Well on Saturday I lost an Apex seal :( so the car is off to Dorset again for engine failure investigation:Grrr
There goes the chance of running at Japshow then :(:2Confused
Someone that seems to have worst luck then me :( feel for you buddy. What a pain in the a$$
Hope Matt and Tim can sort it soon.
bummer dude, did you have chance to get fully mapped in the end?
What a bummer :(
bloody hell matey - thats terrible news :(
Don\'t really know what to say. Hope you get it fixed and back quickly. Terrible news.
Unbelievable - you obviosuly weren\'t driving it fast enough! :spank
Is it under warranty?
Sorry for you mate and especially at all the work done so far. We have had an horrendous last few months with engines going pop, weather? Hope its an easy fix and cheap!!! get it fixed soon though, you may still gt to Japshow Finale or the NEC show ?
Total bummer - can\'t believe this is happened - seems to be something in the air near us - as I know of one other rotary engine also with problems (and not mine).
I was hoping to park next to you at the next Reading meet - hope you get it sorted soon Mark.
I\'m not even going to bother starting mine up in the present cliamte!!! :evillaugh
Out of interest, How much roughly is a rebuild kit for the TII? Around £900-£1000? Excluding housings etc.
I know you won\'t need a full kit I\'m just getting an idea of price.
You can\'t really tell until you take it out - its never just the engine parts that need replacing, there will be some other aprts that need to be replaced too.
oh.. bad news!
hope u get it back up n runnign soon =)
Quote from: adereed;530253Out of interest, How much roughly is a rebuild kit for the TII? Around £900-£1000? Excluding housings etc.
I know you won\'t need a full kit I\'m just getting an idea of price.
I\'ve seen seal kits for as little as £250-£300. If you have to replace a rotor housing - then they would be nearly £300 new - chances are you may only need 1, and if you\'re lucky or doing a rebuild before it lets go then you may well be able to reuse your old ones.
After that you need an engine stand and a plate for mounting the 13B on. Then it\'s just all the usual sealants, hylomar, some vaseline or similar substance to hold the seals in place whilst you rebuild it, and a clean workspace to put it all together.
There are a few \'special tools\' needed for cracking the engine open - Haynes guide has some details as does the Field Service Manual - and you should also get the rebuild DVD\'s to help you along :)
I\'ve got a block with a blown tip (front rotor) so would need 1 housing and 1 rotor straight off plus the full seal kit. The motor has done 77k (in miles) so the other half should be ok fingers crossed. I honestly thought the kits were more than that. I\'ve even been looking at importing a kit cause I thought they were really expensive over here.
Quote from: Prof;530071Total bummer - can\'t believe this is happened - seems to be something in the air near us - as I know of one other rotary engine also with problems (and not mine).
I suspect I know who you\'re refering too... :)
Yeah, yours goes, and then mine and Sadgoth go pop on the same day..
As stated elsewhere, sorry to hear this dude! Especially as you\'ve only just got it back!!
Oh I\'ve got the room and normal tools and an engine stand that should fit (if not I\'ll make it fit). Anything special i\'d have to beg steal or borrow!
man thats bad luck all over again, sorry for you
So what happened Mark? Why did it go?
Was it a mapping error? or component failure?
My condolences, really really gutted for you..
Hopefully you won\'t have to wait long as I\'m sure Tim is curious to find out why.
Quote from: adereed;530407Oh I\'ve got the room and normal tools and an engine stand that should fit (if not I\'ll make it fit). Anything special i\'d have to beg steal or borrow!
you need a big 54mm socket to crack the flywheel nut off, air gun will be good or a long long bar for torque
Bad luck mate and i know how it feels. I hope mine hasn\'t gone or i\'m going to be rolling around front wheel drive for a bit longer than i hoped... This must be the season of broken rotarys!!!
Socket wont be a problem i\'ll get one from or through work. Is there anything else?
Quote from: BlitzBoy;530528you need a big 54mm socket to crack the flywheel nut off, air gun will be good or a long long bar for torque
Yeah you can use a transit hub nut remover, apparently its very common compared to the other sockets around that side. Also the thing that I found more difficult than the flywheel nut was the eccentric shaft bolt.. The bast. was on tighter than anything I\'d tried before with loads of threadlock on.
