Mazda Rotary Club

Cars by Model Type => 3rd generation RX-7's => Topic started by: FDAsh on October 17, 2008, 05:25:05 PM

Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on October 17, 2008, 05:25:05 PM
My engine\'s been taken out today and looked at by Pip. Cause of the problems was a stuck side seal on one of the rotors. Doesn\'t end there though. A previous owner has run it dry of oil, and it\'s completely eaten the bearings. I replaced one in Germany, but the front is even worse.

So the knock on effect is that the eccentric shaft is scrap too, and due to the wobble that resulted from knackered bearings, the housings will need to be replaced along with the rotor as it\'s bashed them nicely.

Sooo, starting next week, it\'s rebuild and improve time, new rotors, housings and so forth, hopefully ready mid November for December. A lovely £5k Christmas present to myself I reckon, but not one that I really wanted yet. :rolleyes:

Pics

(http://www.corsasport.co.uk/carimages/7661/DSC00878.JPG)

The rotor has been bashed where the Hand of God is pointing, jammed the seal and allowed combustion gasses past, you can see the carbon trails on the side of the rotor:

(http://www.corsasport.co.uk/carimages/7661/DSC00877.JPG)

This bit has been contacting the housing, wearing both.It\'s possible to rebuild with the housing but it\'s very weakened so might fail again.

(http://www.corsasport.co.uk/carimages/7661/DSC00876.JPG)

(http://www.corsasport.co.uk/carimages/7661/DSC00879.JPG)

You can see the marks travelling horizontally across the housing where the apex seals have been juddering due to the off balance rotation. The bronzing has occured due to someone using synthetic oil at some point, which just adds weight to the case that I\'m paying for some idiot\'s mistakes and neglect.

Also note the wear on the shaft in the first pic.

All in all, I\'m very impressed with the engine though, considering it got me to and from Germany, and around the Ring when I was over there. Can\'t wait to have it all back together and spot on for 2009\'s trip. :Giggle
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on October 17, 2008, 05:27:26 PM
Of course, if anyone has a brand new warrantied engine with good history for sale, I might be interested in hearing from you.

Particularly if you\'re up in the North West of England...
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: fil_auto on October 17, 2008, 05:30:38 PM
wow and holy ****e! - fingers crossed your rebuild all goes smoothly bud and you get her back around the time stated! Just in time to run her in and around whilst doing all your chrimbo shopping! Then again I suppose there\'ll not be much left over for that with a 5k bill for the rebuild!!! still.... it\'ll all be worth it..... and will be a lovely rebuild especially in the hands of the legend.........#;o)
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on October 17, 2008, 05:33:48 PM
I can\'t praise Pip enough for how he\'s been with me. He knows it\'s my first rotary engined car, and takes plenty of time to explain things to me. My parents gave me a lift down there today so I could see the damage and he was happy to go through it with them too.

Would recommend him to anyone.

Oh, yeah, the twin turbos were goosed too. Primary had a good couple of mm in and out play, so the ones I bought a couple of weeks ago won\'t go to waste!
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: Kevin on October 17, 2008, 07:24:39 PM
Bad luck mate.  I think that is the main problem why these cars get such a bad reputation, properly looked after they can stand up with the best of them, badly looked after..... well.... your pictures say more than I could.

Pip does fantastic work,  I took my car to him for my first rebuild many years ago, unfortunately his prices are not the kindest.  I didnt walk away with much change from £6K for a basic rebuild with street port.

But then again you know you\'ve paid for peace of mind.
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: Paul-Tll on October 17, 2008, 07:31:39 PM
Re-build, sounds more like a New-build?, bad luck mate, It\'ll be a great, full engine when all done though:wiggle
Paul.
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: Speedline Imports on October 17, 2008, 08:08:51 PM
I have a rebuilt engine, compression tested at REWORX with the following figures
Front 9.0, 8.8, 9.0
Rear 8.4, 8.2, 8.3
 
No warrenty as it was rebuilt in Japan, but it is only £1500.
 
