Mazda Rotary Club

I am trying to gain feedback on the amount of engines that have been lost in RX-8\'s and why, whilst I realise this will not be completely proportionate to the vehicles out on the road this poll may at least give us a feel.

Please click on the poll above if you have had a replacement engine due to Water seal failure, loss of compression, or "other"

If other please click the poll and then state below,

Also if through loss off compression, please state milage below.

Please could I ask that only people who have experienced failure of some type that has actually led to engine replacement either in or out of warranty please,

Many thanks for your help

I trust Clive won\'t mind me adding in some related information.

Your feedback would be greatly appreciated, and just to keep you up to speed...

Mazda North America (MNAO) have just announced and extended engine warranty \'core\' for all RX-8 RENESIS Engines, the core is rotors, seals, bearings, eccentric shaft and housings.

This warranty period is 8 years or 100,000 miles (160,000KM), and is retrospective for ALL RX-8\'s ...Including the soon to be released face-lift (09) RX-8.

MNAO have also just opened a MMC (Mazda Japan) staff trained
re-manufacturing plant in the US for RENESIS Rebuilds.

Mazda Canada has also announced the same 8 year warranty.

We have had quite a number of engine failures here in Australia, ignition issues and are petitioning Mazda Australia for a similar extended warranty plan.
Presently we have a 3 year unlimited kilometer scheme.

Thanks
Ash

I don\'t think anyone on MRC has had a replacement engine in an 8 - you might want to ask the guys on the RX-8 Owners Club.

My dealer is one of the biggest in Europe and they have only had one - a woman who didn\'t check or fill up her oil!

Quote from: AMH;506235I don\'t think anyone on MRC has had a replacement engine in an 8 - you might want to ask the guys on the RX-8 Owners Club.

My dealer is one of the biggest in Europe and they have only had one - a woman who didn\'t check or fill up her oil!

Women eh?  :Giggle

i havent heard of many 8\'s going, there are some running fine with 200k on the clock

After contacting Mazda I have been issued the following information for publication conserning the warrenty length of U/K and Europe RX-8\'s

Thank you for your  e-mail dated 13 June 2008 addressed to a number of Mazda Motors UK Limited employees.  
 On behalf of everyone that you addressed I will be as open and honest with you as I possibly can  in respect of your enquiry.

 
The extended warranty in the US was taken on commercial grounds to help boost RX-8 sales in the States and to match competitor warranties, the basic warranty in the States remains at three years, 60,000 miles with the balance being an aftermarket warranty.  The US market is very different to ours in the UK and Europe and extended warranty terms are not unusual as a marketing initiative to drive sales.
 
In the UK and Europe we believe that a three year warranty is both competitive and in line with the market expectations and we do not anticipate changing that position.  Mazda has always had a very good reputation for reliability and durability throughout Europe which has been evident through a number of notable awards such as JD Power Customer Satisfaction, and it is this level of reliability that will continue with future product.
 
I would stress that if a UK Mazda RX-8 customer experiences an engine failure outside of the 3 year / 60,000 mile warranty, due to a manufacturing defect, we will always look at each case and where appropriate assist customers with their repair costs.  Although to date the number of such cases is very low, we will continue to apply this policy.  

Will they disclose the number of failures I wonder ?

If it\'s low enough it would be good publicity in a time when cars with poor economy are suffering for sales and value thanks to the escalating fuel costs.

Quote from: essexgirlracer;509617i havent heard of many 8\'s going, there are some running fine with 200k on the clock

Probably cause of the fact that they arn\'t turboed, I mean if you look at the RX7 and RXs before that, the FC turbo II, mild boost, 100-125k, FD, higher boost with twin turbos, 75kish. So basically the ammount of boost put into a rotary is inversly proportional to the engine life, ie less boost is longer engine life :)

Personally I think they should put the turbo back onto the rotary, you don\'t buy a rotary for fuel economy now do you?

Quote from: Red and Single;513240Will they disclose the number of failures I wonder ?

If it\'s low enough it would be good publicity in a time when cars with poor economy are suffering for sales and value thanks to the escalating fuel costs.

It\'s a very good point but we could probably only ever get findings from the first couple of years even if they would disclose this because engines have now been rebuilt or changed out of warranty so we can never get a true figure,

One thing is apparent is that with the info I already had plus the polls on here and the RX80C the number of complete engine replacements is very very low in proportion to the amount out on our roads when I think that around 30,000 are out there romping around here and Europe.

From talking to some of the guys who have had their motors replaced some of the issues are to do with the Nikasil coated housings, similar in fact to what happened with either BMWs M52 or M54 engine (can\'t remember which one but it was their straight six).  There were faults with a few on manufacteur and this has resulted in the housing breaking down and loss of compression leading to needing a new motor.  It\'s certainly a question very much of "if" and not "when" the engine will need rebuilding.

