ive seen a few of these for sale on various sites now and was wondering how they affect engines in the long run..
ive a power fc in the car and im aware these have grounding issues with the Bee_r..
was wondering does anyone have one installed and what they like for drag use etc? and is the installation easy enough?
Ciaran.
bee r, i thought they do several products..?!
the only bee r i kno of cut the sparks at a limit which u can set it at and the fuel keeps getting fed.
i dunt see much poiint in bee r if u have a pfc as the pfc can do the same along with launch control.
hmmm tell me more!!
what is a Bee R mate? i thought they were a jap tuning company that specialise in skylines
sorry should have said its the Bee_r rev limiter....coming from skyline ownership we tended just to call it the Bee_r...:)
I looked into getting one a year or so ago... would\'ve loved to but heard they can damage the engine
Basically, I think when it cuts the spark, the excess fuel is dumped down the exhaust, which then ignites and explodes... trouble is, the shock wave travels all the way back up into the engine and puts massive pressure on the seals..
or something like that... never did undestand it properly... and didn\'t risk it.
not sure if its any more damaging than on a normal piston engine, but the rotary is more delicate :)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C3ykv9csPus&feature=related (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C3ykv9csPus&feature=related)
Quote from: RedRummy;548106I looked into getting one a year or so ago... would\'ve loved to but heard they can damage the engine
Basically, I think when it cuts the spark, the excess fuel is dumped down the exhaust, which then ignites and explodes... trouble is, the shock wave travels all the way back up into the engine and puts massive pressure on the seals..
or something like that... never did undestand it properly... and didn\'t risk it.
not sure if its any more damaging than on a normal piston engine, but the rotary is more delicate :)
i thought it just helps prevent the engin goin lean when the fuel is cut.
i didnt kno about the shock waves travelling back up into the engin.. but then its got to get past the turbo 1st.
dont see much point in this unless u want to make flames. besides the launch control feature.. if ur a gd driver then u dont need it as a gd right foot can do just as well :3gears-rh
besides.. how often u gonna launch off the lights..? (thinking about it.. quite alot actually haha)
Quote from: BBCFC;548043bee r, i thought they do several products..?!
the only bee r i kno of cut the sparks at a limit which u can set it at and the fuel keeps getting fed.
i dunt see much poiint in bee r if u have a pfc as the pfc can do the same along with launch control.
The standard Apexi Power FC does not have launch control you have to upgrade to the Pro version of the chip like Ed is selling
Just to clarify - I don\'t know how they work on a rotary, but...
On the SR20 piston engine, they don\'t work in a very sympathetic way - they don\'t actually cut the spark or ignition directly.
What they do do (According to tuning Guru Jez Horsham) is ground the CAS as random intervals! Hence teh ECU has no idea where in the combustion cycle the engine is, cueing random fuelling, ignition, and other nasty events.
On the SR they are often cited as being responsible for sending bits of rocker arm around the engine...
Quote from: SiH;548318What they do do (According to tuning Guru Jez Horsham) is ground the CAS as random intervals! Hence teh ECU has no idea where in the combustion cycle the engine is, cueing random fuelling, ignition, and other nasty events.
On the SR they are often cited as being responsible for sending bits of rocker arm around the engine...
that does sound pretty nasty! :eek
I\'m not saying I know about it, just what was said by a man who knows a LOT abotu how the SR20 works.
This may be intersting to some:
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=212318&highlight=jez+bee
Of particular interest, this quote from the man himself:
Quote from: JezI\'ve had a look at the beer rev limiters and if they work the way I think they do, then I\'m surprised any engine has survived.
All this talk of them only stopping the ignition is, IMO, rubbish. They only connect to the CAS signals and do not intercept any signal lines.
So theres only really one thing that can do: mess about with the CAS signal.
I\'m guessing here: I expect they monitor rpm on the fast pulse signal and then just ground the other CAS signal when a certain rpm is reached. This basically makes the ECU really confused and fire the injectors and plugs probably randomly.
