Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Topic started by: tezz12345 on September 23, 2007, 10:06:39 AM

Title: optimax
Post by: tezz12345 on September 23, 2007, 10:06:39 AM
i always run my car on optimax does everyone else???
Title: optimax
Post by: Alex T on September 23, 2007, 10:09:52 AM
always!
All of my cars love the stuff!
Title: optimax
Post by: Carl on September 23, 2007, 10:52:36 AM
There is no such fuel now,
Shell sell V power.
It has an octane rating of 99 over old Optimax\'s 98.
It is the fuel you should run.
Regards
Carl
Title: optimax
Post by: Jono FD3 on September 23, 2007, 10:57:41 AM
When I can get it I fill her right up!!! nearest one to me is 25 mile away (to get there)!!!!
Title: optimax
Post by: David Nock (RIP) on September 23, 2007, 11:32:32 AM
Old FB seems happiest on V Power or BP Ultimate or Total Excellium. All high RON petrol.
Title: optimax
Post by: nick english on September 23, 2007, 12:11:54 PM
some tescos outlets also do a 99ron which i use if i cant get to shell 15 miles away
Title: optimax
Post by: robedwards99 on September 23, 2007, 01:04:23 PM
Tesco\'s 99 for me.

Always runon it, never had a problem *touch wood* :)
Title: optimax
Post by: Kash_ on September 23, 2007, 01:39:43 PM
Always Shell V-Power for me.... if an emergency then BP or Tesco 99 ron
Title: optimax
Post by: Prof on September 23, 2007, 02:25:37 PM
BP\'s is not 99 RON if I recall it, it\'s either 97 or 98 and they do some more expensive 102 RON.
 
I use either V Power or Tesco\'s 99 and both seem at home in the engine.
Title: optimax
Post by: Ed_RX7 on September 23, 2007, 02:56:23 PM
tesco 99 for me...5 mins away
Title: optimax
Post by: elford_tim on September 23, 2007, 05:50:43 PM
I\'ve got a Tesco\'s that sells the 99 RON fuel a couple of minutes away so I either use that or if I can\'t find it, use V-Power. On the continent, I tend to use V-Power if I can find a Shell garage or 98 octane unleaded, which is available pretty much anywhere.
Title: optimax
Post by: buckman67 on September 23, 2007, 09:39:55 PM
V Power for me.

What\'s the going rate for your V power ??. Was £1.06 in Thame Oxfordshire  until recently but has since dropped to £1.01...that\'s another few yards free motoring:cheers
Never used Tesco \'s, but a few good recommendations hear so may give it a try . Is the high octane rating not due to the Bio-ethanol content ??




Bob
Title: Fuel
Post by: captainlovepony on September 23, 2007, 10:02:14 PM
I run my rx7 on 97ron mostly and never have a problem and its cheep only 97.5 i do sometimes use v-power but rarely.Doesnt make any difference to be honest.As long as its over 95ron.What you must remember is these engines arent new,we dont have RX8\'s so lower grade fuel will be fine,High grade fuel has not been here that long.
Title: optimax
Post by: David Nock (RIP) on September 24, 2007, 10:44:15 AM
Quote from: captainloveponyI run my rx7 on 97ron mostly and never have a problem and its cheep only 97.5 i do sometimes use v-power but rarely.Doesnt make any difference to be honest.As long as its over 95ron.What you must remember is these engines arent new,we dont have RX8\'s so lower grade fuel will be fine,High grade fuel has not been here that long.
Reason I run V Power is because I used to run a Y Reg Petrol Merc which had a dashboard fuel consumption display, (averaging over a run and reseting after a few hours standing). Now I agree the display might have been inaccurate, but here\'s the point: the V Power cost 5% more - but over a similar run, (after running through 3 or 4 tanks of fuel), I got 10% more mpg. Highest I ever got from that 2 litre C Class was 45 mpg on Optimax!
 
My daughter is also running V Power for a different but equally important reason. She\'s got an older Mitshubishi Carisma (Don\'t tell me!!!!) which has GDI, Mitsubishi\'s gasoline direct injection system, which tends to carbon up on short runs without good detergents in the fuel.
So I think there\'s 2 good reasons for V Power, even in older cars.
Title: optimax
Post by: nikp on September 24, 2007, 11:33:00 AM
I run mine on sainsbury\'s super! :D Except on special occasions where it gets V-power
Title: optimax
Post by: iaint on September 24, 2007, 12:06:15 PM
Quote from: captainloveponyI run my rx7 on 97ron mostly and never have a problem and its cheep only 97.5 i do sometimes use v-power but rarely.Doesnt make any difference to be honest.As long as its over 95ron.What you must remember is these engines arent new,we dont have RX8\'s so lower grade fuel will be fine,High grade fuel has not been here that long.