A year later and Engines are "popping" like flies in the US and everywhere else.
The real flaw are two fold, carbon and apex seal lubrication.

Owners are not Squirting the RPM\'s out high and often enough, too much Carbon is jamming Seal Springs.

But more seriously the centre of the Apex seal is not being lubricated, thats why the big changes to the Series 2 RENESIS.

So even if you get a new engine from Mazda it\'s not going to change the internal flaw in your engine (series 1 RENESIS).
No matter how many PCM flashes you have had the oil is just not making it to the centre of the Apex seal tip and this is wearing into a concave apex seal which is blowing back and hence poor compressions.

I suggest anyone with a new or low mileage 8 engine to start pre-mixing a good quality 2stroke oil into your fuel at 3 mils per litre, anything less and you are wasting your time.

If you have an old engine over 30,000 miles forget it, the damage is done.,sorry.

And NO, Mazda will not fit a Series II (R3) RENESIS into a Series I car as the engine electrics have slightly changes and PCM. Electric Metering Oil Pumps, etc.
They just won\'t do it.

Quote from: clive;513299It\'s a very good point but we could probably only ever get findings from the first couple of years even if they would disclose this because engines have now been rebuilt or changed out of warranty so we can never get a true figure,

One thing is apparent is that with the info I already had plus the polls on here and the RX80C the number of complete engine replacements is very very low in proportion to the amount out on our roads when I think that around 30,000 are out there romping around here and Europe.

Clive the World Wide Engine Count replacement is now 50,000, about one third of the cars made....Mazda NOT happy...

So much for the Bulldust MME told you....

My dealer is one of the biggest in Europe and I was chatting to them a couple of weeks ago about this when my car was in for its 4 year service & MOT. They say they have had some RX-8 engines go pop but with just about all of them they had suspicions or evidence that the owners were not looking after them properly.

So drive it properly (don\'t over rev when cold and beep it a couple of times most journeys) and keep the oil topped up and should be fine. Obviously only time will tell if that\'s good advice but I swear mine is driving better than ever four years on.

Shame I\'m about to have my fifth set of replacement alloys!

I have a 05 plate RX8 in at the moment that i know has been looked after all its life, as i know the owner well, and hes just poped his motor, hes well educated on rotarys and loves his cars so he looks after them.
Needless to say it requires a new block.

Is the oil metering system significantly different in the Renisis then?

Mine went bang, engine being replaced under extended warranty.  A lot have failed because the oil pipes that supply the rear rotor oil injectors get clogged apparently.

Quote from: Hayward North;589630I have a 05 plate RX8 in at the moment that i know has been looked after all its life, as i know the owner well, and hes just poped his motor, hes well educated on rotarys and loves his cars so he looks after them.
Needless to say it requires a new block.

Any idea why the motor went? I\'m really keen to do all I can to keep mine running (obvioulsy!) as I can\'t afford any major repairs or a nice new R3. The joys of being a Banker - and now working in the public sector! :rollin

Quote from: AMH;589644Any idea why the motor went? I\'m really keen to do all I can to keep mine running (obvioulsy!) as I can\'t afford any major repairs or a nice new R3. The joys of being a Banker - and now working in the public sector! :rollin

It looks like an oil line problem as there is a lot of oil on top of the block.
Also the symptoms were it started to smoke really bad from the entire engine, out of the wing vents, out of the back of the car, under the bonnet and inside the car so im guessing maybe a oil line has fractured and spilled oil on the top of the engine resulting in masses of smoke and now very low compression.

I think premixing would have saved the engine after the oil line fractured.

This is all guesswork as we haven\'t pulled the engine yet and dont plan to for a few weeks.

Quote from: Hayward North;589665This is all guesswork as we haven\'t pulled the engine yet and dont plan to for a few weeks.

Keep us updated - be good to know what went wrong.

Quote from: AMH;589621My dealer is one of the biggest in Europe and I was chatting to them a couple of weeks ago about this when my car was in for its 4 year service & MOT. They say they have had some RX-8 engines go pop but with just about all of them they had suspicions or evidence that the owners were not looking after them properly.

So drive it properly (don\'t over rev when cold and beep it a couple of times most journeys) and keep the oil topped up and should be fine. Obviously only time will tell if that\'s good advice but I swear mine is driving better than ever four years on.

Shame I\'m about to have my fifth set of replacement alloys!

I guess it all depends on the word "some" and how many that is?

Mazda US has set up a reman plant because they are having that many go.

I guess it was just a matter of time before reports of failed renesis engines came out. To be honest they are high performance cars for cheap money and people just dont look after them. I think Mazda should have upped the price and exclusivity (sp) and possibly power ;) I think mazda are going to be very busy this year. Good news for the rotary builders I think.

Quote from: AMH;589677Keep us updated - be good to know what went wrong.

