Text only | Text with Images

Mazda Rotary Club

Cars by Model Type => 3rd generation RX-7's => Topic started by: Carl on January 31, 2008, 08:21:32 AM

Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Carl on January 31, 2008, 08:21:32 AM
Here is a couple of pics of a new project we are working on for a customer.

Regards
Carl
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Red and Single on January 31, 2008, 08:35:44 AM
Cool :)

NA or turbo ??
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Carl on January 31, 2008, 08:45:08 AM
Quote from: Red and SingleCool :)

NA or turbo ??

Turbo later on but n/a at first.;)
regards
Carl
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Initial-D on January 31, 2008, 09:59:43 AM
Me want! - how much for a 4 rotor conversion these days (ballpark figure)?
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: ashc on January 31, 2008, 10:40:47 AM
holy moley
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: antnicuk on January 31, 2008, 11:06:12 AM
i saw this when i visited and it is some very clever engineering
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Andy_k on January 31, 2008, 11:36:45 AM
You going to mount it in the stock position?
I\'ve been looking at the new US kits and they seem rather easy and cheap.
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: banned advertiser on January 31, 2008, 12:00:35 PM
Very nice Carl, and from what I heard nice engineering, but why?
A tripple RX7 engine would be probably cheaper, and be more tunable and capable of a lot more power.
Just curious to reason, if its just thats what the customer wants then thats cool, is it for racing?
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: strange_days_uk on January 31, 2008, 12:17:18 PM
Interesting.  Is this one of the first to be done with a Renesis ?

What are the major differences to an REW shortblock ?
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Bulla on January 31, 2008, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: CarlHere is a couple of pics of a new project we are working on for a customer.

Regards
Carl

Carl you shouldnt have ! I thought you were only building me a street port :Thumbsup!

Bulla
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: probedb on January 31, 2008, 01:07:16 PM
I\'ll have to have a look tomorrow :)
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Ricco_04 on January 31, 2008, 01:10:31 PM
I thought the renesis was all aliminium?  Looks interesting :cool
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: SiH on January 31, 2008, 01:15:22 PM
Is this Pete\'s?
Top bloke, my friend bought his old FC :) I was chatting to him abotu this very car :)
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Carl on January 31, 2008, 07:07:26 PM
The car is Pete\'s yes.
It is being buit for drfting
hew renesis is to keep noise under control and make useable powewr.
I think it is the first RX8 based triple I have seen,the 20bs that race in the states are said to be from RX8 parts but are actually just 20b pp\'s.
Regards
Carl
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Jürg Hensdiek on February 01, 2008, 05:20:32 PM
Hallo,
A nice surprise to see this being done! But the designation shouldn\'t be 20B, though as they are very diffrent. Are you using RX8 stationary gears as the centrel bearing support?
 
Thnks
 
RH
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: dthebuk on February 02, 2008, 10:17:57 PM
so has this 20b been made from 1 and a half renesis engines?
i take it u cant buy the 20b\'s there putting in the concept cars yet
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Carl on February 02, 2008, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Jürg HensdiekHallo,
A nice surprise to see this being done! But the designation shouldn\'t be 20B, though as they are very diffrent. Are you using RX8 stationary gears as the centrel bearing support?
 
Thnks
 
RH

Hi RH,
Strictly you are right yes speaking it is not a production 20b with the larger center plate but the capacity is the same as a 20b. We call it is short block 20b for ease of understanding.We are using a modified FD RX7 stationary gear and bearing for the center plate.
Regards
Carl
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Carl on February 02, 2008, 10:42:51 PM
Quote from: dthebukso has this 20b been made from 1 and a half renesis engines?
i take it u cant buy the 20b\'s there putting in the concept cars yet

Mazda did make a longer 20b 3 rotor engine that was in a car called the Cosmo,it was made from 1991 to 1996.
The engine we have done is built from all renesis parts,but the eccentric shaft is custom built two piece.
Regards
Carl
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Carl on February 02, 2008, 10:44:53 PM
Quote from: Ricco_04I thought the renesis was all aliminium?  Looks interesting :cool