Most of us 3rd gen owners have cars that were designed to run on Japanese high octane fuel - not the lowly UK fuel.  So while high ron is newish over here it\'s old skool in the land fo the rising sun.

One big difference between cheap supermarket fuals and more expensive fuels (so we\'re told) is the additived they put in to them - detergents etc that can help manage carbon deposits etc.

Allegedly.  Onthe other hand it could all be just marketing...
Title: optimax
Post by: Prof on September 24, 2007, 12:31:49 PM
I also read somewhere that if you leave a tank of the higher octane stuff sitting around for a week or two - the octane rating will reduce as the volatile additives do what comes naturally and evaporate.  I presume this is worse in the summer :)
 
I use 99 RON because my ECU is chipped and came from Japan - where 100 RON is standard.  I certainly do notice if I put lower than 97 octane in it
Title: optimax
Post by: trotter on September 24, 2007, 02:41:30 PM
Always V-Power for me, seems to make her more responsive and faster than Ultimate IMO
Title: optimax
Post by: FLAT4MATT on September 24, 2007, 04:18:41 PM
End of the day it depends on the car, you could always have it mapped to run on 95RON... ;)

Mine is however mapped to run on 99RON (V-Power on the day) and it generally gets Tesco 99 which so far as I can tell makes no difference (and why should it?).

The most important thing is to run it on the CORRECT fuel, so if its a JAP import running a JAP MAP then it\'s really got to be as near to 100RON as you can get.

As far as different fuel with the same RON rating (Shell99 vs Tesco99) I can\'t tell a difference, I don\'t use BP Ultimate as it\'s only 97/98RON and always seems to be more expensive.
Title: optimax
Post by: RobbieRX-7 on September 24, 2007, 05:05:15 PM
Quote from: FLAT4MATTEnd of the day it depends on the car, you could always have it mapped to run on 95RON... ;)

Mine is however mapped to run on 99RON (V-Power on the day) and it generally gets Tesco 99 which so far as I can tell makes no difference (and why should it?).

The most important thing is to run it on the CORRECT fuel, so if its a JAP import running a JAP MAP then it\'s really got to be as near to 100RON as you can get.

As far as different fuel with the same RON rating (Shell99 vs Tesco99) I can\'t tell a difference, I don\'t use BP Ultimate as it\'s only 97/98RON and always seems to be more expensive.


I agree with the above. I wish i had mine mapped with 95ron now. Would save me a few quid a year instead of using Vpower.
Title: optimax
Post by: moakesr on September 24, 2007, 05:40:00 PM
V-Power plus octane booster unless I can\'t find V-Power when it gets 95 RON unleaded and two bottles of octane booster.

Exhaust definitely smells different to my daily car, thats for sure :mmmm
Title: optimax
Post by: Hayward North on September 24, 2007, 07:49:35 PM
Do any of you monitor your afr\'s or knock when changing between diferent petrol grades, also are the ron rating ron/mon ?

I run on v-power keeps afr\'s and knock low.
Never run on anything else.
Title: optimax
Post by: FLAT4MATT on September 24, 2007, 08:21:56 PM
Steve - I\'ve never seen any noticeable difference in knock between the two fuels I use (Tesco / V-Power) but they\'re both rated at 99ron (RON should be [Road Octane Number] not RON [Research Octane Number] or MON [Motor Octane Number] but I\'m not sure whether both Tesco and Shell use Road or Research values...)

As far as additives go I know that V-Power has a lot of detergants and Tesco is 5% bio-ethanol but that\'s where my knowledge runs out I\'m afraid :)
Title: optimax
Post by: Hayward North on September 24, 2007, 08:45:35 PM
Quote from: FLAT4MATTSteve - I\'ve never seen any noticeable difference in knock between the two fuels I use (Tesco / V-Power) but they\'re both rated at 99ron (RON should be [Road Octane Number] not RON [Research Octane Number] or MON [Motor Octane Number] but I\'m not sure whether both Tesco and Shell use Road or Research values...)

As far as additives go I know that V-Power has a lot of detergants and Tesco is 5% bio-ethanol but that\'s where my knowledge runs out I\'m afraid :)

Anyone know the effects of bio-ethanol ? never looked into it so aint a clue, im guessing it makes the ron rating a little higher ?

Also isnt bio-ethanol a recoverd chemical that apparently contains a lot of other chemicals in unknown quantitys ? <---may be wrong here.

I know there are people planing on testing running a rotory on boi-ethanol, i dont yet understand boi-ethernol so ignore my ignorance if im way off here.


Isnt a True Octain rating dun with a calculation on RON vs MON ?

Loads more questions but am gonna restrain myself as i get carried away haha
Title: optimax
Post by: Hayward North on September 24, 2007, 08:49:36 PM
The principle fuel used as a petrol substitute for road transport vehicles is bioethanol. Bioethanol fuel is mainly produced by the sugar fermentation process, although it can also be manufactured by the chemical process of reacting ethylene with steam.