If anyone has a beer limiter and is interested in helping me find out how they work then let me know and I\'ll get a scope on it
and
QuoteI reckon it\'ll just pulse one of the CAS signals to ground - making the ECU think the engine is spinning at a different rpm - this will cause injection and ignition events to be essentially random with actual ignition of the fuel occur all over the place
I can\'t find the thread with the final conclusion though :(
Either way, i\'m fcuked if i\'m fitting one to one of my cars.
IMHO, it\'s nothing but a JDM tyte flamer kit, as that\'s what most people use them for...
although the flamers dont really give the loud "Shotgun" bangs which is pretty desirable,,bad for your exhaust etc..but looks and sounds the business as well as helping in launch?!
Quote from: SiH;548318On the SR they are often cited as being responsible for sending bits of rocker arm around the engine...
that is true but only on the gtir version of the engine. the silvia type engines use hydraulic followers so they are ok to be used with the bee r limiter.
however the gtir uses rocker arms and shims. so a rocker can bounce off leaving a shim to jump off, and land in the sump. hence cracking the arm with the cam the next time the lobe comes round to the rocker. but this can happen even if you hit the stock rev limit on the gtir anyway.
a rocker stopper can help cure this.
my bee r does work on my gtir but, yes it is very strange and the rev counter doesnt like it. i have removed it as i didnt like it. and thats how it works on all engines by disrupting the two cas 1 degree and 180 degree signals. so its no different on the sr to any engine. its more suited to \'cruises\'lol but mine did make .3 bar boost in neutral when i used it on the strip for launching.
Quote from: rx jamie;549150that is true but only on the gtir version of the engine. the silvia type engines use hydraulic followers so they are ok to be used with the bee r limiter.
however the gtir uses rocker arms and shims. so a rocker can bounce off leaving a shim to jump off, and land in the sump. hence cracking the arm with the cam the next time the lobe comes round to the rocker. but this can happen even if you hit the stock rev limit on the gtir anyway.
a rocker stopper can help cure this.
my bee r does work on my gtir but, yes it is very strange and the rev counter doesnt like it. i have removed it as i didnt like it. and thats how it works on all engines by disrupting the two cas 1 degree and 180 degree signals. so its no different on the sr to any engine. its more suited to \'cruises\'lol but mine did make .3 bar boost in neutral when i used it on the strip for launching.
They also destroy rockers on the SR on the S14/Silvia SR20 dude :nod: That\'s what the thread i linked to is about.
To me how it works jsut seems ridiculous - People jsut buy them for the visual effect. If you are going to do something like this, do it properly with an Omex rev limiter or RLTC/PFC pro(think this has it?)
yeah agreed its for visual effect really. got mine cheap from rhdjapan about 100 quid. for some reason it stopped my speedo working on full throttle aswell. very strange.
So all in all, a great addition to any vehicle!
JDM flamer kits, get your JDM flamer kits here...
Anyone know how to wire this up with a Power FC?
An e-manage ultimate has a launch control function :)
I have the Power FC but I am kinda interested to see how the bee*r works. Now I am trying to figure out how to connect everything.
Quote from: chrisyerkes;652229Anyone know how to wire this up with a Power FC?
exactly the same as using the stock ecu id imagine
this is for a TII
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=812976
if it helps? :)
http://www.takakaira.co.jp/Part.aspx?SubCatId=49876a45-e112-46bf-94cd-6f28d25f9690&bySearch=true&tkno=101025&searchmakerpartno=
has a paragraph about pfc but it sais pfc is piggyback.
My car using POWER FC. Can I install this REV LIMITER?
A earth grounding issue has to be resolved if a vehicle is fitted with an aftermarket APEXi Power FC unit. This grounding issue is due to a lack of a ground terminal in the APEXi unit. The REV LIMITER uses the ground signal to cut off the ignition signal from the ECU. Since APEXi Power FC is a piggy back computer, and manipulates the original engine parameters\' signals from the ECU before re-routing these modified signals to the vehicle individual engine components, a separate grounding signal is required from the APEXi Power FC. Once this grounding issue has been resolved, the REV LIMITER will be able to function as it is intended to be.
but mainly grounding issues.