Regards,
Martin
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on October 17, 2008, 08:11:03 PM
Yeah, I always say that you get what you pay for. There\'s no point doing things half arsed with these cars as it\'ll only bite you later on. I\'ll be having other bits done like alu radiator, so the £5k isn\'t so bad considering it\'ll be a completely fresh powerplant by the time he\'s finished.

Expect a post early next year entitled "Gearbox needed" from me :rollin
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on October 17, 2008, 08:12:12 PM
Cheers Martin, I\'m gathering offers and will weigh up what the best course of action is early next week.

Thanks for that.
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: mattfduk on October 18, 2008, 08:46:26 AM
Quote from: FDAsh;545564Of course, if anyone has a brand new warrantied engine with good history for sale, I might be interested in hearing from you.
 
Particularly if you\'re up in the North West of England...

got a cosmo re enigine built by pip with 4 k on it ported and dowled, ask pip about it or ring me 07929077185, you can have it now!
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: Tim_B on October 18, 2008, 01:08:04 PM
Bad luck mate.  Sounds like a big expensive job, but at least it should be sweet when its done :3gears-rh
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on October 18, 2008, 04:46:52 PM
Quote from: matt724;545638got a cosmo re enigine built by pip with 4 k on it ported and dowled, ask pip about it or ring me 07929077185, you can have it now!
Excuse my ignorance, aren\'t all Cosmo engines triple rotors?
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: Kash_ on October 18, 2008, 08:51:03 PM
Quote from: FDAsh;545731Excuse my ignorance, aren\'t all Cosmo engines triple rotors?

No you can also get 2-rotor engines on the cosmos, their intake design is slightly different to the FD 2-rotor and allow more power and torque from what I\'ve seen :wiggle
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: Will66 on October 18, 2008, 08:58:17 PM
Cosmo Motors have bigger intake manifold runners, which allows greater flow and more power.
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on October 18, 2008, 09:33:29 PM
Ahh I see, interesting.

So what\'s the engine code for these engines? Still 13B-REW?
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: rx7_bhp500 on October 18, 2008, 09:58:04 PM
ooh....sorry to hear this ...I feel your pain...

cure : Cosmo 2 rotor......there\'s more POOOOwer.....

:burnout
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: mattfduk on October 19, 2008, 09:52:01 AM
Quote from: FDAsh;545807Ahh I see, interesting.
 
So what\'s the engine code for these engines? Still 13B-REW?

engine code is 13B-RE
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: Iwan on October 19, 2008, 06:12:23 PM
Oh no Ashley!!

I was in hope that the rear bearing would keep it going, but things become more worth as expected like I explained to you at workshop. Hope that the Cosmo bearing I installed was fine after your trip back to UK.  

Did you got white smoke while pushing her hard?

Lucky to read you\'ve got home OK, even after few hours on Nurburgring...

Now another example why ppl. should not use Synthetic oils in Rotary\'s  

Best REgards
Iwan
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on October 19, 2008, 08:35:42 PM
It\'s a shame but the bearing you fitted was damaged again by the shaft. I\'m still glad that you replaced those parts for me, not sure if the motor would have lasted til I got back here with the old ones in.

No white smoke, just a small amount of blue.
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: Gobraa on October 20, 2008, 10:40:46 PM
"Find what caused the breakdown in the first instance,not treat the symptons(sp) as its always a costly boomarang". Once heard a wise old person say once :)
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: BlitzBoy on October 21, 2008, 12:08:12 AM
they know what caused the breakdown "lack of oil"
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: g11ary on October 21, 2008, 01:30:08 AM
Sorry to hear this has happened.

Without getting in to the great oil debate you cant just say, "there its all synthetic oils fault" if its a lack of oil, mineral or not would not have made it last longer, no oil is no oil. Synthetic would of probably had a stronger film strength and better protection, but would not have stopped the engine being damaged.