The main sources of sugar required to produce ethanol come from fuel or energy crops. These crops are grown specifically for energy use and include corn, maize and wheat crops, waste straw, willow and popular trees, sawdust, reed canary grass, cord grasses, jerusalem artichoke, myscanthus and sorghum plants. There is also ongoing research and development into the use of municipal solid wastes to produce ethanol fuel.

I googeld it ...........
Title: optimax
Post by: FLAT4MATT on September 24, 2007, 09:00:34 PM
Could the bio-ethanol thing be so they can say it\'s got something a bit \'greener\' in it? No idea to be honest. I can\'t see it being a performance thing...

Yes RON [Road Octane Number] is calculated from both [Research Octane Number] and MON [Motor Octane Number] and is usually the value they use in petrol stations as far as I know.
Title: optimax
Post by: FLAT4MATT on September 24, 2007, 09:04:16 PM
Quote from: steve garbuttThe principle fuel used as a petrol substitute for road transport vehicles is bioethanol. Bioethanol fuel is mainly produced by the sugar fermentation process, although it can also be manufactured by the chemical process of reacting ethylene with steam.

The main sources of sugar required to produce ethanol come from fuel or energy crops. These crops are grown specifically for energy use and include corn, maize and wheat crops, waste straw, willow and popular trees, sawdust, reed canary grass, cord grasses, jerusalem artichoke, myscanthus and sorghum plants. There is also ongoing research and development into the use of municipal solid wastes to produce ethanol fuel.

I googeld it ...........

Basically they use plant oil instead of crude oil, plants suck up carbon dioxide during the process too which is a bonus. The idea is however flawed as by the time you\'ve harvested and processed the oil then transported it the carbon footprint is not much better. :Hammer

Going off topic a bit now though lol
Title: optimax
Post by: kev-yorks on September 24, 2007, 09:05:25 PM
Steve all the fuel in our area comes from the same source whatever they tell you be it shell, bp, tesco\'s, morrisons etc. Take a ride over to simons storage which is on the docks at Immingham and watch all the tankers running out of there its refined at the Conaco plant and piped into the storage tanks at Simons. All they do with the higher octane fuels is put extra additives in particular storage tanks that they draw the higher octane fuels from. We use a couple of tanker loads of DERV a month supplied by a independent supplier who sub contracts to the big suppliers whoever he\'s delivering for its all drawn from the same tanks.
Kevin
Title: optimax
Post by: Hayward North on September 24, 2007, 09:19:57 PM
Shame we dont know what they add or we could premix our own fuel as well as oil :D

So any idea what they add to increase the octain rating ? ethernol ?
Title: optimax
Post by: kev-yorks on September 24, 2007, 09:23:23 PM
Its supply is controlled but i\'m working on it. As one of our drivers used to deliver it there.
Kevin
Title: optimax
Post by: FLAT4MATT on September 24, 2007, 09:28:31 PM
Oh right so the octane is boosted with additives? Didn\'t know that, I assumed it was a different grade from the refinery - DOH!

That\'s interesting so they all use the same base?
Title: optimax
Post by: kev-yorks on September 24, 2007, 09:39:36 PM
I\'d put money on the fact all your fuel comes from the Stanlow refinery Matt. Even though its a shell refinery if you watched at the gate i bet theres bp and other motors going in there.
Kevin
Title: optimax
Post by: Hayward North on September 24, 2007, 09:57:24 PM
Im wondering if these fuel octain boosters you can buy from the chav shows are on the same track.
Am just learning the ideal octain fule + water/meth mix

If im not mistaken 100ron with when injecting the maximum amount of 50/50 water/meth sems to be the golden point.

Feel free to correct me as im on a learning curve again :)
Title: optimax
Post by: TonyC on September 24, 2007, 10:10:06 PM
Millers Octane booster does work - speaking from several years experience.
Title: optimax
Post by: Timmy on September 24, 2007, 10:34:33 PM
I used tesco\'s 99 in my Glanza a couple of time and it was causing all kinds of problems the car splutered and timing started retarding. Ran through a couple of tanks of v-power and the performance came back. Octane boosters do work saw some research into it once on the net but for the cost your better off buying v-power to start with.
Title: optimax
Post by: FLAT4MATT on September 24, 2007, 11:45:05 PM
Anyone got any decent reading material on the net?

A 2 min google returned these but I\'d like to know a little more :)

http://www.greenergy.com/tesco_99_octane/index.html

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=uk-en&FC2=/uk-en/tailored/shell_for_motorists/fuels/vpower_p/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/uk-en/tailored/shell_for_motorists/fuels/vpower_p/vpower_p_about_ga_1602.html

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=57&t=302977
Title: optimax
Post by: FLAT4MATT on September 24, 2007, 11:51:32 PM
So they both have cleaning properties and both (obviously) contain octane boosters (tesco just happens to use a greener one).