Hi Ann

The Car in question was driving fine with no symptoms at all, then started to misfire really badly till is was almost undrivable, but no smoke and an engine warning light on the dash.
The owner contacted a Mazda garage that told him the handbook said it was ok to limp home.
10miles into a 15 mile journey home the car started to produce masses of oil smoke and and eventually just stoped.
On testing the engine we found almost no compression on the front rotor.
We fitted a 07 engine and the coil packs that came with the new engine to the car.
When fired up with the new engine the car had an engine warning light on, the car drove fantastic with no symptoms at all.
on further investigation on the engine warning light it turned out to be the front coil packs but the car felt fantastic to drive.
We took the old front coil packs off the old engine and fitted them to the new engine and it produced a massive misfire and the same engine warning light.
We swapped them for the old rear coil packs and the engine warning light disappeared.
The failed coil packs probably caused the engine failure.

Moral of the story ?
If you get an engine warning light sort it mediately.
If you get a missfire dont do what mazda says and drive it home, stop and get it recovered.

What reminded me to update this post is i have another RX8 with the very same symptoms of engine failure and also one that is just starting to produce a slight missfire and a occasional engine warning light.

So in the space of 2 months iv gotten 3 RX8 with similar symptoms.

Quote from: Hayward North;596574Moral of the story ?
If you get an engine warning light sort it mediately.
If you get a missfire dont do what mazda says and drive it home, stop and get it recovered.

Thanks - that\'s really good advice.

Quote from: Hayward North;596574Hi Ann

The Car in question was driving fine with no symptoms at all, then started to misfire really badly till is was almost undrivable, but no smoke and an engine warning light on the dash.
The owner contacted a Mazda garage that told him the handbook said it was ok to limp home.
10miles into a 15 mile journey home the car started to produce masses of oil smoke and and eventually just stoped.
On testing the engine we found almost no compression on the front rotor.
We fitted a 07 engine and the coil packs that came with the new engine to the car.
When fired up with the new engine the car had an engine warning light on, the car drove fantastic with no symptoms at all.
on further investigation on the engine warning light it turned out to be the front coil packs but the car felt fantastic to drive.
We took the old front coil packs off the old engine and fitted them to the new engine and it produced a massive misfire and the same engine warning light.
We swapped them for the old rear coil packs and the engine warning light disappeared.
The failed coil packs probably caused the engine failure.

Moral of the story ?
If you get an engine warning light sort it mediately.
If you get a missfire dont do what mazda says and drive it home, stop and get it recovered.

What reminded me to update this post is i have another RX8 with the very same symptoms of engine failure and also one that is just starting to produce a slight missfire and a occasional engine warning light.

So in the space of 2 months iv gotten 3 RX8 with similar symptoms.

A bad coil pack will not cause poor engine compressions...this is wrong advice, nor will bad coils cause a lot of smoke/oil from the engine/exhaust.

Yes the 4 coils were defective..this is well known.

But for the engine to have poor or no front rotor compressions, the Apex seals were shot and possibly side a seal.

A new coil set/pack will not fix poor engine compressions.

BTW: the reason for bad compressions are a flawed MOP set up, 2 nozzles per rotor are not enough. That is why Series II and the 16X has 3 per rotor and two EMOP\'s.

YOU MUST PRE-MIX, for many owners it is too late as the damage to Apex Seals is already done in any engine over 50K (miles).
Apex seal face are wearing into a concave shape because a lack of lubricant in the middle.

Quote from: RX-8888;596752A bad coil pack will not cause poor engine compressions...this is wrong advice, nor will bad coils cause a lot of smoke/oil from the engine/exhaust.

Yes the 4 coils were defective..this is well known.

But for the engine to have poor or no front rotor compressions, the Apex seals were shot and possibly side a seal.

A new coil set/pack will not fix poor engine compressions.

BTW: the reason for bad compressions are a flawed MOP set up, 2 nozzles per rotor are not enough. That is why Series II and the 16X has 3 per rotor and two EMOP\'s.

YOU MUST PRE-MIX, for many owners it is too late as the damage to Apex Seals is already done in any engine over 50K (miles).
Apex seal face are wearing into a concave shape because a lack of lubricant in the middle.

A failed coilpack was not blamed for poor engine compression.
Driving for 10+ miles on one rotor was sugested it may have contributed to the engine failure.
It also burnt and blocked the cat.

Not driving a car with the engine management light on is not wrong advice imo.

also the coils were not blamed for the smoke, the failed engine was blamed for the smoke.

Steve

As I said coils are well known to cause a miss-fire and CEL Light.

The OP appeared to link it a little closely to compressions, they are two totally separate issues that are not related.

Hi, i\'ve had my 2003 RX8 for about 6 months, is less than 26k milage at the moment and reading this thread is slightly worrying for me, as it is the first i have heard about pre-mixing. Time to use the search function i think, just hope i\'ve caught it in time...

