Hola,
Now payday is coming up i need to start looking for a couple of HVLP spray guns, i have had a look around ebay for abit and with recomendations ive been told DEvilbiss was a good make, i dont want to pay stupid prices for a couple of professional guns when im only going to use them once or twince, it seems a waste
anyhoo
any help appreciated, cheers!
John-
Well, a good gun does have a big impact on the quality of the result - I certainly wouldn\'t skimp on that (but then again my motto is that I\'m not going to be upset by my tools).
Another good make - which is likely to be even more expensive than Devilbiss is SATA. That said, if you take care of it properly, you should be able to recoup most of your money when you ebay the gun after using it. As long as it\'s spotless, that is.
cool, cheers for that, i was thinking of this one..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300161646134&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=020
i have two compressors, a 25ltr and a 50 that was going to chain, working psi around 90. im going for primer / basecoat but will mix the hardner in the base as i dont want a lacquered finnish
the Q is, what setup should i get, the 1mm or 0.8 and do you think this would be okay ? :)
You do realise that this is a spot gun that\'s designed to blend in small repairs and as such has a smaller reservoir? Of course I think you can paint a car with that if you very patient and don\'t mind filling up all the time. Doesn\'t help with achieving a good finish though :).
I actually do have a similar gun (a SATA Minijet 4) but I bought that specifically for painting motorbike parts so it\'s just the right size. I wouldn\'t try to paint a car with it...
lol nope, i have no clue about spraying :D
its why i need recomendations :-s
basically my sprayer has left me in the lurch so to speak, i had already started the prep work. I have alot done but unfortunatly it has come down to me needing to learn how to do a reasonable spray job by a week friday lol
Ouch. I haven\'t sprayed a car in a long time (ten-odd years) and it does require some practise. That said, I would advise to spray a clearcoat if you can as it\'ll mask a little of the imperfections that you\'ll invariably get.
BTW, I assume you\'re planning to spray cellulose paint?
Forgot to ask - when do you actually need to spray the car? By Friday or slightly afterwards?
Depending on the dates I may be able to lend a hand or at least stand around and drink tea :D.
i will be using 2K, im in the process of taking all the crappy cel ****e off and hell is it a long and arduous task. im not overly bothered if there is 1 or 2 minor marks, i do have a spray location set up so being indoors in the warm isnt a problem. as in my other respray post i got pretty nobbed by a sprayer, used wrong paint as to what i requested put miles on my car and charged me alot of cash, so i want to eradicate everything that he has done as its a constant reminder to what a total pr*ck he is, and i really do hope he is reading this right now. so i stupidly took it upon myself to arrange everything, spray location people to help getting materials, and when everything was set i went to work cutting the bumper smoothing down nitromorsing cr@p and now this obsticle has surfaced...
such is life eh !
I have limited time due to booking holliday at work, and unfortunatly it being the last of my holliday its either now, or next year, im kind of on a deadline to get it finnished due to spray location not being avalible after a set date and said person that was going to help me spray coming over so it was all well planned, but then spanners began to collide with cogs and im now stuck where i am
If you\'re spraying 2K, I assume that you do have the appropriate breather setup? You do know that standard 2K (not the water-based stuff) uses a hardener that contains isocyanides? Not very pleasant stuff, that is, to put it mildly.
Also, check what the FAD (free air delivery) of your compressors is. Trouble with most HVLP guns is that they need a lot of air so chances are that you can\'t really run a normal-size gun off your compressors anyway.
Quote from: elford_timIf you\'re spraying 2K, I assume that you do have the appropriate breather setup? You do know that standard 2K (not the water-based stuff) uses a hardener that contains isocyanides? Not very pleasant stuff, that is, to put it mildly.
Also, check what the FAD (free air delivery) of your compressors is. Trouble with most HVLP guns is that they need a lot of air so chances are that you can\'t really run a normal-size gun off your compressors anyway.
i recently bought a shelf life respirator, good for gasses and all that cack.
And FAD is - 7.1 cfm displacment
I bought the haynes car bodywork manual recently which is packed full of good info. I\'m a painting noob too, and I\'ve found it very helpful.
I like your idea about joining to two compressors together btw - sounds like the kind of thing I\'d do.
Well, normally you use something like that respirator with an external air feed but I guess with the appropriate filter it\'d do it.
Any idea what pressure the 7.1cfm are? From memory I think you may struggle with a full-size gun at that FAD; I\'d check the technical data for any gun you\'re looking at before buying because it\'d be a waste of dosh to buy one that your compressor can\'t feed properly.
Well going by a conversion page i have just found - 7.1 cubic feet per minute x 28.3286 = 201.13306 liters per minute for flow
that is the right value for cfm isnt it? :p
and here is the link to that conversion page as well
linky (http://www.rockymountainmoggers.com/convert.html)
CFM and PSI are quite different
CFM is the key value you need to look at, spray guns - especially HVLP guns need LOTS of free air - or CFM (cubic feet per minute)
My Devilbiss HVLP gun uses 450 l/min (15.9 cfm) @ 29psi - so you need a compressor capable of providing that pressure. Ideally you also need a bodyshop grade regulator & oil/water trap.
You can still do a good job without the fancy bits and pieces with some crafty methods of running the hoses.
I had a 3.5hp clarke compressor which supposedly provided 13.5CFM with a 150l tank - and it sucked
Problem is without 3 phase electics you won\'t get much above 3.5hp
I think the key is to take your time and plan it well. :)
hum so 7.1 is pretty gash then : (
im at a loss now =/ i dont know what to do
Spray cans? ;)
joker! :p :spank
Hang on a mo, you have to buy a gun that is ballanced to your Compressor.
