Just got a ****ing fail on the ****ing emissions on Grants RX, ****ing mot *******s,and thats with a reasonable mot man. The results are a bit bad so any suggestions would be appreciated.Two seperate tests, one sat with the car idling for 20minutes(not good idea), one after illegal blast up \'t road and no difference. CO levels at 7.33-7.44%, CO2 levels 8.12%, HC\'s 2240ppm(double the legal limit),Lambda .884, O2 4.11%. Any suggestions how I can get them somewhere near? Does turning the injection duty down do owt to emissions, temporarily I mean. The car in question has non sec.turbots, induction kit,Apexi ecu&commander, non cat exhaust etc(its being tested as a non cat car). Muchos appreciation for any help, Bob:mad:
the non cat limit is 3.5 co u need to get a high flow cat or standard cat and also to turn down the settings on the apexi
no rx7 will go thru the mot without some form of cat and tweaking of the ecu
whoever tuned the car has not spent any time on the idle and cruise section of the map
there is no reason for co to be this high with tuning u shd run approx 4-5% max and add a cat
i have just added a high flow metallic cat from smb and will get an update on reading when my car is full mapped
Thanks for the reply. As to the ecu settings, its basically as supplied, I am aware that the apexi ecu is not a \'fit and forget\' unit, unfortunately I am rather new to rotarys and, though mechanical stuff I have no problem with, the ecu I cannot **** about with until I have someone who has experience with setting them up. Since the various bits were fitted the car was not particularly impressive, which is why I did the non sec. turbo conversion. The difference in the car was-and is- unbelieveable and now performs better than I ever expected,even just running .85psi.The problem with emissions has only just arisen because of the mot. However, the CO&HC levels are pretty bad even for a two stroke. Until I can get the parameters for the commander then I\'ll have to try the original ecu and see what happens.
Unfortunately Grants RX is the only one in this area(Huddersfield-the largest town in europe supposedly) so we don\'t really have anyone to actually advise locally so its a case of trying to sort things out myself. Sometimes that just aint possible!! Any relevant figures for the ecu would be most helpful, thanks ,Bob.
to be honest i would stick a high flow met cat on there and take it from there or u will allways have trouble with the levels..smb do a nice one and the contasct there is grant
One supposed pass method is to raise rpm to 7k, remove foot from throttle and hope that the readings drop to a safe point at some point as the engine slows down... needs a very friendly MOT man though.
or get a VERY friendly one and use a clio round the courner ;)
speak to a guy on here called Sicknote he should be able to help u out, he owns a MOT Testing station
To put the record straight...sicknote knows how to tune the emissoions using the ECU in order to get it through. He doesn\'t do anything illegal !
lmao!!!! :D
Quote from: iaintOne supposed pass method is to raise rpm to 7k, remove foot from throttle and hope that the readings drop to a safe point at some point as the engine slows down... needs a very friendly MOT man though.
Is this to burn out the sensor and force it to give the desired reading :D
Shaun
i got de cat and mine was the same make sure ur air pump is working and ur be fine
just turn down the fuel on the apexi to get it through then wind it back up once tested.
Kevin
Is sicknote out there? If you could give me some advice on the required settings for the ecu it would be greatly appreciated. I\'m thinking of buying a 2nd hand gas analyser, would it be a good idea?
Air pump has to be working,and the test done below 2650 rpm.No problem with emissions then.
Quote from: kev-yorksjust turn down the fuel on the apexi to get it through then wind it back up once tested.
Kevin
Thats what i did for mine.
Just goto settings on the hand held and turn down the pim settings for the desired rpm .
ER,what air pump? That went in the bin when I put the tuning bits on! I\'m going to buy an analyser, then I can at least try setting the car at home, even if it runs like a bag of **** to get it through. The car wouldn\'t pass last year even with the cat,air pump etc on it but it was near enough, now its a ****ing mile off and the mot man won\'t entertain it(*******).
Quote from: Red and SingleTo put the record straight...sicknote knows how to tune the emissoions using the ECU in order to get it through. He doesn\'t do anything illegal !
lol i wasant suggesting he did!
:bandit I like the clio idea myself...
Use 10litres of fuel, and 1 litre of ethanol and you should be fine! Always turns CO and HC values to zero. Be sure to fill it up with a full tank of gas just after though.
Try turning the air con on and getting them to watch the reading on their emissions machine, it should drop momentarily when its turned on, so click print. Thats how mine got through last year.