Quote from: Gavin_RX8;597058Hi, i\'ve had my 2003 RX8 for about 6 months, is less than 26k milage at the moment and reading this thread is slightly worrying for me, as it is the first i have heard about pre-mixing. Time to use the search function i think, just hope i\'ve caught it in time...

Not sure you\'ll find anything Gavin - I think this is the first time I\'ve heard of this.

I\'ve got a 2004 RX-8 with 36k on the clock and it\'s in at the dealers for some replacement alloys next week so I\'ll ask them about it.

I won\'t do anything Mazda haven\'t recormended or approved as if I do have a problem in future they won\'t help if I\'ve gone against their recormendations. Doesn\'t mean it\'s not a good thing to do - I just have a really good relationship with my dealer so I trust them to give me the best advice. Plus I\'ve got extended warrenty so I have to be careful if I want to rely on that in future.

I\'ll let you know what they say.

And welcome to MRC Gavin! :wave

Thanks for the welcome! I dont have ann extended warranty to worry about, but finding the cash for an engine rebuild could prove to be a problem so will have to keep an eye on this one.

I can tell you now your Mazda Dealer will not recommend pre-mixing..

I have had over 35 years experience with Mazda as both a Parts Manager and Service Adviser..

Here is a large link on the subject from the US site, keep in mind our engines (internals) are identical worldwide.


http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=99636

Why pre-Mix, as stated the original Oil Metering Pump is not delivering any oil to the middle of the Apex Seal, why do you think Mazda have added a Middle oil Injector in the 2009 Series II RX-8\'s? (R3), and TWO Electric Oil Pumps, not the one Mechanical on the Series I.. because it was not getting sufficient oil to the middle of the Apex seal...But hey...don\'t believe me...trust your Mazda dealer..

The existing MOP in Series one has 2 Injectors for each Rotor Housing, they weep oil ONLY to the edges of the apex seal, not to the centre.

By pre-mixing into your fuel you are adding additional lubrication for ALL of the combustion areas of the rotor and it\'s housing.

You will find on the US site, particularly from "teknics" a rotary Owner and Mechanic who works at a US Mazda Dealer...he also 100% positively recommends Pre-mixing, to use his words there are only "Positive Results" when you do so and NO "Downside" to doing it.

If you care to look at most RX-7 Club Forums many of the owners also Pre-mix.

Those who Race rotaries also add much larger amounts of oil to their fuel...I wonder why?

Engine failures (poor compressions) are occurring in RX-8\'s around the $50K mark on average.

Here is a Pic of the New Oil injector set up (from Mazda Japan\'s Media Site) for each rotor housing on the series II RX-8 (R3) with EMOP.

Notice the middle (third) injector, Series I 2003-2008 all have TWO Injector Nozzles exactly in the same position shown in this 2009 Pic, both weep oil to the outer edges of the Apex Seal not the middle.

(http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=43425&stc=1&d=1239156208)

Quote from: RX-8888;597073But hey...don\'t believe me...trust your Mazda dealer..

It\'s not that I don\'t believe you - I just know that if I do have any problems and I\'ve done anything Mazda don\'t recormend then the chances of them helping me out are zero.

Mazda have always been really great and helped me out with a few things - including actually getting me my car in the first place as my original one was destroyed in the factory fire back in December 2003.

I just don\'t want to risk it as it\'s still under warrenty.

Believe me a dealer is not going to know if you pre-mix..
Again I suggest to you Ann, look around the US site a little...in the Tech section.

Quote from: RX-8888;597128Believe me a dealer is not going to know if you pre-mix..

And you don\'t think Mazda and most dealers read these forums? Mine certainly does - not that I\'m saying anything just to keep them on side.

Quote from: AMH;597130And you don\'t think Mazda and most dealers read these forums? Mine certainly does - not that I\'m saying anything just to keep them on side.

My local service dealer also stated that he visits MRC at least once a week.
Makes you wonder if they are just keeping check, looking for problems or just extending there knowledge.

Is this commom, my car has full service history from new. I have owned it for 2 years. it is a 2004 registered model.
Any advice on what i should do, the cost of repair is in excess of vehicle worth.

Quote from: tim farrar;607469Is this commom, my car has full service history from new. I have owned it for 2 years. it is a 2004 registered model.
Any advice on what i should do, the cost of repair is in excess of vehicle worth.

Sorry to hear this, is it common? (I could put up an average percentage but some don\'t like hearing it).

Have you had your car serviced at any Mazda Dealer?, if so you could approach the dealer to represent you in discussions with Mazda UK.

Or approach a dealer anyway, they may be able to suggest a suitable outcome, either way it is going to cost you, you may have to pay a percentage, say 50%, the rest Mazda may pay as "Good Will".

Unfortunately Australia (where I live) and the rest of the world does not have the 8 year warranty like North America/Canada has.

