ok so there are lots of people even just on here who have spent a considerable amount on the engines in the fd, me included,
but why is there almost no fd\'s with tripple rotors,
when i first got my rex i never knew much at all about rotors and when i phoned up about a 20b i was told expect to pay £20k
so i just got 13b rebuilt and single etc,
but are there big drawbacks for fiting the tripple because they can be picked up for cheap enough, presumably £x1.5 cost to rebuild from a 13b.
so cant imagine it being soley down to cost.
im thinking weight but is there a big diffrence?
and by the time you have went single, removed half the crap you dont need and put battery in boot etc is it that much diffrent.
any sugestions peeps
Presumably its the actual cost of initial fitting of the 20B in the Fd that puts people off. It isnt easy from all accounts and the whole process is custom fabrication. Thats where your 20K goes.
If it want for that im sure we\'d see alot more :)
As you say, the engines arent too expensive when they turn up.
Chris
Its Labour costs with these conversions, fabbing engine mounts and making sure its mounted rearward to keep the balance, then new ECU either Microtech or Motec or Haltech, depending what single you have you may need a new turbo to suit along with a new exhaust manifold, so you can see it soon adds up, if you did all the labour yourself including the fabbing you might get away with 7-8K in parts
so ignoring all the fab work mounts / exhaust etc as thats no probs
and if i was to use my t78 greedy turbo
what would the costs be then
im guessing
managment + fule upgrades inj pump etc
fiddily bits changing stuff to run in the fd
and the rebuild
even at £7-£8k thats still less than ive spent on my 13b
but again im guessing people have spent near enough 20k on a 13b?
so why not a 20b,
could it be that people think oh ill just do this, then, ill just do that, and its way out of hand before they relise it.
im kinda wishing i had stumped up a few extra k and gone 20b, as when i started 500bhp would have been a lot, but now my mates evo just ran 706bhp DOH! but i dont think ill be far behind him anyway in a race,
and as mentioned the potential 50% increase in rebuild costs when/if they go pop..
And the fact that you can get the same kind of power by spending the money on a larger turbo + supporting mods at a fraction of the cost.
ok that is true but when you want to take it past 500bhp is it not then cheaper and easyer to get it from a 2.0 than a 1.3?
and rebuilds on the rotory are cheap enough anyway as long as you keep a check on engine and rebuild when compresion drops before it pops,
shurey the same mods on a 20b than a 13b would result in more power in the 20b
ie if you did same ports same turbo etc etc then you would end up with more power on the 20b.
so besides cost is there any down sides? heat , weight , etc??
Biggest downside I see is everyone whinges about 17 to the gallon a 20b will delivery 7-9 to the gallon. Same turbo would be a waste on a 20b as it flows more air and the turbo from 13b would be out of puff. But yes generally a 20b will be more powerful than a 13b just in sheer torque.
T78 on a 20B would just suck toooo small for that engine, you need a T88 or T51 or GT42 at a minimum.
When I quoted 7-8kk that didnt include the engine rebuilld of the 20B
cannot understand why people want more horsepower but the law saying" 70 mph max" and moaning aboot speed cam/gatso along any A/B road!!!!!
by the way, 20B\'s fab motor as it\'s great on the race truck:) and not on the road:(
Quote from: RotorHeid;527352by the way, 20B\'s fab motor as it\'s great on the race truck:) and not on the road:(
What makes you say the 20B is not great on the road? dont hear cosmo owners complain lol
Quote from: BlitzBoy;527361What makes you say the 20B is not great on the road? dont hear cosmo owners complain lol
that\'s good point!!Blitz
Cosmo owner\'s very safe cos it\'s own bodies e.g Cosmo/20B engines= ahh top Rotary car! and nothing\'s match that;)
Quote from: weejimmy;527333ok that is true but when you want to take it past 500bhp is it not then cheaper and easyer to get it from a 2.0 than a 1.3?
and rebuilds on the rotory are cheap enough anyway as long as you keep a check on engine and rebuild when compresion drops before it pops,
i don\'t think checking the engine all the time would keep the cost of a rebuild down, with a car running big bhp you\'re more likely to have a big failure causing a full on rebuild.
tbh i think its all about the n/a 20b. Hayward rotary did one from rx8 internals i believe, not sure how much it cost. But not running boost means less stress.
Then again im guessing you want masses of power. The best way to do this reliably (dare i say it) is drop a v8 in there :(
Biggest down side ????