Quote from: captainbizzaro:bandit I like the clio idea myself...
hey it works - thats how the skyline passes ;)
I always manage to get them through (I am an MOT tester) if its got a power FC its pretty easy to get it to sit under 3.5% and 1200hc for just long enough to get the result.
Thanks for the advice, where do I go in the menu on the pfc to reduce the CO&HC\'s? I \'m hopingt to get a gas analyser within the next couple of days,it will be of use for the other cars as well,thanks, Bob.
Nice suggestion on the ethanol. Anybody know why they won\'t run on alcohol? I\'ve run sprinters on meth.(not crystal meth)!! Rule of thumb is jet sizes on carbertooters is x2.5, wouldn\'t the ecu pick up the difference in fuel? Higher boost should be available with meth.(14-15:1static comp.ratios in normally aspirated engines) and they run cooler.-They do tend to rust a bit if you\'re not careful though! +20% power increase the norm. Any comments anyone?
what year did cat\'s become a legallity? i\'l have to double check but i think mines a 1995 M plate.. and i wanted to de-cat :P
Quote from: JohnPwhat year did cat\'s become a legallity? i\'l have to double check but i think mines a 1995 M plate.. and i wanted to de-cat :P
I need to spend a little longer reading the MOT book, however the thirteenth edition has some interesting changes in it. According to the book unless your FD has FD13B2 in the vin plate (UK cars) it doesnt need a cat test at all. Now this is VERY open to interpretation. Some people say august 95 but from what I am reading in the latest MOT emissions it seems as if ALL import FD\'s are MOT cat test exempt, although as I say I will need to do a little more reading.
pretty sure it was post \'93 for cats becoming necessary
Sorry but you have to have a cat on a \'95 car. Anything made after august 92 ,thats made not registered,92-93 cars are a \'grey area\' and it depends on if your mot man is a **** or not.
orig if car was a 95 import u only needed the 3.5 co test as per the vosa flow chart
all uk cars after 92 require cat test
all imports up to 95 require only 3.5 co test
the confussion is not that u need a cat for any car its the emmisssions u need to comply with and the cat is required to reach those emmissions
its a bit confusing but it is not a legal requirment to have a cat just that u need one to reach the correct levels
so the majority of import rx7 up to 1995 only need a 3.5 co test
imports after 1995 require full test
and uk cars after 1992 require full test
Do you guys need glasses or can you not fduking read?
I AM AN MOT TESTER. READ MY ABOVE POST.
There is no grey area its ALL in \'in Service Exhaust Emission Standards for Road Vehicles\' thirteenth edition. I just need to finish reading the appropriate segments thats all. NO JDM FD RX7\'s up until august 95 need an MOT - I CAN GUARANTEE THAT. Its the 95 on cars I am interested in.
agree with brambles point - all i have ever heard is with imports 95 onwards is the issue (95 being slightly grey as may be maybe not type thing)...
Ok from 01/08/1995 all FD\'s will need a full cat test. Until then ALL JDM imported FD\'s are exempt.
I put it in bold for all the blind gits :D
i thought that was what i had said
also my v5 only states first used 1995 it doesnt state when in 1995 as i think japan uses different syst to uk
Quote from: rx7veilsidei thought that was what i had said
also my v5 only states first used 1995 it doesnt state when in 1995 as i think japan uses different syst to uk
Indeed after I had said it already. :Tongue1
Quote from: BrambleDo you guys need glasses or can you not fduking read?
I AM AN MOT TESTER. READ MY ABOVE POST.
There is no grey area its ALL in \'in Service Exhaust Emission Standards for Road Vehicles\' thirteenth edition. I just need to finish reading the appropriate segments thats all. NO JDM FD RX7\'s up until august 95 need an MOT - I CAN GUARANTEE THAT. Its the 95 on cars I am interested in.
Fduk me! So my 1993 JDM doesn\'t need an MoT? Don\'t need to worry about fixing my pilow balls then :rolleyes:
93 is when they started bringing in the cat test, but I think its got to be present on the car if it is 95 on!! You could always bang out the inturnals of the cat... then as far as Mr MOT man is conserned it\'s there on the car!!
Jono
Hi all I was wondering if someone can help me please,
My Sep 92 regestered FD failed an MOT today on emmision I have
FMIC, decat, hks super dragger, apexi and pfc, no air pump, just changed the oil, plugs, leads, and took it for a blast. (not been mapped yet)
6.93 co failed
1442 h failed
lambada 0.860 failed
I talked to the MOT guy who said he had to check it on the full emmisions test.