Failing that you have to find a Rotary Expert Garage who can do rebuilds.

I am sure someone here can assist you...good luck.

Quote from: tim farrar;607469Is this commom, my car has full service history from new. I have owned it for 2 years. it is a 2004 registered model.
Any advice on what i should do, the cost of repair is in excess of vehicle worth.

dont worry dude. My 8 is an 04 with 63k full service history and drives like new. Im not worried about all the above as i have just spent 3k on bodywork mods lol

^^^^

Don\'t worry Dude???


My RX8 has had an engine failure at 60k
Read the post agian..
This person has a blown engine at 60K and wants advice and help.

Looks like a first post to me for whom I was talking to!!!!!

oh sorry i forgot that soon as a 8 hits 60k on the engine its game over for it and its all downhill.

RUBBISH!!!!!!!!!!!!

^^^^What Ash said!!

I have a 53 plate with 53k on it and had it re-mapped at Re:worx a couple of weeks ago. It ran 220bhp stock! (apart from induction kit and sorry don\'t have the print out) Believe it or not, I think that is not really so much down hill over 50k miles. After the re-map and a new exhaust and hi-flow cat I creamed an R3 just this weekend and even a 55 scooby turbo couldn\'t get past off the lights on a 2 lane national limit (although to be fair I couldn\'t get past him either).  

I\'m not worried at the moment either. I\'m just going to drive the car and look after it as recommended and best I can. If it goes it goes! apparently its too late anyway.
 
I will be getting a magnet though because they seem pretty cheap, it sounds like a perfectly good reason for doing it and can\'t do any harm.

Shame RX-888 lives in Australia or we could see whos engine is better:flamed

what is the actual cost of rebuild for a RX8 engine ??

I suppose it depends where you take it Re:worx engine build page (http://www.reworx.com/engines.htm) says upwards of £3000 for a FD3S TT. I imagine a renesis would be around that price but it would probably depend on the extent of the damage and the parts needed and therefore the labour hours to put it right.

Surely with a renisis you\'d just buy a new short block from MAzda (if it came to it) and get the warranty etc?

That is a good point but aren\'t they like £6k from Mazda? rotaryart (http://http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/New_Mazda_RX8_engine_perf_tuning.html) has 4port and 6port brand new engines but not sure about any warranty and they run £3-4k just for the block.

Seems that going new might be a lot more expensive than a rebuild and I\'m sure I found on Google a place in Essex which will complete a refurbished engine replacement with 1 year 10k warranty for like £2500. However I cant find that now so I may have dreamt it!:Hammer

Quote from: nicktyler;607864Seems that going new might be a lot more expensive than a rebuild and I\'m sure I found on Google a place in Essex which will complete a refurbished engine replacement with 1 year 10k warranty for like £2500. However I cant find that now so I may have dreamt it!:Hammer

You didn\'t dream it,

The company is just tearing low compression engines down replacing only Apex seals (tips) and putting them back together.

BTW a brand new 230 engine from Mazda is £2889.20, not a rebuild/ recon, a brand new engine.

In the light of Clive\'s superior knowledge it seems that that the new/rebuild is quite a tricky decision as they seem to be similarly priced.

I was thinking rebuild before but am now leaning towards buying a new engine from Mazda and getting a specialist to fit it or does that screw any chances of warranty?

Anyway I might need this soon as I am seriously considering putting a turbo on my 50k engine:eek:

Maybe I\'ll just buy a new engine now and keep it in the shed untill I need it. A couple of weeks after the turbo is fitted!

When mine blew I got a new one from Mazda under extended warranty.  Mine had done 71k on an 04 plate.  I paid labour for fitting but I got a new motor for under £1000!  Seems like a decent deal to me.  And mine\'s fairly well modded too!

Quote from: RX-8888;607486Sorry to hear this, is it common? (I could put up an average percentage but some don\'t like hearing it).
 
Have you had your car serviced at any Mazda Dealer?, if so you could approach the dealer to represent you in discussions with Mazda UK.
 
Or approach a dealer anyway, they may be able to suggest a suitable outcome, either way it is going to cost you, you may have to pay a percentage, say 50%, the rest Mazda may pay as "Good Will".
 
Unfortunately Australia (where I live) and the rest of the world does not have the 8 year warranty like North America/Canada has.
 
Failing that you have to find a Rotary Expert Garage who can do rebuilds.
 
I am sure someone here can assist you...good luck.

Have the full service history, with a Mazda main dealer, my car ran like new too, then one day 60k on the clock, engine warning light comes on. I immeadiatley drive the car to an authorised dealer (10 miles - engine light on (not flashing)with slight loss off power). They put it in on the diagnostic - report said EPS problem, check coil pack, HT lead or spark plug. Advised that car would be okay for me to driver to my regular garage (approx 20 miles). Needless to say it didnt make it. The car just lost power after about 5 miles (and I really was treating it gently). I had it towed to the garage, to be informed loss of engine compression plus cat burnt as well. All this in the space of 15 miles. The cost to repair is £5,300 - pretty .... dont you think, even the diagnostics didnt help and probably contributed to the cat needing replacing. So just how many more out there with similar problems!

