Hi,
First post on here so go easy if i\'m asking stupid questions :driving
I\'m looking at getting an FC3S Turbo II, I\'ve found one for what I think is a decent price... £1500ono for a 1991 G-reg Uk spec roughly 60k miles (pending accurate reading tomorrow), new brakes and tyres all round. Paintwork is a bit faded but i\'m more interested in the drive than the looks.
The car was MOT\'d and passed with no advisories, then the engine blew 200miles later :2Rolleyes. The owner then had the engine rebuilt, and is now selling it. The rebuild was done by rx motors at a cost of £1500, to quote the owner:
Quoteas for the engine a took a tip out with near enough took the entire engine out (http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/images/smiles/icon_pale.gif) but thats why i drove all the way to dorset as rx motors are well known as being one of the best engine (rotary)rebuilds out there and thats why it cost £1500 because it had all new mazda gear put in the rebuild (http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/images/smiles/icon_thumleft.gif) so you dont need to worry about the engine even the gaskets are mazda (http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/images/smiles/icon_thumleft.gif) so everything inside the engine is brand new
Only snag is, the engine is still out of the car. So I was thinking maybe I could try and fit it myself? Bearing in mind I have fairly limited mechanical experience (oil changes, brake discs/pads etc) and ZERO experience with rotaries, am I insane to even think about this? The car comes with a haynes manual which the owner says will be fairly easy to follow, he used it to remove the engine himself.
Alternatively, does anyone know of anywhere, preferably near sheffield or shropshire (where the car is and where I am respectively) that could install the engine for me? And what costs would I be looking at roughly? Or would it be easier and cheaper to just buy one with an engine in it like a normal person :evillaugh. I like the idea of a newly recondition engine due to the reputation of these cars and the relatively frequent rebuilds required.
And obviously, with no engine in it, I can\'t test drive or even have a ride in it... is there anything I should look out for, and any tips for inspecting the car without being able to drive it?
Cheers :driving
Dave
What kind of timeframe are you looking at? My workshop is in GL10 3RF Stonehouse, Glos (Bond\'s Mill Garage), which isn\'t too far out of the way of your journey if you need a hand. Drop me an email to ben_s_lewis AT hotmail.com if you want to arrange/talk about anything.
Cheers, Ben
Thanks for the reply, have you ever done an engine change in an FC turbo before? Is it the kind of thing that can be done in a day if you know what you are doing?
If I was doing it myself it\'d probably take me a week or more, I\'d be going slowly and working things out as I went. But if you can do it in a day or two, would you be interested in doing it for me on a fixed price or per-hour basis? I would obviously be there as I want to learn as much as I can about the car and can help if you need an extra pair of hands etc, but as said i\'ve got very little experience.
It would probably be end of august i\'d be looking to do the engine swap.
EDIT - just noticed your in Gloucester - about 2hrs south of me and the opposite direction from sheffield! So might be too expensive to get the car all the way down there, though I haven\'t looked into costs or ways of getting it moved yet, will see if it\'s much more expensive
Yes providing no hitches you could get the job done in a couple of days. I\'ve just spent the last 18 months rebuilding an FC from the ground up and have done several engine swaps and extensive modifications previous to that, but am always happy to get more experience.
Do you have number I could contact you on? I think it would probably easier
The engine install is simple enough, I have done at least 4 in the last year. You will need a second person but experienced guys can do it by themselves. You will need an engine hoist for starters and a jack. The car should ideally be on axle stands as high as possible enless you have a ramp or pit. Is the gearbox out or in ?
£1500 for a rebuild is very cheap even for a TII, the seal kits are £600 so I doubt they renewed any of the housings, just the apex seals, still good for another fews years yet though. personally if you have very limited mechanical skills then for safety reasons it might be best to let someone else do it. There are loads of FC chaps up your way and I am sure someone will read your thread and lend you a hand.
Thanks for the replies :Thumbsup!
