ok guys, i have a major problem with my car (Project-thread) (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40093) and need some help or idea\'s. please read the following carefully before posting...!
to make a long story short, tuning my car didn\'t go as hoped...
i\'ll try to describe the problems the best i can, hoping you will do some serious thinking with me, seeing that myself and the guys who were tuning my car, don\'t have any clue on what the hell is going on!
it all starts about 1 year ago when i had some hesitation, and went to my rotary specialist to figure out the problem. it turned out to be a malfunctioning MAF. but in the process of finding the problem we had some hoses changed or unplugged to raise boost. then it hit 0,6bar with no problems or strange noises, we changed it all back to factory boost level. i can remember this: it felt a LOT quicker!
when i started to work on the car last september, the engine was still stock, i had just removed the power steering and A/C, and put on the racingbeat sparkplugs. then i took it for a spin and heard a strange noise coming from the engine and went to check it all out. it sounded like a ticking noise when i hit full boost (stock 0,5bar)
started searching, not knowing what it could be and then i found my ****ed up turbo and thought that was it...
last friday i went to a company, who races FC\'s here in Holland, to get the car tuned.
we started out removing the factory fuel-cut and adjusting fuel @ stock boost (a lower 0,35-0,4bar due to my ported wastegate), no problems there.
all went well and we could be turning up the boost a little.
then all of a sudden, at just 0,5bar, again the same sound! they told me it was detonating like crazy... sounded like someone banging on the floor with a hammer!
we tried many things to figure out where it was coming from, but no luck.
mixture is fine, timing was at zero.
when we advanced the timing a lot, detonation no longer occurred, and we hit 0,9bar.
but then the timing was probably so advanced, that it did not really produce any more power.
they have tried building an engine with non-turbo rotors once and got about the same results.
detonating like crazy on just 0,4-0,5bar
so we compared it to a turboII engine they had, measuring the distance from the plughole to the rotors, they were pretty much the same (a bit hard to measure with the engine in the car) but not that much that it would indicate there would be the wrong rotors in my engine.
that was also almost impossible, due to the fact that i have hit 0,6bar before without any problems.
did a compression test: 6bar on both rotors and all the chambers, which is even a bit on the low side perhaps.
checked the plugs, coils, leads. they all work properly. even put on a stock pair of plugwires instead of the racing beat wires, but with those, the problem was probably even worse!
we decided to stop progress at this point and try to figure out what the problem is before we start spitting out apex seals...! at stock boost there is no problem at all, so i can run it safely for the moment.
so this strange problem was there a long time ago, and all my mods did not affect it and did not make it worse. so it would be safe to say those mods dont have anything to do with it and can be ruled out...
if anyone has any thoughts on this. dont hesitate to let me know!
Could be running too lean - with all the engine build, did you change the fuel pump or rewire it? It could be getting starved of fuel under higher boost and that could lead to running lean/hot and getting knock.
If you\'ve not changed the fuel pump or the wiring to it, I would take a look there. Also change the \'sock\' on the in tank pump.
Just read through your list of mods - see you\'ve put the walboro pump in. It may still be voltage at the pump - there is a resistor in the pump circuit - it\'s on during idle and low acceleration, but a relay bypasses the resistor and allows \'full 12v\' to the pump when your acclerating hard or when starting. As the wiring in these cars is getting old now, it could be the pump isn\'t seeing 12v on full load.
Quote from: Furbok guys, i have a major problem with my car (Project-thread) (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40093) and need some help or idea\'s. please read the following carefully before posting...!
to make a long story short, tuning my car didn\'t go as hoped...
i\'ll try to describe the problems the best i can, hoping you will do some serious thinking with me, seeing that myself and the guys who were tuning my car, don\'t have any clue on what the hell is going on!
it all starts about 1 year ago when i had some hesitation, and went to my rotary specialist to figure out the problem. it turned out to be a malfunctioning MAF. but in the process of finding the problem we had some hoses changed or unplugged to raise boost. then it hit 0,6bar with no problems or strange noises, we changed it all back to factory boost level. i can remember this: it felt a LOT quicker!
when i started to work on the car last september, the engine was still stock, i had just removed the power steering and A/C, and put on the racingbeat sparkplugs. then i took it for a spin and heard a strange noise coming from the engine and went to check it all out. it sounded like a ticking noise when i hit full boost (stock 0,5bar)
started searching, not knowing what it could be and then i found my ****ed up turbo and thought that was it...
last friday i went to a company, who races FC\'s here in Holland, to get the car tuned.
we started out removing the factory fuel-cut and adjusting fuel @ stock boost (a lower 0,35-0,4bar due to my ported wastegate), no problems there.
all went well and we could be turning up the boost a little.
then all of a sudden, at just 0,5bar, again the same sound! they told me it was detonating like crazy... sounded like someone banging on the floor with a hammer!