Quote from: tim farrar;610087Have the full service history, with a Mazda main dealer, my car ran like new too, then one day 60k on the clock, engine warning light comes on. I immeadiatley drive the car to an authorised dealer (10 miles - engine light on (not flashing)with slight loss off power). They put it in on the diagnostic - report said EPS problem, check coil pack, HT lead or spark plug. Advised that car would be okay for me to driver to my regular garage (approx 20 miles). Needless to say it didnt make it. The car just lost power after about 5 miles (and I really was treating it gently). I had it towed to the garage, to be informed loss of engine compression plus cat burnt as well. All this in the space of 15 miles. The cost to repair is £5,300 - pretty .... dont you think, even the diagnostics didnt help and probably contributed to the cat needing replacing. So just how many more out there with similar problems!

Just confirms what iv been saying all along.
I did post this up a while ago about 3 RX8\'s that i have got in have had coil packs fail, then dealers or the handbook has told them its ok to drive home or to a garage and they haven\'t made it, all within 20miles and all ended up needing engines.
2 of them had no symptoms apart from the engine light and one had loss of power, all the engines failed on the way home/garage .
Makes you think that my previous claim "Failed coil packs can make your engine fail" maybe has some weight.

Maybe all the unburnt fuel is washing the engines and then they wear to the point of failure within 20miles ?

Ah well i have another one in atm with the same engine warning light on and missfireing , changed the coil packs the car now runs fine.

Quote from: tim farrar;610087Have the full service history, with a Mazda main dealer, my car ran like new too, then one day 60k on the clock, engine warning light comes on. I immeadiatley drive the car to an authorised dealer (10 miles - engine light on (not flashing)with slight loss off power). They put it in on the diagnostic - report said EPS problem, check coil pack, HT lead or spark plug. Advised that car would be okay for me to driver to my regular garage (approx 20 miles). Needless to say it didnt make it. The car just lost power after about 5 miles (and I really was treating it gently). I had it towed to the garage, to be informed loss of engine compression plus cat burnt as well. All this in the space of 15 miles. The cost to repair is £5,300 - pretty .... dont you think, even the diagnostics didnt help and probably contributed to the cat needing replacing. So just how many more out there with similar problems!

Seeing you are talking to me and I did Comprehend your original post correctly, you seemed to have got the bad end of a run around..

Have you approached Mazda at all?

Did they perform an actual compression or vacuum test?
If they did and comp. are low a rebuild is all you can do.
As Clive once said many of these so called engine failures were either coils, leads, spark plugs or battery or all of it.
The actual engine replacement/rebuilds due to lost compressions is quite high.

Quote from: steve garbutt;610129Just confirms what iv been saying all along.
I did post this up a while ago about 3 RX8\'s that i have got in have had coil packs fail, then dealers or the handbook has told them its ok to drive home or to a garage and they haven\'t made it, all within 20miles and all ended up needing engines.
2 of them had no symptoms apart from the engine light and one had loss of power, all the engines failed on the way home/garage .
Makes you think that my previous claim "Failed coil packs can make your engine fail" maybe has some weight.

Maybe all the unburnt fuel is washing the engines and then they wear to the point of failure within 20miles ?

Ah well i have another one in atm with the same engine warning light on and missfireing , changed the coil packs the car now runs fine.

If a Mazda dealer does a proper compression (@ 250 RPM) or Vaccum Test outlined by Mazda Japan and it fails then the engine is stuffed...it has nothing to do with coils or leads...though I know what you mean and I agree with you..:rolleyes:

I really struggling to understand eneryone\'s issue here. I bought the car because it was different. The engine is unusual which makes it "exotic". As an engineer the engine has very few components, and is relative simple to rebuild, and cheap in comparison. A normal similiar horsepower / performance engine would use exactley the same oil / fuel. My Skyline / Supra / Mercedes / Boxster would cost far more to rebuild, and twice as much to insure and service. If you can\'t afford it then go back to the hot hatch and live with the compromise. I lost £10K in value in 2years on my last car, and a Bill between £1000 and £1500 to service for each year. Plus a much higher insurance. An RX8 engine is £3K new, and about £1500 to rebuild. You lot are getting this engine a bad name for no reason! I really don\'t understand the issue here.

^^^^^^ What he said!!!!:Thumbsup!

Completely agree with you Freeman - and welcome to MRC! :wave

There\'s a meet comming up near you if you want to meet some fellow rotorheads: http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=629424#post629424

Thanks for the heads up on the meet, and the welcome.
Hopefully I will be there on Saturday.
 