BenLewisMav will PM you my number early this week once I\'ve found out about insurance etc and had all my questions answered by the seller, no point discussing things further if I find a reason why I can\'t buy it. To be honest I would prefer if someone closer to sheffield could do it simply because it would be so much cheaper to trailer it somewhere close than getting it all the way to gloucester, but it\'s certainly not out of the question, and I really appreciate the offer :cheers
The engine rebuild does seem quite cheap, but he did (according to him) take the engine out himself and obviously it wasn\'t put back in - the £1500 was just for the rebuild of the engine, if that makes much of a difference. I have asked for a receipt of the rebuild so I can find out for sure, and asked if the gearbox is in the car though I assume it is as he only mentioned the engine being out.
Anything else I should ask the seller before I go all that way to view?
Cheers
Dave
check it for rust !!
get under neath and bang the living hell out of it !
Most important thing you need to do is make sure they have ALL of the parts -no point buying it if they have lost bolts, valves etc.
Look at this thread (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13751&highlight=Turbo) - I brought a TII that needed reassembly a few years ago :wave
Is there a list anywhere of all the bolts, valves etc that it needs? Or a guide to installing an engine would be helpful just so I can read through it and see what\'s involved, learn a bit more about the cars etc. I\'ve had a bit of a search and can\'t find anything for FC\'s.
Also is there anything that I should plan to do while the engine is out? Like I know rotaries don\'t have timing belts but is there anything similar I should look at getting done, bearing in mind the car and engine have been sat for a while since the rebuild.
What sort of price should I be looking to pay? Does £1500 sound good or should I try and get it cheaper?
Few photos of the car:
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/andykxkid/IMG_0384.jpg)
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/andykxkid/IMG_0383.jpg)
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/andykxkid/IMG_0400.jpg)
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/andykxkid/IMG_0401.jpg)
Well I remember this car from a while ago, chap was trying to sell it then. Interesting number plate though but the car does look in good condition.
Really? Don\'t supposed you know where the thread is if it\'s still about? Got a few more Q\'s answered today, it is infact a 1989 FC Turbo2, not 91 as he originally said. And it\'s done 70,000 miles. He cant find the receipt for the rebuild but said he will get in touch with rx motors for it. Got some photos of under the carpet and the undercarriage too for the rust, a bit rusty underneath but i\'m not sure if this is to be expected with these?
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/andykxkid/Picture138.jpg)
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/andykxkid/Picture139.jpg)
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/andykxkid/Picture140.jpg)
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/andykxkid/Picture142.jpg)
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/andykxkid/Picture145.jpg)
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/andykxkid/Picture144.jpg)
At first glance that doesnt look bad at all. Really hard to tell though. The place that seems to suffer is the front corner of the sill, where it bends up into the wheel arch. Try pushing your finger into the gap at the front of the sideskirts and poking the sill. Also, the outside edge of the floor pan (where it meets the sill) often rusts first as when the interior gets wet, the water tends to collect and sit in that edge. The floorpan looks really good in those photos, but I cant actually see the bit I\'m talking about in them.
I guess one advantage I have is that I still have all the spares from a white TII I broke a while back, all the ancillaries (alternator, water pump, etc) and nuts and bolts.
With regard to the engine;
This isn\'t a definative test, but it will tell you if something is definately wrong:
Get some mineral oil (or better still if you have it, 2 Stroke oil) and pour some into both bottom spark plug holes (this may require a length of hose), then turn the engine over by hand. Keep turning it over and adding more oil, do this a few times until you know its got a nice amount in there. As you turn it over you will notice a \'whoosh\' noise as the rotor compresses air and forces it out of the engine. What you are looking for is a fair bit of resistance as you turn the engine over (screwed engines are very easy to turn) and even sounding \'whooshes\'. This is fairly dependant on the speed you turn the engine over, so try to be consistent. If you feel one is making a different noise from the rest (not as loud, or it is far easier to turn the engine over in that area) then you can try getting a torch and visually inspecting the apex seal through the spark plug hole. It may take some lining up, but I could tell using this method that a previous engine had blown an apex seal and would need a new rotor and likely a new housing before I had even taken anything apart!