Both achieve the same octane rating (99) and therefore should both be the same surely?

I have never noticed any diference between the two, certainly I can\'t see how a slightly different choice of which detergents / octane booster is used would affect the burn of a fuel rated at the same octane.

Explanation of what octane ratings ACTUALLY mean...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

My undestanding is that two fuels of the same octane rating should create the same levels of knock and the same burn if all other things remain constant. As for rolling road days there are too many variables. And as for Timmy\'s car spluttering experience... I can only guess at contaminated fuel?

So (for now) since I don\'t see how two fuels of seemingly VERY simlar blends and THE SAME octane rating could make any noticable difference I\'ll continue to use either or :)

Has anybody mentioned the word placebo yet?
Title: optimax
Post by: kev-yorks on September 25, 2007, 05:42:32 AM
Octane ratings drop from the moment the fuel is blended the key is to get fresh fuel into your tank. As V power tends to sell better than the other premium fuels then it is more likely to have a higher octane to the end user than say Tesco\'s 99 that may of been in the filling stations tanks a extra week or so.
Kevin
Title: optimax
Post by: David Nock (RIP) on September 25, 2007, 11:51:01 AM
Quote from: kev-yorksOctane ratings drop from the moment the fuel is blended the key is to get fresh fuel into your tank. As V power tends to sell better than the other premium fuels then it is more likely to have a higher octane to the end user than say Tesco\'s 99 that may of been in the filling stations tanks a extra week or so.
Kevin
Sooo.... if, like me, you don\'t do many miles, does RON 95 fuel also degrade if left in the tank awhile? And is that why V Power at 99 RON seems better for running over a month or so, while the same fuel\'s in my tank? In other words, does 95 RON degrade down to very poor octane levels?
Title: optimax
Post by: Prof on September 25, 2007, 12:41:01 PM
The fuel at out local tesco\'s ships out pretty quick - seems to be a lot of 99 ron users, which means it\'s always pretty fresh.  Same probably goes for the local Shell garages - so I\'ve never had a bad batch of fuel locally.
 
AFR readings for a virtually emptied tank refill were the same as far as I could discern - so both VPower and Tesco produced the same results.
 
I also prefer to fill up early morning or at night, as I\'m convinced you get slightly more in your tank for the money :) , but that could be just wishful thinking on my part.
Title: optimax
Post by: FLAT4MATT on September 25, 2007, 12:49:04 PM
Quote from: ProfI also prefer to fill up early morning or at night, as I\'m convinced you get slightly more in your tank for the money :) , but that could be just wishful thinking on my part.

Every little helps... Forgive the Tesco Pun ;)
Title: optimax
Post by: trotter on September 25, 2007, 03:27:20 PM
Quote from: FLAT4MATTEvery little helps... Forgive the Tesco Pun ;)

don\'t let the door hit you on the @rse on the way out mate :mmmm

yeah, really funny thing about petrol and garages etc, is that many peeps think that each garage chain processes their own oil (yeah, that\'ll be the big Morrisons refinery!) when in reality its all the same oil feedstock initially and is just sold to whomever wants it. The INEOS refinery at Grangemouth supplies pretty much all the garages in Scotland either directly or indirectly.
Title: optimax
Post by: thetera on September 25, 2007, 06:57:05 PM
Quote from: steve garbuttShame we dont know what they add or we could premix our own fuel as well as oil :D
 
So any idea what they add to increase the octain rating ? ethernol ?

Dunno what they add, but you could try putting in toluene - its what they used in the 80s to run 60+psi of boost on the F1 cars :Giggle
Title: optimax
Post by: Timmy on September 25, 2007, 07:07:03 PM
I think petrol from the pump has to be minmum of what they state so atleast 99ron. Rating fuel in ron is not a very good way of showing which gets less knock. If i remember correctly there\'s another measurment but can\'t remember what it is called.
Title: optimax
Post by: FLAT4MATT on September 25, 2007, 08:52:42 PM
Timmy read the link I posted to wikipedia it explains all about octane ...
Title: optimax
Post by: Timmy on September 25, 2007, 09:02:54 PM
sounds like MON is what what i\'m thinking of. Maybe v-power has a higher MON rating than tesco\'s 99ron. I\'m sure shell use there is a reason for shell using different additives.
 
Anyway if anyone wants to try it.
 
How to make your own octane booster (this is the basic formula of one of the popular octane booster products). To make eight 16 ounce bottles (128 oz = 1 gal):
100 oz of toulene for octane boost
25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)
This product is advertised as "octane booster with cleaning agent *and* lubricating agent!". Diesel fuel or kerosene can be substituted for mineral spirits and light turbine oil can be substituted for transmission fluid. Color can be added with petroleum dyes