Renesis is a mix of Cast Iron and aluminium the same as every other rotary that Mazda have made with the exception of the Cosmo 110s that had aluminium side plates.( Circa 1967-1972)
Regards
Carl
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Jürg Hensdiek on February 03, 2008, 03:22:18 PM
Quote from: CarlRenesis is a mix of Cast Iron and aluminium the same as every other rotary that Mazda have made with the exception of the Cosmo 110s that had aluminium side plates.( Circa 1967-1972)
Regards
Carl

Hallo,
Also, the new 16c/16x is designed with Aluminium plates
 
RH
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Ricco_04 on February 03, 2008, 10:36:02 PM
Quote from: CarlRenesis is a mix of Cast Iron and aluminium the same as every other rotary that Mazda have made with the exception of the Cosmo 110s that had aluminium side plates.( Circa 1967-1972)
Regards
Carl

Cheers for clearing that up for me - I have no idea why I thought they where all ali! :o
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Carl on February 05, 2008, 11:07:31 PM
Quote from: Jürg HensdiekHallo,
Also, the new 16c/16x is designed with Aluminium plates
 
RH

Yes it is but it is a great pity that it is not in production yet!
Should have been put into the new RX8!
Regards
Carl
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: mullins on February 06, 2008, 02:38:13 PM
Carl, where are the 6 port inlets for the centre rotor?
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: 20B_boy on February 06, 2008, 03:12:31 PM
Guess it will be PP\'d?
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: SmbFD3S on February 06, 2008, 04:03:31 PM
Very nice :D Will be interesting to see main power differences between this and an REW shortblock if they can be given....
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: BlitzBoy on February 06, 2008, 05:04:48 PM
Quote from: mullinsCarl, where are the 6 port inlets for the centre rotor?

Good point Mullins well spotted, does this mean the centre Rotor will get different air flow then Rotor 1 or 2?
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: 20B_boy on February 06, 2008, 05:57:34 PM
Quote from: BlitzBoyGood point Mullins well spotted, does this mean the centre Rotor will get different air flow then Rotor 1 or 2?
I\'d assumed it will be PP\'d, as with a \'normal\' 13B 3-rotor? Matching them otherwise could be interesting :3Confused
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: shaunwil on February 06, 2008, 06:04:09 PM
Was told by somebody else that the rx8 rotors are lighter too ! Will rev much higher too !

Shaun
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Timrxmotors on February 06, 2008, 07:26:21 PM
The RX8 rotors I have seen are no lighter than FD ones.I don\'t see any holes for peripheral ports,probably a good thing as we know how slow that would be!
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: 20B_boy on February 06, 2008, 10:20:05 PM
Quote from: TimrxmotorsI don\'t see any holes for peripheral ports
I was thinking it was a mock up block, but it looks like the poo\'d up so may be not.
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: chrisJDM on February 06, 2008, 10:29:10 PM
hang on a minute ive just though, this guy has taken his car to carl to mod and he needs to keep noise under control, surely he has taken it to the wrong place hehe :rollin
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: shaunwil on February 06, 2008, 10:51:41 PM
Quote from: sweetiewellshang on a minute ive just though, this guy has taken his car to carl to mod and he needs to keep noise under control, surely he has taken it to the wrong place hehe :rollin

Only time will tell. Bet it sounds different with Rx8 ports

Shaun
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Carl on February 07, 2008, 08:46:09 AM
Quote from: mullinsCarl, where are the 6 port inlets for the centre rotor?

There aren\'t as the end plates are from a 4 port engine.
Regards
Carl
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Carl on February 07, 2008, 08:47:23 AM
RX8 rotars fully dressed weigh 100 grams less than fully dressed FD rotors.
Regards
Carl
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Dan Norton on February 07, 2008, 12:46:04 PM
A whole 100grams hey......sooooo......not much differance at all then!?! :D

Looks a wicked project for sure, should be great for Pete and his drifting!
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: slippers on February 07, 2008, 02:01:37 PM
I have no idea about this but IF Carl is talking about the rotors then 100grams less, spinning at 3000rpm or so would make some difference?