Also if the engine has been sitting for a while, adding some 2 stroke oil (I use Valvoline Outboard Motor Oil) will help protect the engine from moisture and stop things from seizing. It also helps build compression when you come to start it for the 1st time. To be honest he should have done that anyway and if he hasn\'t and its just been left to sit in his garage/shed then it could be worth knocking some money off of the asking price.
(p.s. isnt shrewsbury down my way?)
The bloke who\'s selling has gone on holiday now so nothings going to happen for a couple of weeks, going to go and view it when he gets back. To be honest though I don\'t think I want to pay over £1000 for it considering it\'s non running, no mot/tax, paintwork isn\'t great etc. Or am I being cheap? :rollinNot sure he will let it go for £1k. There\'s another on Pistonheads for £1750 which is running and had a rebuild 18k ago, but I\'ve gotten the idea into my head that I want to get my hands dirty and do a bit of a project now :chat
Shrewsbury is nearly 2hrs drive due north of you. Though I\'ve looked into it and it\'s not much more expensive to get the car trailered to gloucester than it is to shrewsbury, so if you wouldn\'t mind having it at your workshop until it was running it\'s a definite possibility. Will give you my number (when I find the PM system on this forum!) so we can discuss times, logistics, payment etc once i\'ve viewed and decided whether to buy it or not :cheers
Dave
Just for reference, Dave (and to save you from further hunting :D) - the PM system is reserved for full members...
Thats not too bad with the rust but you need to poke it a bit more lol the coupes like mine are notorious for rust, the convertables are better as they have extra heavier sheets of metal underneeth as they have no roof for strenght, it does seem to be ok though, so you are lucky :)
Well looked like this was off as the owner had decided to keep it and put the engine back in when he came back off holiday, but he\'s now decided he has to sell!! And offered me the car and everything else he has rx7 related (including haynes manual, aluminium bonnet from a convertible fc and the private plate) for £1000. Sound like a good deal? Or should I be worried that he was keeping it and now suddenly decided to sell again? I\'d probably be buying it without viewing as getting up to sheffield and back will be another £50 and I dont know enough about these cars to really tell me anything just by viewing a non-runner :rolleyes:
BenLewisMav, if you\'re still interested I\'d like to talk to you about doing the engine install. I\'m not 100% sure on buying it still as I need to look into the finances but if I do I\'ll be looking for it to be a bit of a project and uprate things while the engine is out (not sure what yet as I have no clue when it comes to rotary tuning!). So a) are you capable and would you be interested in doing the tuning as well, and b) if so do you know of somewhere near you that I could store the car (dirt)cheap whilst its being worked on? Because I probably can\'t afford to do everything at once depending on how much tuning parts cost (i\'m guessing a lot) so it\'ll be an ongoing project and the car would have to stay in gloucester until the engine is running and in the car. My mobile number is 0 7 9 3 0 . 6 7 9 8 1 1 or you can email me at dave5526 (@) hotmail.com if you want to talk :Thumbsup!
i spoke to the chap ages ago i was gonna buy some parts of him
from the pics it does look in pretty good condition
if he can PROVE a rebuild and the engine is good then its not a bad deal - just a shame you have to drop the engine back in
Yeah, in a way I dont mind that as I would like to get my hands dirty and learn about the car/engine, but it\'s all extra expense as i\'ll need help and obviously have to get it trailered somewhere.
Last time I spoke to him (a while ago) he didn\'t have a receipt for the rebuild but was going to speak to rx motors (i think it was) about getting a copy, I wont be buying it if he can\'t produce one and I may try and speak to rx motors myself and see if they remember anything about the work they did.
How much roughly would the car be worth as it is but with the engine in, assuming the engine is perfect and has had a full rebuild and there are no other problems? Just wondering why he doesnt put the engine back in himself and tax/mot it if it will be worth as much as he says it will.
I haven\'t got a clue how much its worth but it does sound a bit suspicious to me. if he could make a lot more money with just giving up a bit of his time i would of thought most people would opt to make as much money as possible. As far as the engine goes give Tim a ring he\'s very helpful
Thanks
Lee