Ok I got it working but but once I turn off the engine it wont turn over unless I disconnect the wires so I though about putting some switches to turn it off until I start the car up kinda sounds like a pain in the butt.
Quote from: chrisyerkes;652407Ok I got it working but but once I turn off the engine it wont turn over unless I disconnect the wires so I though about putting some switches to turn it off until I start the car up kinda sounds like a pain in the butt.
look at the plus side.. no1 will be able to hotwire ur car :Giggle
added security :)
Let us know how long your engine will last using the Bee R Chris
Lol yeah well fixed the prob so shoulD be good to go. Yeah I am ptting money toward a new bridgeport engine anyways so if it goes it just means a new rebuild quicker than I thought :chat. On the plus side the kit sounds amazing.
Are you not concerned about it firing halfway through the compression \'stroke\' and detting the ass off your apex seals, and ruining your housings, plates and rotors?
id say his previous post answers that question
From what I have read from rotary guys putting this kit on their rx7\'s they havent had any problems. As far as the engine gos not to worried bc its going to be rebuilt after the first of the year.
they are very popular on the drift scene bee r\'s, as the rev limit can obviously be set lower. ive never heard many horror stories about them, appart from the obvious sr20det 54c\'s. Many people/tuning companies consider them safer to use than the stock rev limiter due to the stock fuel cut causing leaning issues.
just thought i would add that i had one on my s13 ca18det had no problems had one on my girlfriends r33 rb25det no problems my freind had one on his s14a sr20det and rocker arms were broken
would like to know how much damage they would cause on a rotary tho as i still have one spare
also does the pfc not have this capability if it is the pro version
as long as its a plug and play replacement ecu that just slots in and replaces the stock ecu and utilises the same ecu pin positions then yes its compatible.
And regardless of what anyone says its safer than your stock rev limiter.
I wired my bee*r with my Power FC pretty simple just had to find what pins were what on the ecu. I set the rev limiter on both to about the same point might need some tweeking though.
How is it safer than a stock rev limiter? If it works in the way in which Jez Horsham has described, I fail to see how randomly scrambling the crank position signals is safer than a controlled spark/fuel cut?!
And they do fcuk up Silvi SR\'s. A LOT. They are well known for breaking rock arms left right and centre as a result of the violent ill placed explosions they create at random points in the cycle.
If I was rebuilding an engine in the not to distant future I\'d be looking to try and ensure as many of the housings/plates/rotors were in as a good a condition as possible to reduce rebuild costs to a minimum, rather than just think \'balls to it\' and see if it blows up with what is essentially a JDM tyte y0 flamer kit.
If you want to limit revs, do it using a proper method - Omex do a very reasonably priced limiter that IIRC can cut either spark or fuel.
im sorry its not safer than the standard rev limiter it basically just sounds and looks nuts but puts lots of stress on the engine as the spark ignites eveything that is in the cylinders etc one of my freinds even destroyed his turbo with his bee-r
but it all depends how much gain you run on it
I dont need a BEE R, my car just naturally puts on a show ahahahahaa
Oh look, Bee*R on an SR20...
http://200sx.kicks-ass.net/album/album.php?username=deffe&cat=6673
Yum :)
EDIT: Oh, and here\'s another:
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=260336&highlight=bee
EDIT: And another:
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showpost.php?p=1662967&postcount=7
as i already said it has different efects on different engines i know on the ca18det and rb seires engines they can handle the abuse its still not that good for them tho
but on the sr it equals fail
the question is what is it like on the rotary i can see damaged tips etc
If there is is proof that the kit does damage a rotary engine than I would like to see it. You have also think that some of the people who get the kit don\'t use it for its intended purpose and just screw around with it.
i say go for it chris! will be good to see what happens and the result of using a bee r and theres only one way to find out :)
Its all installed and sounds loud I guess now its time to drive it and see how the launching works on it.
get some vids up and keep us updated with how its going