Could someone explain it to a mechanical idiot like myself please.

Jon
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: interloper393 on February 07, 2008, 04:16:55 PM
Quote from: slippersI have no idea about this but IF Carl is talking about the rotors then 100grams less, spinning at 3000rpm or so would make some difference?

Could someone explain it to a mechanical idiot like myself please.

Jon


yeah im sure it`ll work the same way as a lightened flywheel? no more power but better trottle response and acceleration? prob me being an idiot again tho lol
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: karl_tate on February 07, 2008, 04:26:44 PM
i think that if the rotars are lighter then they are more free moving and able to rev more but i could be totally off the mark.
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Timrxmotors on February 07, 2008, 04:56:37 PM
45g difference in a bare FD rotor and a bare RX8 rotor I have here,which is nothing in the over 4kg weight of a rotor.I suspect the RX8 seals weigh more,I haven\'t weighed them,yet.
The RX8 ability to rev is more due to it\'s lighter flywheel.
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Carl on February 07, 2008, 06:38:33 PM
There are big disparities between the weights of RX8 rotors,the ones i have used weigh 100grams fully dressed less than the lightest FD rotors fully dressed that i have seen in stock form.
Regards
Carl
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: shaunwil on February 07, 2008, 06:59:07 PM
Ah right, Would have thought they will have tried to remove more mass from the outer part of the Rotor. Small amonts can make alot of difference at 9k rpm.

Learn stuff every day...

Is the Rotor in the lower bhp engine the same as the higher, or is it just the number of ports ?

How much would a bare engine like that cost ?

Shaun
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: travellinbob on February 07, 2008, 07:13:29 PM
does no-one in the uk lighten their own rotors or know of a company that can???? just out of curiosity?
 cheers, keep posting up pics carl, not too many others on this forum doing the same.
 michael.
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: leeroy_25 on February 07, 2008, 08:42:33 PM
Maybe a bit late in the day for this question?! What is the renesis engine all about? I am a little confused!

I think if I have read right that one of my questions I was going to post on has been answered. Can you take a 13B FD engine and turn it into a 3 or 4 rotor lump by bolting on additional housing? I figure some trickery may be required on the internals?! how easy is it? I imagine the fuel mapping must be a nightmare? how do you get over the electronics with the extra plugs etc or is this why they are often N/A?

Cheers
Lee
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Carl on February 07, 2008, 08:53:32 PM
Quote from: travellinbobdoes no-one in the uk lighten their own rotors or know of a company that can???? just out of curiosity?
 cheers, keep posting up pics carl, not too many others on this forum doing the same.
 michael.

Hi Michael,
Thanks for the kind comments.
We do rotor lightening and balancing is carried out for us by a specialist in the field.
Regards
Carl
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Carl on February 07, 2008, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: leeroy_25Maybe a bit late in the day for this question?! What is the renesis engine all about? I am a little confused!

I think if I have read right that one of my questions I was going to post on has been answered. Can you take a 13B FD engine and turn it into a 3 or 4 rotor lump by bolting on additional housing? I figure some trickery may be required on the internals?! how easy is it? I imagine the fuel mapping must be a nightmare? how do you get over the electronics with the extra plugs etc or is this why they are often N/A?

Cheers
Lee

We have built 3 and 4 rotor engines using all sort\'s of components from differing years.
The problem with a side port multirotor engine is that the inlet ports are vastly different in size on late engines to the middle ports,so using earlier plates balances this out,the other alternative being that we just use Perpheral ports for the inlets.
Regards
Carl
Title: New project,20b short block renesis in FD RX7
Post by: Ricco_04 on February 08, 2008, 12:18:45 PM
Quote from: CarlHi Michael,
Thanks for the kind comments.
We do rotor lightening and balancing is carried out for us by a specialist in the field.
Regards
Carl

Only asking out of interest but how much weight can be removed from, say a Turbo II rotor?  (are there any bad side affects to this?) They don\'t half seem heavy when you pick one up. When I first did I was very surprised how much they where!
Text only | Text with Images