Hello all.
Dispite my user-name, I picked up an NA FC today.
Faily chuffed overall, 10months MOT, 4 months tax, good compression (just under 6bar when cold), but I\'m having trouble starting it :(
It floods, and wont start. So far I\'ve just popped the 40A injector fuse out and cranked it over a few times, then popped the fuse back in and away it goes.
I\'ve probably had to do this 3 or 4 times (about 50% start rate). It has had the "air pump" removed/disbaled??? Would this affect it, or am I doing something wrong?
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l66/ae86pete/P1010055.jpg)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l66/ae86pete/P1010060-1.jpg)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l66/ae86pete/P1010062-1.jpg)
Also, what sort of MPG can I expect, bearing in mind its non turbo?? Or how many miles to a tank?
And what fuel should I run it on? And for the oil I\'ve read that mineral 10w40 is best, is this right?
Sorry if this is in the wrong section.
Cheers,
Ed
hi ed.
mineral 10w40, v power
and sorry to say less than 6 bar is not good at all. the closer to rebuild the more it floods im afraid :(
mine had 8 bar compression and is an fd and i have tried many time to flood it and i just cant.
not sure what to say as its just the compression thats the issue really if its that low.
Really??!?!?!
According to the buyers guide, thats ok?
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9140 (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9140)
85psi?
7 bar yes but just under 6 isnt so good. i would change the plugs at the least or give them a good clean as this will aid but as i said when compression gets low the car will be harder to start and will flood.
6bar is 87psi. Dont mean to be rude, but by your calculations 1 bar is 12.1psi?? Not 14.5?
Now you mention it, the seller did mention the plugs will need doing, completely slipped my mind :rolleyes:
not making any calculations mate, you first post says less than 6 bar compression to me that automatically points to a car that wont start easily and floods and that is what you have described.
8 bar - very good - rebuilt
7 bar - good - long life left
6 average.
low 6\'s - definate rebuild territory
below 6 - suprised to start it.
piston testers are not advised with these cars as they can vary etc but a rotary will display and measure accuratly.
Great, looks like the buyers guide could do with updating then :(
QuoteGood compression is a 7 or higher on the Mazda tester, and higher than 85 PSI on a standard gauge
So is 87psi on a standard guage good or bad?
Also, ignoring the compression, can anyone answer my other questions? :)
MPG and what to do with this air pump thing?
Cheers
Ed
The air pump isn\'t going to have anything to do with your starting/flooding problems, simply because it injects air into the exhaust as an emission control measure.
Oh, and get a compression test on a Mazda tester. MPG is pretty pointless if you can\'t start the car...
I was with Ed when we looked at this car - obviously with no history we took a gamble - however, all the buying guides we\'ve looked at say 85psi is a reasonable figure to look for.
We were getting a 3 good bounces of a tad below 6 bar on both rotors - According to every guide i\'ve seen that is rated as \'ok\'.
The thing is - when the car floods, upon removing the EGI fuse, cranking for 5s, then trying again, the engine starts first turn of the key - surely it wouldn\'t start this easily with excessive wear?
IIRC it\'s on about 120k and had an undocumented rebuild at about 90.
However, the plugs look pretty old- I\'m thinking this is worth a try befoer panicking the new owner ;)
New plugs are certainly a good idea - I vaguely seem to remember that my TII (unmodified) eats a set in less than 6k...
Well, after reading this thread
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28564 (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28564)
I\'m slighlty optimistic that is a leaky injector, so perhaps get some new ones fitted, as that would obviously improve MPG? Or should I go down the route of fitting a switch/relay to turn off the fuel pump to aid starting?
But this post on that thread has me worried
Quote from: grinderto be honest there is no real way of telling - apart from the hot and cold test :(
its easy to check the compression with a normal tester
1 - remove EGI fuse ( turns off the ignition and fuel )
2 - remove the top plug on the rotor
3 - on the tester - there will be a rellease valve - hold this in so that it wont hold pressure
4 - get someone to crank the car and dont touch anything
5 - you should get 3 even bounces on the reader - make a note of what they are - 85 psi is low compression - anything above that is good
6 - if you get 2 nice bounces and then 1 at ZERO its probably a stuck seal
i had an egi with 117K on the clock - drunk oil like it was going out of fashion ( oil seal shot ) but it ran like a dream
i did have probs with flooding - so i used to clamp the fuel line with locking pliers and then start it :D
with your fuel pump off - i would just start the car and dont touch anything
i have a imobilser on mine that cuts the fuel - so when im stopping - i let the car tick over - remove the imobliser and just as the idle starts to fluctuate ( no fuel left to run ) - i shut her off
she starts first time when you next come to start it this way :D
Stu
Anything over 85psi is good. So what about 2psi over??