I treid to reason with the guy stating imports before 95 only require the 3.5 co test at idle and not fast idle.
He then got out his VOSA book and showed me the page which states any car regestered after aug 92 requires a full test.
I then added yes UK regestered cars need this but I am sure imports do not, can you re check please
He then said he would put it in the computer and what it shows on screen he will have to check against that, he disapeared and i did not see him again till the test was done.
He says if I can get prove he does not need to check the fast idle he will not, anyone know what page in the vosa book its staes imports only need3.5 co so I can point him in the right direction
He would not even let me tweak the PFC to try and get me readings down, but he will next time he says as long as it only requires the idle test of 3.5 co.
Any one help me please
As I have said before,
Use 10litres of gasoline, and about 1-2 litres of ethanol, or as we use in Sweden
isopropanol(don\'t know if it\'s called that internationally) This has given me 0 on Co,and HC, lambda value will not be changed much, but might be enough for you.
Trust me, this works, people MOT 6-700hp supras,rotaries,skylines and all sorts of tuned cars with this. Without any problems.
So how to get hold of that today then for a retest tomorrow?
Quote from: EddieHi all I was wondering if someone can help me please,
My Sep 92 regestered FD failed an MOT today on emmision I have
FMIC, decat, hks super dragger, apexi and pfc, no air pump, just changed the oil, plugs, leads, and took it for a blast. (not been mapped yet)
6.93 co failed
1442 h failed
lambada 0.860 failed
I talked to the MOT guy who said he had to check it on the full emmisions test.
I treid to reason with the guy stating imports before 95 only require the 3.5 co test at idle and not fast idle.
He then got out his VOSA book and showed me the page which states any car regestered after aug 92 requires a full test.
I then added yes UK regestered cars need this but I am sure imports do not, can you re check please
He then said he would put it in the computer and what it shows on screen he will have to check against that, he disapeared and i did not see him again till the test was done.
He says if I can get prove he does not need to check the fast idle he will not, anyone know what page in the vosa book its staes imports only need3.5 co so I can point him in the right direction
He would not even let me tweak the PFC to try and get me readings down, but he will next time he says as long as it only requires the idle test of 3.5 co.
Any one help me please
That MOT tester is wrong. If its a 92 import, it doesn not need a full cat test, he is not reading his book correctly. Get him to ring me and ill set him straight as to MOTing early FD\'s. You can get my phone number on my website //www.stertegarage.com im happy to help people out with this problem as it REALLY annoys me that so many MOT testers cannot understand this information.
Quote from: BrambleThat MOT tester is wrong. If its a 92 import, it doesn not need a full cat test, he is not reading his book correctly. Get him to ring me and ill set him straight as to MOTing early FD\'s. You can get my phone number on my website //www.stertegarage.com im happy to help people out with this problem as it REALLY annoys me that so many MOT testers cannot understand this information.
OK, just for absolute clarity for a numpty like me, which of the following is correct?
a) A 92 import (brought into the country 2005) does not require any kind of emissions test;
orb) A 92 import as above needs to meet a 3.5 CO reading?
If it\'s the latter, it doesn\'t sound like those of us running without cats stand much chance of passing anyway! :(
ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME
uk car after 92 full mot emissions test incl cat test(must have a cat)
uk car pre 92 emmisions test idle only 3.5c0 no fast idle test
IMPORTS
up to june 1995 mot test 3.5% co no fast idle test
after june 1995 full mot test emmisions and cat have to be present
Got onto Pip after posting and Pip advise I rang the guy back up and advise he contact the ministry for clarification or I will do it:) as I believe you have performed the wrong test for my car, his reply was you failed the test anyway and would have failed the idle test, I then clarified why it should not have been a full test as my vin was not shown on the database and he should have then followed the rule for the 3.5 co test. To which he agreed (YES getting through now)
The guy still did not cooperate and said I have to show him proof if I want my car testing at idle for 3.5 co I will be contacting the VOSA after the re test, only have to tweak the pim settings to try and get below the 3.5 now as I found this (pic attached) to show as proof so the guy wont do a fast idle test again
Bramble I will be giving the guy your number tomorrow so the tester can talk to you, not sure if he will call though seems like I pay 50 quid and have to supply info for the test he should know about.
Thing is I may not even pass after tweaking the PFC settings so it may all be for nothing, if he would have just le t me play with the PFC the first time I would at least know if I would get near the 3.5 co level I need to pass.
Anyone got any other tweaks (not sure who sells ethanol so looks like that’s out for the short term).