If you have a Good Comp with a Big tank then the best guns are Devilbiss GTI\'s (i use a 1.3/110 set up for top coat) or Sata 2000\'s or 3000\'s are good too (i\'ve just upgraded to a 3000 with a 1.3 set up) but that said there is a little more to selecting the correct gun. That said i have used GTI\'s at home but tbh the post ITW take over guns are C**p and your best buying a second hand Pre Take over gun with a 1.4 set up (there easy to spot as they don\'t have ITW on the body)
I used to do a odd jobs at home and found the top end guns to be a bit draining on the Comp (you would get half way round and the air presure would drop) so after a bit of going old school i got a Anest Iwata w-300 which was a better all round gun for home use (there allot cheaper too) i found mine on e-bay and i think i paid about £50 for it with a 1.3 set up.
The thing i would be looking at before i made the gun choice is the size of Comp (tank size is very important, i\'ve linked two or three tanks up before now to keep the pressure constant) the CFM is important a good test is get a DA sander (orbital) and leave it running on the floor for ten minutes if the tank pressure drops below 2 bar you\'ll struggle painting anything large.
Being a Painter myself i would say try not to get confused with Pro equipment, my Compressor at work will run an Air tool on every air line (20 of them) and two air fed masks and will still have enough go to paint a car without any pressure drop, thats why allot of the best guns are made without compromise not with DIY in mind so you may be better to steer away.
What are you thinking of using? 2k base and clear,3 stage pearl,solid etc? and what make? its also important.
Thanks grizzly so an Anest Iwata W-300 1.3 setup is what you recomend for a daiseyed 75ltr total compressor size with a 7.1 cfm? :)
Hopefully this will be enough!
I know this is a mission and i now fully appreciate what crap you guys at body shops have to go through ( with the exception of the f***er who shagged my motor, he can just fall off a cliff)
again, thanks to all for your imput
Lol. Sorry chap, couldn\'t resist! I\'ve got a huge clarke compressor that\'s rated at 9 cfm, and that\'s just enough to drive some of the lower end guns at their average air consumption. Haven\'t ever tried though.
Clarke do one with two motors and pumps into one receiver, and that kicks out 28CFM on single phase, but it\'s the best part of a grand! I take it 7CFM is the combined output for both your compressors?
thats just one of the compressors :)
Just to add, if you haven\'t done this before its important to not panic, most of the big balls ups are caused when some thing small goes wrong and the painter over applys to cover it up (which makes it ALLOT worse)
The key is to take your time getting the prep as good as poss, i\'d skip the wet on wet and base over the High build to keep the open time down to a min.
Make sure its dry between coats, Painters have Unbelievable patience, rushing is another cause of problems.
The biggest Tip is get the Tech sheets for the paint!! select the best air dry Hardner (often you will be given Force dry and that will take an age in 20-30 deg\'s) and i suppose the biggest tip that you will hear every where is paint a test panel, ok you may waist a big of paint but its better to mess up a test panel than the car if you have an Issue with some thing.
Quote from: John_HudsonThanks grizzly so an Anest Iwata W-300 1.3 setup is what you recomend for a daiseyed 75ltr total compressor size with a 7.1 cfm? :)
Hopefully this will be enough!
I know this is a mission and i now fully appreciate what crap you guys at body shops have to go through ( with the exception of the f***er who shagged my motor, he can just fall off a cliff)
again, thanks to all for your input
In the comp world bigger the better, make sure you have a good water trap too.
As i say if you think your comp may be a little low on juice beg borrow or steal another one and run them in tandom ;) even if you can lay your hands on another tank it will all help the cause.
i guess its going to be a case of spraying in parts fun fun fun!
//www.bodyshopwarehouse.co.uk i\'ve used this place before for Consumables, be sure to get you hands on a decent Cartridge mast too (i have the 3m one for home i would really recommend them).
Quote from: John_Hudsoni guess its going to be a case of spraying in parts fun fun fun!
What colour is the car? after thinking about it, if you go this route make sure you apply it all the same (i.e. same amount of Base coat, same amount of clear, same pressure etc)
Sorry didn\'t mean to worry anyone... that\'s what i meant about planning and doing things with a bit of thought to overcome the issues...
:) You\'ll be fine if you take time and care - as with most things...
the car is cellulose blue atm.... well. whats left of it is, it will be black and im going lacquerless due to being a lazy git when it comes to polishing :D
This may sound a little daft but base and clear is always easier to polish, i don\'t know exactly why but Solid colour tends to attract more dirt and stays soft for allot longer (so its harder to polish back up after denibing)
I always recomend using Base and clear over solid colours, mainly because the solid colours tend to Oxidise allot quicker.
Black is a good colour, its very easy to work and for a first timer you can see how its going on well, also if you master the polishing it always looks well once its done.
Bit of an old thread revival here but im just about to paint a couple of wings and bonnet in vintage red. I bought base coat and laquer but no primer as im going to apply the new paint direct onto the old paint. I was told by the bodyshop to apply the clear as soon as the red starts to fade. Once im happy with the base and it\'s ready for the clear, do i wet sand and compound the clear coat with G3 or is this not needed?
I would not clear it until the base had dried evenly Mat/Satin then leave for another 5 minutes or so just to make sure its dry, then clear. You can leave base too long but thats 24 hours and its better to be over dry than too wet (if you get what i mean)
make sure its well tacked between base and clear (obviously don\'t tack the clear between coats as it will be easily marked)
When you are done and its dry (leave at least 24 hours) i would recommend de-nibbing the bits of dirt out with 1200\'s locally (one by one, but use a rubber block so you don\'t get flat spots) then if you have an Orbital sander carefully DA the wing (staying away from edges) with 1500 or 2000 abralon pad wet, then use G3 and an electric buffer to polish the wing back up.