If the engine is in the car then you can carefully rest the breaker bar on the side of the engine bay/wing and crank the engine over to break the threadlock (Cheers for that one Antnic)
If its out of the car you have to find a way of stopping the flywheel/crank from turning whilst putting the mother of all torque on the bolt... well, we tried everything, heat, big Impact Wrench, breaker bar with me standing on the engine, pry bar between the flywheel bolts... The only way we got it done in the end, was to get a 1.5m long steel box section and drill holes in it at one end, then bolt it to the flywheel, then get a 2m long scaffolding pole over a large breaker bar and let my large mate yank it down. Should do it easy now, but we did try a lot before hand..
The rest of it is just standard bolts and nuts so its very relaxing in comparison
Also get one of these;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DVD-DIY-REBUILD-YOUR-ROTARY-ENGINE-Rx7-13B-Turbo-Non_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em63Q2el1177QQhashZitem260280527640QQitemZ260280527640
:D
cheers guys! Well to answer a few questions:
1) no never did get it fully mapped, just mapped on low boost to a safe and very rich map
2) not sure on the warranty front - I guess it depends on what caused it tbh - kind of hoping we\'ll come to some sort of "arrangement"
3) no idea what caused it yet, I was changing up (I was being careful on the amount of boost I was using as the Blitz SBC had just been fitted but wasn\'t set up so I wasn\'t being heavy on the loud pedal) as I came off the clutch I heard the dreaded tractor sound and felt a distinct loss of power. Limped it home (about 1/2 mile) too the plugs out in each rotor seperatly to discover the front rotor now makes a puff...puff...sss rather that the more preferable puff...pufff....puff of the rear rotor.
BTW new housings are now £600 each from Mazda - they have re-structured their parts pricing scheme!
Quote from: sadgoth;530802cheers guys! Well to answer a few questions:
1) no never did get it fully mapped, just mapped on low boost to a safe and very rich map
2) not sure on the warranty front - I guess it depends on what caused it tbh - kind of hoping we\'ll come to some sort of "arrangement"
3) no idea what caused it yet, I was changing up (I was being careful on the amount of boost I was using as the Blitz SBC had just been fitted but wasn\'t set up so I wasn\'t being heavy on the loud pedal) as I came off the clutch I heard the dreaded tractor sound and felt a distinct loss of power. Limped it home (about 1/2 mile) too the plugs out in each rotor seperatly to discover the front rotor now makes a puff...puff...sss rather that the more preferable puff...pufff....puff of the rear rotor.
BTW new housings are now £600 each from Mazda - they have re-structured their parts pricing scheme!
Yeah Mazda have helpfully put their parts catalog up by over 100% >:(
get the housings from rhdjapan.com they are still at jap prices £314 plus duty shipped via air, you may find the housings are fine and you have only warped the seals, could be lack of oil lube rather then det as you were only cruising
I hope so, but I have been running approx 100:1 premix so oil lube shouldn\'t be a problem. It does sound as though one seal isn\'t sealing anymore! I hope I have just either cracked or warped the seal and it is still in place, if so the I should get away without any housing or plate damage.
Ho-hum...
fingers crossed for you dude
also along with rhdjapan prices for housings, you should try one of Garys Gasket sets very good price £135 squids plus you can actually reuse the most of the seals (viton) if you have to split the block again http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/RotaryArt_engine_kits_for_Mazda_RX7.html
cheaper and better then the Mazdas stuff now
well, the AA took the car down to Tim\'s yesterday and Tim has looked at the boost controller and Microtech readings, it appears that the boost spiked to 1.94BAR !!!!!! Which would do it We now need to strip it down and see what\'s left of the front rotor & housing!
I also need to find out why the WG failed to open if the boost controller was switched off with no restriction in the air flow through the solonoid. Ho hum, I\'m taking Friday off work to go to RX Motors and see WTF is going on
1.9 bar:2eek:2eek guess that would do it.
What make of wastegate was it Mark?
Turbosmart so it is a decent WG and it was working fine off the spring but as soon as the SBC went in (even though it was off and therefire not interrupting air flow in the boost pipe) it managed to hit 1.9 Bar! Weird thing is I didn\'t even have my foot on the loud pedal very much as I hadn\'t set up the boost controller. The Dash unit went up to 6psi and I came off the throttle so the spike must have been a split second, but hey a even a microsecond at that boost level I gues would be enough. More investigation is needed...