we tried many things to figure out where it was coming from, but no luck.
mixture is fine, timing was at zero.
when we advanced the timing a lot, detonation no longer occurred, and we hit 0,9bar.
but then the timing was probably so advanced, that it did not really produce any more power.
they have tried building an engine with non-turbo rotors once and got about the same results.
detonating like crazy on just 0,4-0,5bar
so we compared it to a turboII engine they had, measuring the distance from the plughole to the rotors, they were pretty much the same (a bit hard to measure with the engine in the car) but not that much that it would indicate there would be the wrong rotors in my engine.
that was also almost impossible, due to the fact that i have hit 0,6bar before without any problems.
did a compression test: 6bar on both rotors and all the chambers, which is even a bit on the low side perhaps.
checked the plugs, coils, leads. they all work properly. even put on a stock pair of plugwires instead of the racing beat wires, but with those, the problem was probably even worse!
we decided to stop progress at this point and try to figure out what the problem is before we start spitting out apex seals...! at stock boost there is no problem at all, so i can run it safely for the moment.
so this strange problem was there a long time ago, and all my mods did not affect it and did not make it worse. so it would be safe to say those mods dont have anything to do with it and can be ruled out...
if anyone has any thoughts on this. dont hesitate to let me know!
What ECU do you use? How can you say your timing was at 0 ?
REgards
Iwan
sorry furb i have replied on your project thread
Quote from: ProfCould be running too lean - with all the engine build, did you change the fuel pump or rewire it? It could be getting starved of fuel under higher boost and that could lead to running lean/hot and getting knock.
If you\'ve not changed the fuel pump or the wiring to it, I would take a look there. Also change the \'sock\' on the in tank pump.
Just read through your list of mods - see you\'ve put the walboro pump in. It may still be voltage at the pump - there is a resistor in the pump circuit - it\'s on during idle and low acceleration, but a relay bypasses the resistor and allows \'full 12v\' to the pump when your acclerating hard or when starting. As the wiring in these cars is getting old now, it could be the pump isn\'t seeing 12v on full load.
well, seeing that my problem started before i changed anything, i dont think thats it. but i did not rewire the pump...
but mixture is fine, lambda reads out fine, wideband shows the right A/F, EGT is normal, the external A/F probe in the exhaust reads fine.
the sparkplugs are the right colour.
Quote from: IwanWhat ECU do you use? How can you say your timing was at 0 ?
stock ECU, which we have now reprogrammed.
we checked with the timing light...
As I see it, you are getting knock or certainly something that sounds like it.
You\'ve checked AFR\'s and say they are good - they need to get richer (10/11) when you up the boost to avoid knock. They are ok being at 14 on idle, or when the ECU is doing close loop in the mid range RPM\'s.
The stock ECU will cut fuel to the rear rotor when the boost reaches about 8.8 psi - I noticed in the parts list that you have an FCD - all that does is to lie about the amount of boost reaching the engine, so your ECU will be under fuelling when that happens unless you change the ECU maps to defeat the fuel cut and allow more fuel in. Most of the \'chipped\' ECU\'s do this - it might be worth investing in a 2nd hand chipped ECU and comparing the code in the ROM with what your tuner has done - to make sure you\'ve got the fuel cut defeat in there. I wouldn\'t rely on the FCD - it\'s a stop gap to allow a little more boost - not a solution for beyond 10 psi.
Also, when you changed the plug leads back to the original, you got worse results. This sounds like the spark isn\'t strong when the boost is up and you\'re possibly getting no spark intermittently. I would check the coil packs out, and earthing around the coil packs / engine just in case that\'s also a factor. Possibly an ignition amp may help as well.
As for ignition timing - from what I\'ve read, you will need to start retarding it under higher than normal boost levels. Sounds obvious - but have you checked that leading and trailing plug leads weren\'t swapped over ?
I suspect that to manage the engine correctly with all the mods you have in place, you are going to need either a standalone ECU or a good piggy back ECU that will let you monitor various aspects of the engine (injector duty, rpm, boost, afr, intake temps, ignition timing). You should also be looking at fuel pressure and voltage at the fuel pump during some dyno runs to make sure it\'s not getting starved of fuel under load.
Furb, let me know if you need an ECU to try mate, I have several chipped ones you can try if you are desperate.
all problems are solved! turned out to be something fairly easy....
i upped the fuel pressure to 4.5bar at full throttle and replaced the plugs with NGK B9EGV. now there is no more detonation!
in a few weeks i will be updating with new pics, specs and dynosheets!
How are these plugs different to the BUR 9\'s ?
this is the b9egv:
(http://www.kartbay.com.au/UserFiles/1369-Files/Image/plugs.jpg)
Thanks, glad you got it all sorted in the end, do you plan on bringing it to the UK this year ?