Hello all,
right have the new FD:
Street Port
Uprated fuel pump
Air pump removed
Apexi Power FC
Induction Kit
VMI
HKS Silent Power exhaust + de-cat
Base map
Low compression figures (piston compression tester)
Ok think thats all the engine spec that i\'ll need to state?
Problem:
Car has been off the road for 5-6 months+ turbos off!
Suspected turbo seal \'7k lift off plenty of smoke\' Can\'t confirm if white or blue?
New used turbos on.
First start was smokey my mechanic states! No Lamba sensor?
Lamba sensor fitted, started fine with no smoke, went to petrol station put £40 worth of Optimax in on top of a £10 top up for MOT (originally £10 of old fuel left in it)
Started fine no smoke!
Gentle drive for 15mins turned off.
Started again 45+ mins later, big plume of white smoke disappeared after 5-10secs!
Guess I just wanted to know your thoughts, i know it will need a rebuild \'compression figures\' but should I risk driving it at the moment? Starts fine hot and cold :evillaugh
Many thanks, might give Ed a ring!
Plenty of white smoke when cold in this weather mate, not likely to be anything to worry about.
It makes me worried, because the engine would have been warmed up, the 3rd time it was started, which is when this happened?
I friend stood at the rear as I started it tonight, it seemed to be slightly flooded, and again, once started a small plume of smoke from the exhaust my friend said as my Mechanic said before, that it smelt highly of fuel.
As I said its had the air pump removed (Hunts at idle) once warm, i know this contributes to over fueling at idle and also it is on a base map, again chucking in a little more fuel than is needed!
Going to change plugs, filters, oil etc
Can anyone advise what percentage of fuel, I should maybe take off, on the INJ map at the specific idle parameters with these mods?
:god
Everyone must be back by know? lmao
I did a champagne \'test\' check today and all is fine :evillaugh
I\'m going to adjust the Cranking Inj time, as it seems to be chucking in slightly too much fuel on start up
Going to get it mapped @ REWorx if the compression results are all good fingers crossed
Help anybody?
Quote from: richrx;561686dmdriftion - do you know the answers to these questions? afaik a cold compression test will give a higher result, giving better readings than the engine has, as compression falls when its warm, hence worn engines starting from cold but flooding when you restart it once its hit operating temp.
richard
This would explain it! :eek: The engine is worn!
Can the street ported block be used again if i were to take this apart now?
Depends on where its worn. It might well be that the housings are worn in which case your porting will go in the bin with the housings. You might be lucky and all it needs is a refresh with new Apex seals etc, better to find this out now before it throws a wobbly and does some expensive damage. Why dont you try a bit of Engine Restore oil. At this stage you have nothing to lose apart from £40 which might get the engine to the stage when the rebuild suits you.
You did say its been stood still so might even be a stuck seal but I imagine the compression check is fairly accurate in what its telling the operator. As a matter of interest was this with a piston checker again or the Mazda checker?
As long as there is Antifreeze in the engine then you should be able to smell the steam from the exhaust on start up, if it smells sweet then likely you have a water seal on the way out.
If the car starts hot and cold pretty readily then dont condemn the engine for low compression,there is a big difference between static compression( Not running) and dynamic compression (engine running) and it does depend on what type of apex seals were used in the rebuild.
If the water seals are a bit ropy there is a possible easy fix,give me a call during the week and i\'ll let you know.
Regards
Carl
Quote from: pdtaylor18;562844Depends on where its worn. It might well be that the housings are worn in which case your porting will go in the bin with the housings. You might be lucky and all it needs is a refresh with new Apex seals etc, better to find this out now before it throws a wobbly and does some expensive damage. Why dont you try a bit of Engine Restore oil. At this stage you have nothing to lose apart from £40 which might get the engine to the stage when the rebuild suits you.
You did say its been stood still so might even be a stuck seal but I imagine the compression check is fairly accurate in what its telling the operator. As a matter of interest was this with a piston checker again or the Mazda checker?
Ok,
i had it compression tested at REworxs and Geoff confirmed that compression was down to 5bar in the rear rotor (Didn\'t give me the compression print out though :Hammer). So don\'t know exactly what the chambers are reading? Might ask him if he\'s got the print out?
The first compression test was completed with a Piston tester, car had been off the road, cold etc and the rear rotor bounced at about 50 psi :(
so two different readings unless i did not take the readings correctly?
Where can i get some engine restore oil?
Geoff has said it won\'t be full rebuild, and has diagnosed it, as you have said, as a sticking or chipped Apex seal :eek:
Would a few engine flush and fresh oil changes aid in un-sticking an Apex seal??
Many thanks
Hi Carl,
Quote from: Carl;563020As long as there is Antifreeze in the engine then you should be able to smell the steam from the exhaust on start up, if it smells sweet then likely you have a water seal on the way out.
If the car starts hot and cold pretty readily then dont condemn the engine for low compression,there is a big difference between static compression( Not running) and dynamic compression (engine running) and it does depend on what type of apex seals were used in the rebuild.
If the water seals are a bit ropy there is a possible easy fix,give me a call during the week and i\'ll let you know.
Regards
Carl
Ok,
will take your contact number Carl and give you a call for some advice, Geoff has said, it could be a sticking seal that is allowing fuel from no.1 chamber to pass \'unburnt etc\' into chamber no2, this is the cause of the white/grey smoke on start up? Starts fine hot or cold but seems to over fuel?
The smoke/steam from the exhaust smells very much of fuel :mmmm lol
Also noticed after getting it back from Geoff that 3 of the Spark plugs were finger tight and my Missus couldn\'t get it started :evillaugh \'poor women no chance\'. Geoff said i could leave it there, but i need the car, so guess they forgot to nip the plugs up?