Quote from: BlitzBoy;530873also along with rhdjapan prices for housings, you should try one of Garys Gasket sets very good price £135 squids plus you can actually reuse the most of the seals (viton) if you have to split the block again http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/RotaryArt_engine_kits_for_Mazda_RX7.html
cheaper and better then the Mazdas stuff now
Have you used one of these seal sets? No way better than the Mazda set.Good for cracking plates on FD engines.Ask gary how much R&D he has done.:Talking1
Mark\'s car will be fine once we have boost control.and rebuild the engine! Guess the apex seal went through the turbo,as the wastegate was shut.
Quote from: Timrxmotors;537138Mark\'s car will be fine once we have boost control.and rebuild the engine! Guess the apex seal went through the turbo,as the wastegate was shut.
:eek: let\'s hope not, could really do without having to rebuild the turbo!
sounds like a open wallet and drop pants situation :(
Thats not looking good Mr Goth - will mail you tomorrow to get all the gory details... :(
well tomorrow will tell, I\'m off to RX Motors to strip the engine and see what damage I managed to cause :o
Quote from: Timrxmotors;537138Have you used one of these seal sets? No way better than the Mazda set.Good for cracking plates on FD engines.Ask gary how much R&D he has done.:Talking1
Mark\'s car will be fine once we have boost control.and rebuild the engine! Guess the apex seal went through the turbo,as the wastegate was shut.
Why are they good for cracking plates Tim? Is it because the water seals are stronger they don\'t break, and as a consequence the plates end up taking the strain? (Kind of like if you use a 1.3bar radiator/coolant cap instead of a 0.9bar one it doesn\'t fail early enough and causes more overheating damage?)
Or is it just \'cause they don\'t fit properly? :)
Quote from: sadgoth;537128well, the AA took the car down to Tim\'s yesterday and Tim has looked at the boost controller and Microtech readings, it appears that the boost spiked to 1.94BAR !!!!!! Which would do it We now need to strip it down and see what\'s left of the front rotor & housing!
I also need to find out why the WG failed to open if the boost controller was switched off with no restriction in the air flow through the solonoid. Ho hum, I\'m taking Friday off work to go to RX Motors and see WTF is going on
Sorry if I\'m being stupid (as this is more of a question of how the boost controller works) but surely if the boost controller is off (but still plumbed in) then the actuator solenoid will always stay closed, then the actuator/wastegate will never see positive pressure, and not open? Or is it the other way round? That its always flowing through until a signal triggers it to shut?
(I know this wasnt exactly the case with you, as you said it was working fine for most of the time)
If the latter then maybe something earthed or shorted out and caused it to close up long enough to overboost? Or maybe something like a sticky WG?
Anyways would be useful to hear what you find (if you don\'t mind!).
Quote from: BenLewisMav;538487Sorry if I\'m being stupid (as this is more of a question of how the boost controller works) but surely if the boost controller is off (but still plumbed in) then the actuator solenoid will always stay closed, then the actuator/wastegate will never see positive pressure, and not open? Or is it the other way round? That its always flowing through until a signal triggers it to shut?
(I know this wasnt exactly the case with you, as you said it was working fine for most of the time)
If the latter then maybe something earthed or shorted out and caused it to close up long enough to overboost? Or maybe something like a sticky WG?
Anyways would be useful to hear what you find (if you don\'t mind!).
If the boost controller is off, the wastegate should see only spring pressure - so you can still make boost - just not as much.
Quote from: Prof;538501If the boost controller is off, the wastegate should see only spring pressure - so you can still make boost - just not as much.
that was my understanding too, who knows the answers should become clear today
really isn\'t good news! :(
so damage report:
2 broken apex seals
1 destroyed housing
1 destroyed rotor
1 destroyed turbine wheel from a brand new turbo :Grrr
pics of the carnage to follow when my PC plays the game:
ouch!!
thats gotta hurt =(
bloody hell matey - really sorry to hear that :(
pics of the mess that is my fornt rotor, housing and turbo!:Grrr
check ou the damage to the apex seals in the second pic!
Any sign of any overheating/ damage on the rear Mark or is it just limited to the front end?
Kevin
just the front, rear was in tip top condition!