Fuel costs :rollin:rollin:rollin
Quote from: RotorHeid;527352cannot understand why people want more horsepower but the law saying" 70 mph max" and moaning aboot speed cam/gatso along any A/B road!!!!!
by the way, 20B\'s fab motor as it\'s great on the race truck:) and not on the road:(
erm yeah because we all todel along at 70mph . . .:driving
no point in v8 imo as if i wanted big power piston engine id buy a cosworth.
as for not being good on the road im shure thats down to the engine its self on a engine to engine bassis, but again i would have thought a 2.0 700bhp would be beter than a 1.3 700bhp etc
Quote from: RotorHeid;527352cannot understand why people want more horsepower but the law saying" 70 mph max" and moaning aboot speed cam/gatso along any A/B road!!!!!
by the way, 20B\'s fab motor as it\'s great on the race truck:) and not on the road:(
Errm - the limit may be 70, but there\'s nothing about how quickly/slowly we\'re allowed to hit that limit... :D
besides - extra power makes for safer/quicker overtaking - how much fun would it be if everyone overtook the way lorries do on the motorway? ;)
money.................................. is the biggest downside. I speak from experience
"tune the nos timing and you will do nines" :rollin
ok
thanks peeeps sounds good
only real dowsides involve cash,
yep you got it cash, you want to do a 20b conversion properly no shortcuts as they tend to bite you in the ar$e.
So custom subframe to position the engine to the rear, reposition the gearbox which will involve redoing the powerplant frame, custom prop, big turbo, ECU, new custom engine loom, plumbing (intercooler pipes,exhaust), adj coilovers to correct the added weight of the 20b, a good tuner to map the bl**dy thing,
for sale
1 sister 1 mother and a few cousins
any takers
Is your sister fit? post pics please :D
do a search on username Normski WGT did his conversion of the 20B, was a verry rapid car
Quote from: BlitzBoy;527515Is your sister fit? post pics please :D
do a search on username Normski WGT did his conversion of the 20B, was a verry rapid car
ooooooooh naughty naughty :Hammer
So any pics then ??? :Laugh
lol
nah no pics that would stop you bidding lol
ok any fit cousins? lol
Quote from: BlitzBoy;527524ok any fit cousins? lol
few days in Ibiza and you come back a slag :InLove:Nono!
na just frustrated, they dont want to know unless you speak spanish
well you look the part, just pretend youve lost your voice, or just go to a really loud club
the triple that normski had is for sale as far as i know, a reliable 700bhp cosworth motor now that would take some doing and money !!!! (http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m468/tinker--27/dynorun.jpg) and thats with no turbo
Isn\'t the pink panther for sale at the moment. All it needs is spraying to the colour of your choice unless of course pink is your choice. 20b already done worse case it may need a rebuild but atleast you don\'t have to pay to convert it.
My rotary mechanic has a 725rwhp 20B single turbo road car. The only problem he has is traction. I should realy get some pics of the workshop and that car on here.
Quote from: Timmy;527663Isn\'t the pink panther for sale at the moment. All it needs is spraying to the colour of your choice unless of course pink is your choice. 20b already done worse case it may need a rebuild but atleast you don\'t have to pay to convert it.
It needs a bigger turbo, the TO4R is too small on it, T51 SPL I say on the Pink Panther and some more mapping job done
hmmm lets see....
20b - 3k
rebuild of said 20b - 4k?
turbo kit - 1.5-2k
management and mapping - 2k ish?
thats 11k before youve forked out on a subframe...or cutting the bulkhead and putting in some sort of cage....
oh and lets not forget labour....
Quote from: Timmy;527663worse case it may need a rebuild
Its recently been rebuilt, so I would imagine just running in unless thats now done
Friend is seriously into his cosworths and to be brutally honest the 13b is a better engine at boost. He has a 500bhp (ish) setup and the wait for boost was crazy. I could have made a cup of tea during the wait :Giggle
Rx7club has a 20b section, worth having a read !
Shaun
the pink panther needs a lot more than a spray job.
prob save a stake load of cash / effort buying a already converted one id guess.
cosworths can be tuned well into the 1000bhp league and 800bhp daily drivers are doted around sweeden not crazy money as its mostly standerd internals. but more than a rotory thoe,
and i think 13b is beter engine too
Quote from: antnicuk;527763the pink panther needs a lot more than a spray job.
it does? care to elaborate please Tony? :) It looks pretty damn complete to me!
The last time i saw that car it was in a picture of Ross\'s garage at Dragon performance.
Its funny how the car got everyone attention and we still go on about it even though it hasn\'t been on the road in ages.
Adam
spray job , graphics removed, body kit removed, and a stack dash so you can get rid off all the dials and see where your going....
thats personal prefrence not NEED to be done thoe
Quote from: weejimmy;527791spray job , graphics removed, body kit removed, and a stack dash so you can get rid off all the dials and see where your going....
You\'re in my heart;)
let go and join your local motorsport club and go hillclimb/sprint(10 location in Scotland)
the one place near to you in Sept 27/28th at Doune hillclimb(last British championship round).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giuU5mw0MWs brill sound.
ha ha i somtimes go to these to watch
i want to get into racing the xr2\'s at knockhill but dont have the cash as i just bought a house doh!
Quote from: Jit;527789it does? care to elaborate please Tony? :) It looks pretty damn complete to me!
not in a public forum, i would hate to upset somebody ............... again :2Confused just my personal opinon