notorious for fuel pump power supply issues as the loom ages. Quite often its just a dodgy earth, but check it anyone! :wave
Quote from: Brett;562459The stock fuel system should handle 0.6bar with no problems, the FC tends to be very rich as standard in order for the reburning system to work correctly :yes
My advice would be to ensure you have double checked the loom that is powering your fuel pump - FC\'s are notorious for fuel pump power supply issues as the loom ages. Quite often its just a dodgy earth, but check it anyone! :wave
My fuel pump has been changed and everything checked for a Walbro 255LPH pump so should allow for a good enough fuel supply for about 500bhp or so :) plus I have a spare Walbro as well lol as u do :D
What boost controlers has everyone got? I have seen somewhere selling a profec B copy which also has 2 12V outputs that activate stuff like WI or Crygenics at a preset level :D
Boost control comes down to budget and personal taste - get the best you can, make sure it will do all you want in the future too :)
m1tch, how much is the cryrogenics treatment gonna cost, if you dont mind me asking just out of curiosity. looks expensive from the process and time taken to perform it.
jus been looking up on some boost controllers n seems sensible so i can push out more a couple more bhp wiv my current setup =)
my mate recommended profec b.
on your graph you had 196 at the wheels - thats not too bad to say they are only 202 at the fly out of the factory
so even getting 210-215 at the wheels - it would be a considerable improvement over stock
ooh - everyone going off topic a bit.
I\'d say leave it unpolished - looks more industrial :)
lol.. true.. going off topic but...
back to topic again.. given we kinda know where ur tubby is from.. put a fat plate saying volvo on ur tubby.. that will shock ppl when they see it lol
oh.. and as its from a volvo u might as well but this reg plate off meto match it \'OVO4OVO\'
kinda reads volvo =p
I have a twist and go type boost controller installed. I never fitted itit came with the carand I never use it. I have a HKS one to go on but haven\'t got round to fitting it. Yours for £75 if you want it.
Quote from: adereed;562776I have a twist and go type boost controller installed. I never fitted itit came with the carand I never use it. I have a HKS one to go on but haven\'t got round to fitting it. Yours for £75 if you want it.
*vulture warning lol*
out of interest. wot hks one is it? (im askin on behalf of m1tch ;p )
oooo :D *is interested*
Its an EVC 1 or 2. Not too sure but I\'d say its a 1. It suits the car as its from the early to mid 90\'s I would say.
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc308/adereed/Photo0160.jpg)
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc308/adereed/Photo0161.jpg)
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc308/adereed/Photo0162.jpg)
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc308/adereed/Photo0163.jpg)
Sorry to be off topic
Its an EVC2, im still deciding on it as its not got a digitial readout so boost can be set accuratly but I will think about it :)
I havent read the full thread so apologies if its been said but a diesel turbo is not designed for the exhaust temps you will see on a petrol car particularly a rx7. Dont get me wrong it wont fail immediately, but you will have to treat your turbine housing as a disposable item and change it fairly regularly (depending on the mileage you cover). It will fur up and crack. Still dont let that stop you. The housings are cheap as chips to buy. :D Not sure what the burst characteristics of it will be at petrol egt\'s though.
Quote from: meddy;562914I havent read the full thread so apologies if its been said but a diesel turbo is not designed for the exhaust temps you will see on a petrol car particularly a rx7. Dont get me wrong it wont fail immediately, but you will have to treat your turbine housing as a disposable item and change it fairly regularly (depending on the mileage you cover). It will fur up and crack. Still dont let that stop you. The housings are cheap as chips to buy. :D Not sure what the burst characteristics of it will be at petrol egt\'s though.
interesting to know :)
Great :( Wish I never bought it now
can you not take ur new tubby apart n mate it with ur current stock tubby to make a hybrid?
i have no idea about tubbys so nt sure if thats possible
Hmm well I already have a T4 manifold to fit the larger hot side, I mean the reason why I got it is cause the hot side was large so that I could upgrade the compressor and keep the larger hotside :( I will have 2 check, I guess it might work as I would have the same exhaust as the OEM turbo hot side would still be used, hmmm
Quote from: m1tch;562994Great :( Wish I never bought it now
Dont worry about it. Its the route Im going, as I dont think you can justify the cost of the Garrett performance car units. I dont know about garrett housings, but Holset ones (which I plan to use) are peanuts, so if/when it cracks I\'ll chuck on another.
Quote from: meddy;563039Dont worry about it. Its the route Im going, as I dont think you can justify the cost of the Garrett performance car units. I dont know about garrett housings, but Holset ones (which I plan to use) are peanuts, so if/when it cracks I\'ll chuck on another.
are you not worried if it cracks n some fragments go through the ic and end up in the rotor. could do more damage than you think..?!
plus will mess up not only the housing but the compressor also..
Quote from: BBCFC;563044are you not worried if it cracks n some fragments go through the ic and end up in the rotor. could do more damage than you think..?!
plus will mess up not only the housing but the compressor also..
Zactly :( im worried now :( if the hot side goes it gonna throw off the compressor wheel and when its spinning at how every many thousand RPM its gonna be damaged :(
What is the difference between the two? if its off a diesel truck its going to be high temp anyhow as its always going to be working at maximum load, it would be different if it was off a diesel golf lol
What do Garrett say - might be worth an email to them to find out what they think.
Quote from: m1tch;563065Zactly :( im worried now :( if the hot side goes it gonna throw off the compressor wheel and when its spinning at how every many thousand RPM its gonna be damaged :(
What is the difference between the two? if its off a diesel truck its going to be high temp anyhow as its always going to be working at maximum load, it would be different if it was off a diesel golf lol
Ok first off the wheel isnt the problem. Its the housing itself. It will crack through thermo mechanical fatigue, bits however wont just start dropping off. First thing you will see is what I can only describe as a furring up of the housing. Then after an unknown amount of time (maybe 1 heat cycle I dont know) tiny cracks will form initially and will then slowly propogate through the housing. Eventually you will start to see leakage, but I would guess you\'ld have noticed them by then. Plenty of guys in Norway/Sweden and even the US have run them but generally on drag cars. I cant speak for Garrett, but I can for Holset and we quote 660 degrees as the safe working temp for our housing material. In a petrol engine temps will be well above this.
Possibly the tone of my first post was a bit inflamatory and I apologise for that. Basically what Im saying is its OK to use a Diesel unit as long as you except the risks and keep an eye on things.
Yeah its ok, I am looking for a solution, can\'t find any spare housing though :( the RX will run at 900C exhaust temps lol add on to the fact I will probably be running high octane race fuel....
I think 900 is a bit high - more likely if you keep it rich you\'ll be looking at mid 700\'s. Leaner mixtures or retarded timing will likely push up the EGT\'s.
- Keep it Rich:
- Wrap the tubby to reduce rapid cooling
- Insure good oil feed into the CHRA, or consider swapping it for a water and oil cooled one to get temps lower
- Have it checked for cracks before you put it on
yep 1000cc injectors are a direct swap with the stock ones