If it is a leaky injector, then I\'d replace that ASAP as it\'ll bugger up the fuelling somewhat fierce. Or at least have the injectors professionally cleaned and tested if you think that this may be the problem.
Quote from: elford_timThe air pump isn\'t going to have anything to do with your starting/flooding problems, simply because it injects air into the exhaust as an emission control measure.
Nice one, cheers :) I just wanted to check
Quote from: elford_timOh, and get a compression test on a Mazda tester. MPG is pretty pointless if you can\'t start the car...
Do people have these knocking about, or do you mean go to the Mazda main dealer?
MPG isn\'t pointless, as the car always starts, it just a case of what I have to do to get it to start.
Ed:
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=446005&postcount=22
Could prove useful :)
Quote from: SiHEd:
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=446005&postcount=22 (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=446005&postcount=22)
Could prove useful :)
Saw that last night, cheers dude. I\'ll try it later today.
i\'m off to do another comp test now :(
Quote from: turbo-tasticDo people have these knocking about, or do you mean go to the Mazda main dealer?.
Mazda main dealer or rotary specialist is your best bet, although I believe that one or two people on here have one.
Quote from: turbo-tasticMPG isn\'t pointless, as the car always starts, it just a case of what I have to do to get it to start.
Weelllll. Yes, maybe, as it\'ll help you figure out if you\'ve got a leaky injector or two.
Well, I re-did the comp test and its actually just over 6bar, not just under. The plugs are fouled, so I\'m going to order some first thing tomorrow, hopefully they\'\'ll arrive before new year
I also tried the technique of 2k rpm, turning the key and opening the throttle at the same time, and so far has worked a treat. 100% sucess rate. :)
Quote from: elford_timIf it is a leaky injector, then I\'d replace that ASAP as it\'ll bugger up the fuelling somewhat fierce. Or at least have the injectors professionally cleaned and tested if you think that this may be the problem.
Where is the best place to get injectors from? Are they expensive, or should I get some 2nd hands one and see about getting them refubished?
Hallo,
Hope your problems is solved soon. Would recommend you put extra earthing cable from the chassiu to near the injectors. They are switched by interupting the earth signal at the injector. Bad earth = bad injector operation.
Good Luck
Jürg Hensdiek
Hi,
Welcome to MRC.
I would recommend mixing a little two stroke oil in with your fuel as well, I used to add around half a litre whenever I filled up. (This was on suspect cars and when running in) Every little helps.
Being an EGi you can expect low 20\'s/high teens on an average run. Low teens when given a hard time and you might just scrape 25mpg on the motorway with the cruise control on! :yes
How many miles does the car have on the clock? What sort of history do you have with it? When and where was the compression chcek carried out?
Does it still use oil? A lot of old EGI\'s use very little - this is a bad thing as it means that some of the oil injectors may have expired.
Let\'s see if we can get you motoring! :D
Cheers Brett
The car has about 120k, apparently having a rebuild done at 90k, but no history to back it up, so I\'m doubtfull tbh.
I did the compression test on the sellers driveway from cold. It was getting towards low on oil when I bought it, and after 250miles it was on low, so I topped it up.
How much do I need to use to go from low to full on the dipstick? Its usually about a litre, but I thought I should check :)
Any brand or grade of 2 stroke I should use?
Cheers for the help,
Ed.
I used to use the cheapo halfords 2 stroke oil :yes
The amount of oil used depends on how its driven - but IIRC theres around a pint between high and low...? That should be used in around 750-1250 miles. (Depending on the sort of driving stlye)
Hmmm - with no history to back up the rebuild, and the starting issues you are describing it would be best to assume the car has not had a recent rebuild. The N/A cars should show higher compression than a Turbo charged example.
:wave
Just wondering, how much does it cost to DIY rebuild an NA 13b?
And how much should I expect to pay for a decent used engine?
Also reading fron the start the compression check was done when it was cold, should be higher if you test it when the block is at running temperature. Shouldn\'t it be checked when warm ?
DIY rebuild can cost about £600+ depending on what parts you need. Do a google for rotary aviation, good resource for cost of parts and rebuild kits. Usually the guys at the top can do you a good deal too :D
I have the EGI engine in my 1st gen, a very nice little engine. I get about 18mpg on LPG and you should happily see 20mpg on petrol.
Should say too the car looks a very nice example and is very clean. Hope you enjoy it alot and welcome :D
Shaun
oops, just noticed other question. I bought my engine off tim at rx-motors. Prices are dependent on state of engine.
Shaun
yeah im sure that you should do the test when warm - although thats a prob if it wont start !