Cheers for your help guys
I still don\'t undestand why you won\'t add a small amount of ethanol to your car.. Is it called something else in England(the thing used in most "green" or hybrid cars nowadays) It\'s soooo easy, and you don\'t have to change anything in your pfc...
Guess it\'s all up to you if you want to do it the easy or the hard way.
It\'s not that we dont want to use it. I would love to try it but i don\'t have a clue where to get the stuff from. We only have liquid petroleum gas, diesel and unleaded in our petrol stations.
I would love to get hold of ethanol as I mentioned in my post a few up, who sells the stuff ?.
Had a quick look last night but no joy.
I will keep looking.
But if anyone know then great
MOT GUY was a little more accomadating today, he let me try and alter settings whilst reading emmisions, then and I think this was the problem yesterday, his boss came over ranting like a C*** get that probe put of that you will F*** the machine up ( I thought it was designed to read exhaust emmisions:) well he did not like me saying that, the boss starts at his employee then telling him and hes got a MOT to do in a min. (well I tell you what I wont be taking it to that garage any more, had my money for mot then winges when I try and take it back to retest to get it past)
Only got my readings down to 5.00 co and 1288 ho, took it for a good blast as well before hand, but maybe not good enough.
Are well its in WGT Monday so see what he can do.
CHeers
Maybe it\'ll pass when you get it mapped? Prob running rich or the lambda sensor is faulty
Fingers crossed, get it mapped and take it back Tuesday for another try:)
Cheers
Quote from: EddieFingers crossed, get it mapped and take it back Tuesday for another try:)
Cheers
Eddie you have a PM. Ring me.........:Santa
anyone willing to travel to Uxbridge - we can help :) pm me and we\'ll see what we can do... our RX7 passed no trouble... straight thru with no cat on it and tiny little box at the back...
Mine went through ok (a little high really) yesterday on a standard PFC map (so rich) and no cat. Nice MOT tester I had...car gets mapped next month anyways :)
Ok, I have a question for you Bramble... (Sorry to resurrect this one)
It is abundantly clear the distinction between MOT testing a UK vehicle, and an imported (Japanese) vehicle.
Here is my question. I have a 94 Touring that just failed the emissions section of my MOT this morning. It is imported, however it is imported from America.
Do you know how that would classify as? Mine was tested in class "IV"
I have 3" downpipe, Hi-Flow cat and Apexi N1 Dual exhaust. I swapped out my stock ECU for the PFC some time ago...
Now, everything else on my car passed with flying colors, just CO and HC were DEFINITE no-go\'s (read about 5.70 and 1,558 the entire time). Course, my car had also been idling for about 15-20 min, though I\'m not sure if that would make much of a difference.
Thanks,
Levi
(Also, would you mind please giving a brief explaination of what the 3.5 mentioned is referring too?)
the 3.5 is 3.5% co emmissions and yours is above this it needs to be 3.5 or below also the hydro carbons will drop as well
Right, so basically fiddling with the settings on the PFC should be able to get me this?
I saw on the readout that supposidly I had an allowable CO emission of 0.20... perhaps I was just reading it wrong. The guy who did my test is really cool and was hoping to find a way to get me through on a loop hole but was unable to find one.
When did the 13th Ed. of the VOSA (manual?) come out? perhaps this station has not recieved it yet..
Thanks!
BTW~ I figure I will introduce myself (tried to in the Who\'s Who section, can\'t post there as a guest though).
My name is Levi, got my VR \'94 Touring about this time last year then moved to the U.K. in Feb with the U.S. Military. I am just now getting around to MOTing my car and all that fun stuff because it didn\'t arrive from shipping until AFTER I got deployed to Afghanistan. Just got back so just now doing it all ;-) I\'ve been on rx7club.com for a little over a year now, posted in here because I know the rest of the yanks won\'t have a friggin clue what I\'m talking about when I say MOT...
you need someone to advise how to drop the pim voltage to get emmissions to 3.5co
Quote from: FendamonkyRight, so basically fiddling with the settings on the PFC should be able to get me this?
Exactly. I dont frequent this site often, but if you PM me on FDUK.org/forum I will chat with you about it.
Quote from: BrambleExactly. I dont frequent this site often, but if you PM me on FDUK.org/forum I will chat with you about it.
Done, Thanks =)
Right, just posting this here as a source of info for other guys trying to pass their Emissions part of the MOT:
I passed mine this morning.