Hope shes back on road soon.
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on October 21, 2008, 05:47:50 PM
The issue is not which oil, but the fact the engine has been run with no oil in it. That\'s what\'s damaged the bearings, that\'s what\'s caused the EC to wobble, and that\'s what\'s lead to the rotor hitting the housing and jamming the seal.

Pip remarked on the colour of the housing chrome, and mentioned that it\'s a dead giveaway of synthetic.

My point was that if someone\'s been careless enough to use synthetic, or even let it run empty, then it\'s no surprise it\'s led to this rebuild. And I therefore don\'t blame the technology, it\'s (previous) operator error.
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on October 21, 2008, 05:48:58 PM
Quote from: BlitzBoy;546319they know what caused the breakdown "lack of oil"
Possibly referring to me having some work done on it here in Germany, but that was more to keep it going than fix it.
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on November 19, 2008, 05:37:00 PM
Well I had a lovely phone call from Pip yesterday...

Cosmo engine is in and running spot on, had some issues with overboosting and a misfire but he\'s cured that after a few hours on the dyno.

So, it\'s all running sweet now, fresh standard twins on, almost brand new engine. He\'s done a conservative map, boosting at 0.85bar, and it\'s making 374bhp at 7000rpm, and almost 300lb/ft at 3000rpm. :D

Managed to keep the sequentials too which is a bonus, wasnt sure if he\'d have to go non-sq due to the Cosmo inlet being close to the solenoids.

Only bad bit is that I\'m not back in the UK til next month, so my old man gets the first shot. No doubt he\'ll be on the phone gloating by weekend :rollin
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: karl_tate on November 19, 2008, 05:57:32 PM
thats a great result,

amazing power figures as well for .85bar
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on November 19, 2008, 06:00:05 PM
He says if we pushed the turbos it\'d see 400+, with a single it\'d go over 500.

Have to thank Matt for selling me such a well built engine tbh. Looking forward to his three rotor if this is the standard he gets on a double.
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: mattfduk on November 19, 2008, 06:26:37 PM
thanks for the kind words ash
my 3 rotor should be at Pip\'s this week and as i have sold everything i own to fund the 3 rotor i hope its a winner, if its not i will cry!
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on November 19, 2008, 06:55:23 PM
Well if you need somewhere to live, you can crash at mine for the time being :rollin

Nurburgring\'s not far away ;)
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: koopturbo on November 20, 2008, 04:03:31 PM
:(Hello Ash, Can i say agen, I\'m realy sorry to hear this. And can i add, from your 1st post were you say "previous owner", it was not me. When i had this RX7 i NEVER EVER ran it dry of oil and i NEVER EVER ran it on synthetic! I know better! I allways keeped on top the the oil!! And i change the oil more then i had too. As i told you when you came to look at her. I thort i had a good engine as this is what Pip told me the 1st time i  took her to WGT just after i got her. And the times after that, as i alway asked (as you do). I\'m not blaming Pip as he can not see in side the engine with out taking it apart. And he could have not helped me more when i had the RX7.

Glad you have shorted it out and i wish you all the best in the future.

I loved that car and i\'m sad to see this :(

Leighton
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on November 20, 2008, 07:06:34 PM
Don\'t worry Leighton! I said I didn\'t blame you, it\'s someone a while ago, maybe even in Japan. I\'m fully aware you took care of her.

Thing is that it\'s impossible to know about the fault as compression isn\'t affected until it goes wrong as it did.

But anyway, she\'s back, better than before. :D
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on November 21, 2008, 07:17:35 PM
(http://www.corsasport.co.uk/carimages/7661/IMG_0595.JPG)

The End. :Snoring :Giggle
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: FDAsh on November 21, 2008, 07:18:12 PM
Forgot to add,

Thanks for the lovely oil cap Matt ;)
Title: Engine\'s been opened, problem found...
Post by: peterwolds on November 21, 2008, 07:41:20 PM
good result