But that got me thinking :confused: if they compression tested and the top plugs were lose anyway it would get bad compression readings wouldn\'t it?
Anyway after the missus turned it over till the battery went flat and filled up the chambers with fuel, I then removed the two trailing plugs, turned it over without the fuel pump fuse to remove the excess fuel, nipped the plugs back in then noticed one of the leading plugs was lose/finger tight :eek:
Nipped it up, got the jump leads out, it started first time :evillaugh and i\'ve been to work in it today, it seemed a bit better to drive?
Many thanks for time
Duncan
I think you remove the top two plugs for the test, hence the reason why they were loose and then WOT for some revolutions to get the readings. There are a few ways to unstick the seal if it is stuck and ATF oil some says will work but best to have a read on here or the RX7club forum as thats well documented. The restore oil will only be good if its low compression only and will not unstick the seal. You can try spraying some sort of cleaner through the plug holes or it its does run add a generous amount of pre-mix oil into the fuel as this does burn clean and has been known to clean up the inards but I would imagine this is no overnight fix and would take some time to do its job.
the restore oil you can buy from Ebay. You will only need 1/2 ltr.
What pre-mix oil should i use and where can i get it from?
Many thanks for your help!
as well as the OMP to chuck your old engine oil around the seal tips you can also add 2 stroke oil to the fuel, this may well aid after a long while but as i said its no overnight fix. Some rotary owners still run both the OMP and premix and I will also if i am doing a hard run like a tunnel run etc. unless you blank of your OMP you will have both engine oil amd premix but it can only but help. Dont forget its only worth doing if you can get the engine going again and able to do some nice long hard runs. Better to try and soak the tips with some sort of cleaner and then blow it all out before you start her back up. It may all be in vain if a tip has chipped but better than a rebuild if it works.
The engine is running now!
What is OMD? Oil - -
I will add some 2-stroke to the next fill up, what ratio will be good?
Many thanks
Just had a search on rx7club.com and found the guys in the states are running approx 4oz of 2-stroke, to a full tank of fuel!
Also they recommend this http://www.idemitsu-usa.com/page_210.htm
QuoteWhat is OMD? Oil - -
OMP = Oil Metering Pump, responsible for injecting oil into the engine whilst running to keep the seals lubricated. Running pre-mix fuel as well guards against your engine going pop if the OMP fails whilst the engine is running
HTH :D
T
Ok thank you
I\'m running premix on this tank of fuel as advised :mmmm probably will run premix all the time now :yes
Spoke with Chris (REWorx) today and they managed to get a reading from the rear rotor of 5.1bar 5.2bar 5.2bar from the chambers
Apparently they never got a reading from the front rotor :3Confused Both spark plugs were loose so maybe thats why \'It was reading much higher than the rear rotor, on a piston tester when we tested it\' so i\'m kinda happy but will book it in for another check
Also today after driving home from work i pulled into Shell for some premix Optimax fuel. Then argh it would not start!
Checked plugs, they were a little oily and pretty black, it is on a base map so over fueling! Run through the de-flooding procedure and tried it again but just seemed to miss starting by a m/s lol
Rac on route left for about 20 mins tried again started first time :3Confused
Right, checked \'Hot starting problems\' thread (Running 9\'s L and T) cars compression is not great i know. Found that the TPS voltage was not within specification on the Commander sensor checks, and adjusted accordingly.
Took the car for a spirited drive to get it up to operating temp, left it to cool for 2-3mins turned it off (As if in the fuel station) turned the key to start and it started fine, in fact better than before :Thumbsup!
Very happy, seems to run better with premix too?
Random question: Do both the vacuum pipes, from the recirc valves run to the positive side of the intake plenum? I would imagine that they should and will check the Owners manual!
Again many thanks
Oil metering pump no wonder, i was reading it as OMD , to close to the screen for tooo long ha ha
Thank you
hi there,
what would the advantage be to adding 2-stroke to the fuel tank?
also, what should the TPS voltage be, and where can it be tested for and adjusted from?
sorry to ask so many questions!
thanks
Oops typo, where can it be tested from? My previous post didn\'t make sense!
Like I said above, two-stroke is added to the fuel tank to guard against failure of the OMP (oil metering pump). Cos rotaries burn oil by design (it is injected directly into the rotor housings to lubricate the apex seals as they travel round - kind of like how oil lubricates pistons in a boinger) the OMP ensures the oil is always injected.
If it fails with your foot fully down on the loud pedal (and they have been known to do so) your engine will last about 3 seconds!!!
In other words, you don\'t HAVE to do it (i don;t) but some people like the extra assurance of it.
HTH
T
As above and also..
The TPS is situated on the rear of the Intake Manifold (Throttle Body) It can be rotated by a few degrees either way and is held in situ by 2 screws.
The voltage with the engine warm/operating temp, and the throttle closed completely, should be between 0.75v and 1.25v
Hang on i posted this on another thread hope this helps.
Much Easier if you have a Power Fc and Commander :yes
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/Dmdrifting/ThrottlePosistionSensor.jpg)
(http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/Dmdrifting/ThrottlePosistionSensor.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)
(http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/%3Ca%20href=%22http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/Dmdrifting/?action=view¤t=ThrottlePosistionSensor.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/Dmdrifting/ThrottlePosistionSensor.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Photobucket%22%3E%3C/a%3E)
Quote from: DMDRIFTING;563945Random question: Do both the vacuum pipes, from the recirc valves run to the positive side of the intake plenum? I would imagine that they should and will check the Owners manual!
Again many thanks
The Vacuum pipes should be situated:
Air by Pass \'Valve Nearest Slam Panel\' vacuum should be on the higher/top nipple on the intake manifold.
The Rear \'Valve\' closest to bulkhead vacuum should be situated on the lower vacuum nipple :chat