Leigh.

Quote from: Freeman38;629396You lot are getting this engine a bad name for no reason! I really don\'t understand the issue here.

Hello Leigh and welcome to MRC

I\'m very pleased to say that you have waffted in like a breath of fresh air with your comments above, thankyou :D

£5300 for a rebuild ????

Damn thats very high unless you can do it yourself, or was that a quote from Mazda ??

My nephew has just bought a RX8 2003 with 60k on the clock so will have a look at it when i get round to it :o

£5300 for a rebuild?  You can get a new engine fitted by Mazda for less than £5k!

You could buy a car with £5,300 ;) :Giggle

Quote from: GreySilver Beast;632526You could buy a car with £5,300 ;) :Giggle

Actually you\'re right - RX-8\'s around for that sort of price now.

buy the car take the low mileage engine out sell the rest off on flee bay get a engine for less than 2 k :wiggle happy :driving

There`s you all thinking I do`nt know anything about RX8`s :Giggle

My engine ran low on compression on the rear housing due to bad oildelivery to the apex. After talking to mazda europe and japan, they gave me a new engine with new cat.

Quote from: KrisD1;633878My engine ran low on compression on the rear housing due to bad oildelivery to the apex. After talking to mazda europe and japan, they gave me a new engine with new cat.

Yep that is the issue, poor delivery to the Middle of the Apex Seal, it will kill all Series I\'s earlier that it should.

That is why Pre-Mixing (2 stroke oil in your Petrol) is your best friend.

Some don\'t like what I say, and I am not trying to Bait or upset anyone, but the reality is Mazda got is wrong on the Series I., this is a fact.

Every other rotary engine made that had MOP Injectors in Rotor Housings (FC and FD RX-7) had a Middle Injector for the Middle of the Apex Seal, the Series I RX-8 does not have this...yes they have 2 side angled injectors which lubricates the Ends of Apex and Corner Seals, but the oil does not make it to the middle of the seal.

Series 2\'s or R3 does..

I\'ve a sneaking feeling ours has killed a seal, off to Hayward for a compression check shortly...

Clubbed it? :)
 
One of the problems that has occured is that the oil feed pipes to the rear rotor get blocked and no oil from the Oil Metering Pump gets through.  Other things include knackered coil packs delivering insufficient spark and the engine overfuelling to prevent knocking and washing away the oil lubricating the rotor housing.

Quote from: Will66;589633Mine went bang, engine being replaced under extended warranty.  A lot have failed because the oil pipes that supply the rear rotor oil injectors get clogged apparently.

As a prevention I have always added a small amount of ROIL by neways (its a type of Teflon coating; it works brilliant in injection moulding tools where heat and friction is an issue) I add Roil to my engine during routine top ups of oil.  And I believe that the Teflon coating probably saved my engine.

Recently whilst on the motorway and yes I was revving hard! the oil light came on.  Which at first glance I took to mean that my antics had burnt a lot of oil and it was hungry.

I did drop my revs back to under 4k and figured I will top up when I get off the motorway. I drove about 3 miles on this plan.

When I checked the oil level, it looked empty according to the dip stick, but I figured I must have smeared the dip stick as I removed it from the engine. (The dip stick on the RX8 is horrible to remove and especially to refit and often you can upset the reading as a result.)

So I decided to add about a pint of oil and take another reading from the dip stick.  The reading was same :). At that point I knew something was really wrong.

I looked more closely and discovered a lot of oil in the subframe of the car. I knew this oil was not there a 3 days ago from a recent inspection. I then looked under the car and sure enough the 8 was bleeding onto the road lots of oil.

Not only that there was a perfect trail of oil on the road from my car. I arranged for the car to be uploaded and recovered to a garage for repair.

One sleepless night and the cause of the fault was the identified as the nearside oil pipe which runs from the engine to the oil cooler. The pipe had corroded badly and failed. (metal fittings on the pipe not the rubber)

Interestingly enough Shields Mazda Glasgow had checked this problem and apparently replaced all the oil pipes and a lower spoiler as an advisory from Mazda. Clearly they billed Mazda for the work but didn\'t do it.

The other oil pipes appear to be fine.

However the failed pipe is not easy to visually inspect without dropping the sump guard which involves a lot of labour.

Also to replace this pipe you have to move one of the air-con hoses which means a costly top up of gas.

So my advice is be sure of the condition of these pipes on your RX8, and don\'t accept that your dealer did carry out the work as described.

Hopefully Mazda will pay some or all of the costs for this work but it is a grey area and may mean a good will from Mazda.  

The pipe is in horrific state of corrosion it looks like its been on the bottom of the sea bed for 20 years.  It should have lasted 15 years if it had been properly galvanised by the manufacturer.

I have been very lucky and my engine survived motorway speeds with I suspect no oil.