I have: 1994 US (Imported) FD with the following mods that would effect emissions. De-Cat Downpipe, Hi-Flow cat, Apexi N1 Dual Cat-back, and the Apexi PFC w/ Commander. Stock injectors (550/850) and stock fuel pump.
To make the car pass emissions (need 3.5 for CO% and 1200 HC since my car classes as a Japanese Import and it is pre \'95).
With the PFC (and similar set up) passing is no problem. When you are in the booth (before they hook up the sniffer) go back into the "Settings" menu, select PIM. Do not select any option but the one originally highlighted (this will flood you out and make your car stall), click next.
On the first screen (with RPM\'s on left) change values to:
1000rpm ---> 96.0
2000rpm ---> 96.0
3000rpm ---> 96.0
Leave all other RPM values alone.
Now hit next and change the value for the voltages to:
1.0v ---> 96.0
1.5v ---> 96.0
2.0v ---> 96.4
2.5v ---> 96.4
3.0v ---> 96.8
All volts about 3.0v are set to 96.8.
With this setup I dropped from 5.6% down to 3.3-3.4% without disrupting idle or smoking. Also, if doing this still doesn\'t get you below the limit, and your tester is cool see if he will let you rev it up a bit and pull the reading during the decel. I registered at 1.2% on the decel before I started fidgiting with the PFC.
As I believe was mentioned already.. make note of your current values before you change ANYTHING. Change your values back to the way they were after you finish the sniffer test so you dont screw up your engine while driving around afterwards.
Hope this helps some of you guys out!
-Levi
for any one looking for ethanol.
its ethyl alcohol , the same as you get in your bottle of single malt scotch, or more importantly, the same as in your bottle of methylated spirits. (this is ethyl alcohol mixed with methyl alcohol a colourant and oil of wintergreen to make you puke.) You may be able to get isopropanol from an automotive paint supplier.
Quote from: FendamonkyAll volts about 3.0v are set to 96.8.
Doh! I meant "All volts
above 3.0v are set to 96.8" damn typing without thinking...
Hey guys, has anyone tried the ethanol/metho trick. Would this do any damage to the engine, ie would it run red hot assuming that the higher alcohol content would burn at higher temps.
Would be interested to hear your thoughts
Cheers
Steve
I believe there was a Swedish fellow who says he has done it quite a bit. Running a bit of Ethanol will not mess up your engine. I would highly suggest NOT running full ethanol though. I can\'t remember if the idea was gone into detail here or on FDUK.org (just walked back from the pub) but a 1/10 ratio WILL NOT injure your engine what so ever. As a matter of fact, ALL pumps in the U.S. are now running 10% ethanol in their petrol simply because it will help improve your emissions.
I am using it every time I mot. About 1 litre of ethanol to 10 liters of fuel is very good, If you feel scared about running with it you can just empty the rest of the fuel afterwards and just top it up with 99ron vpower. I just do the 1/10 ratio and fill it up full after the mot, works a charm All your HC and Co values will be more or less 0.
who can I buy ethanol from?
Cheers
Don\'t the UK already use a % of ethanol in petrol already ? Or is that just E85 ?
Shaun
Can anyone tell me what the acceptable levels should be for a pass throughout?,my car is coming in at like 2.4 co level & theyre telling me the requirement is 0.30??? how the hell am i supposed to get down that far???.Are they doing something wrong? coz it sailed thru last year no probs at all??? with no changes since cept a slightly more free flowing exhaust
Ok. to clarify, when I say Ethanol, I mean e85 as one of the substances doing what I have stated. Ratio 1 litre e85 to 10 litres of fuel. Don\'t fill up the thank with more than 10 litres of 99ron or whatever you use when you apply the e85 since that will just take longer to get rid of. This will zero down your HC and CO values.
I got away quite lightly this year, Car sailed through the test, except for tires! :( the tracking was out so the front two were goosed and rears were borderline :mad: costly! but mechanicaly was great!! i was a little surpised though as she has no rear fog :rollin
counterzero unless ur car is a 92 onward uk car on 95 onward import then you only need 3.5co
imports up to 95 need only to have 3.5c0 so urs is fine unless as i stagted it is a 92 onward uk car or 95 onward import
take it to a different tester as they do not know what they are doing with regards the emmissions
Thanks i thought this was the case,fu**ing idiots,im having some agrument over this with them stating i nned paperwork to intimate the car is exempt & requires the old type test grrrrr!!
just tell them to read their book but in my experience mot testers dont like to be told their job and probably feel a bit silly now and will dig their heels in