Adding the Roil to my engine was not recommended by Mazda, but my 8 is eight years old and has perfect compression.

 So I would say adding a little 2 stroke now and again would be an extra assurance and would on the balance of things only help to reduce wear and tear on the engine.

I wonder how many of the owners of failed 8\'s actually ran their 8 in properly?

The 1st 800 miles you were not suppose to let the engine sit at the same revs for a prolonged time. Also not suppose to take it above 5000 revs ( no fun for the 1st month or so. Also you were only to use full 98 octane fuel at the start, I think from memory you had to do this for 3 months or so.

Bare in mind that most modern engines today are bench run in and require no special treatment, so its fair to say a lot of owners will have neglected this process and red lined from the start (because its good fun, we all know why they did it, blame Mazda for making revving a car to 9500 rpm) and I hazard to say they chucked in any old fuel, because petrol is petrol and they all need to be made to a standard, right? Sorry wrong you get what you pay for in life and petrol is no exception.

I do feel Mazda should have given you a Oil level gauge rather than the stupid pressure gauge. I feel this gauge could have been serviced by a warning light.

I doubt in the cars that suffered the death of the engine that this event was pre-warned by the oil pressure gauge.

So guys check all those oil lines carefully. If you get a leak you may not be so lucky.

I wonder if anyone has tried any after market oil coolers? I did think about doing this.  I have a policy with break downs that I will usually replaced failed parts with a better quality item.

Quote from: bungobuns;760219I wonder how many of the owners of failed 8\'s actually ran their 8 in properly?

The 1st 800 miles you were not suppose to let the engine sit at the same revs for a prolonged time. Also not suppose to take it above 5000 revs ( no fun for the 1st month or so. Also you were only to use full 98 octane fuel at the start, I think from memory you had to do this for 3 months or so.

I was told all about not holding the same revs for the first 500 miles but nothing about not going over 5000 (or less as mine was a 192). Although to be fair I think it was a couple of months before I properly discovered the beep so I doubt it was an issue. Never been told anything about fuel choice.

No run in at all on the R3 although again I was quite cautious at first anyway.

Of interest I asked the Mazda Dealer head mechanic about the failed engines and he stated that the engine failures he had seen were a direct result of those oil pipes failing.

The trouble is there is no warning until it is too late.  

Frankly the material that these pipes are made of is abysmal at best. Looking at the new pipe it relies on some small sections of nylon shielding to protect it from heat. Not forgetting  a very unconvincing layer of paint which probably cant resist the heat and will disappear when in contact with any salt moisture.

Frankly those hoses are poor quality. These pipes should have been made from Stainless steel (Austententic) not carbon steel.  Even if they had galvanised the metal work on those pipes that would have been a big help.

It seems to completely replace this pipe will cost about £200.

I think it is frankly sick of Mazda to charge this price for such a poorly manufactured pipe. Congratulations to the penny pincher\'s at Mazda who saved a couple of pennies by specifying a cheaper hose pipe in the 1st place.  I am delighted that this poorly specified pipe has cost Mazda a fortune replacing broken engines.

I feel fitting an after market oil cooling system now is not just a cheaper option but also remove a serious design flaw with the car.

But for now I will patch my 8 up with this new hose and then look into dumping the Mazda oil cooler system.

So my engine went a couple of weeks ago, Is currently being rebuilt by Hayward Rotary in Newbury, Carl Hayward was extreemly helpful and more than happy to run me through everything and even let me visit to see my engine and bits and the failed parts. My car is a 55 plate 231 with 54k mile on. I checked the oil religeously every week, but it would seem that she prob wasn\'t right when I got her and then pushed her hard cos it didn\'t have the performance that I was looking for, and the end result, Cracked Apex seals, this is what mine looked like when I went to see them:
 
Cracked Apex Seal
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e55/S_M_J_89/IMAG0189.jpg)
 
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e55/S_M_J_89/20110704_003.jpg)
 
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e55/S_M_J_89/20110704_004.jpg)
 
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e55/S_M_J_89/20110704_008.jpg)

You might like to know that it is up and running again. I took my car into Haywards Rotary this afternoon and it was being started up for the first time.

Awesome stuff! :D Did she start straight off? I Carl called me this afternoon to say she was going again, picking her back up 2moz, can\'t wait!

First turn of the key from what I could tell.

They are good lads there, but fingers crossed I don\'t need to go back until servicing next year ;)

Awesome, can\'t wait to pick her up this afternoon, they have been brilliant, makes all the difference when the staff are friendly and passionate. Will deffo be going back there agian, (well, not untill I have made back all the money for the rebuild haha).

Apex seal broke in rear rotor mashing the remnants in to the rotors and rear housing, this pushed the e-shaft out of alignment slightly shipping one of the front rotor (in turn scoring the centre place) thanks to Haywards my car is now Awesome....