Its a new bridgeported engine with pip\'s base map on, but its costing me a packet in fuel, like it just drinks it literately, bit of a dog to start by the key as well, starts by towing staright away? any ideas what it could be?
Save me hunting all around the car :Thumbs-up
could be the lambda or cold start? as for the starting i cant help?
wow sounds very rich, get it back to Pip straight away
lambda showing volts fine on the pfc, could be cold start but i put 20 quid in it, drove it for 20 miles and the needle is at 0
could it be that rich on standard injectors though?
im surprised it even runs. it doesnt have any leaks on the fuel lines does it ?
nope checked that, will have another look today at them, sure the aint though, just thinkin, could there be a hole or something in my tank, actually it doesnt loose anything when its standing still! seems to rush out when i take a hard bend as well! getting more confusing lol!
what turbo you running on the bridge?? also is it a full bridge or half??
if its a full bridge, 1 pound a mile doesnt sound too much.
rmaj
Quote from: rmagictasticlf??if its a full bridge, 1 pound a mile doesnt sound too much.
rmaj
:eek :eek:
spec as follows;
Big Half bridge port secondarys, extended street port primaries
3mm 2 piece RA apex seals,modified for twin Atkins springs
Atkins solid corner seals
Hurley Duplex side seals
Turbo 2 8.5CR Rotors clearanced by 10thou
Atkins E Shaft oil jet mods
New rotor housings with ported exhaust
RX8 needle bearings
Viton oil rings
Teflon water seals
Wax pellet removed
Ported lower inlet manifold
At the mo just running it in with non sequential setup, although one of my turbo oil seals broke so blocked oil line off to that one! all the luck im having lol!
Quote from: rx jamieim surprised it even runs. it doesnt have any leaks on the fuel lines does it ?
runs perfect, bit lumpy but i cant go above 3k to wear the engine in and it idles at 1700-2k rmp.
Quote from: ttpowerspec as follows;
Big Half bridge port secondarys, extended street port primaries
3mm 2 piece RA apex seals,modified for twin Atkins springs
Atkins solid corner seals
Hurley Duplex side seals
Turbo 2 8.5CR Rotors clearanced by 10thou
Atkins E Shaft oil jet mods
New rotor housings with ported exhaust
RX8 needle bearings
Viton oil rings
Teflon water seals
Wax pellet removed
Ported lower inlet manifold
At the mo just running it in with non sequential setup, although one of my turbo oil seals broke so blocked oil line off to that one! all the luck im having lol!
Carl ran something very similar to this last year except with full bridge... £1/mile sounds right on base map, it will see that you are flowing huge amounts of air and throw fuel at it!!!
just to clarify you are running a bridge port base map yes??
and are you running completely stock fuelling, i presume you are intending to upgrade it before mapping??
rmaj
yeah, pip put that map on for me, going to upgrade to 1600 secondaries and uprate my fuel pump & fpr. Its just to run the engine in, and whilst i source some decent parts, i got a while yet to run it in, just at this rate it seems to be running at quite an expensive cost, maybe pip decided to throw more fuel at it to be sure it didnt run lean, maybe thats the problem with it starting as well?
So what kind of mpg am i looking at when its running right? at first i thought it was the fuel dial broke or something, but noticed when i turn quite sharp the needle drops significantly, what sort of measuring do they use in these tanks?
i got 11 mpg when mine was running 445 bhp.
which means you were getting about 3 miles for every £1! is that right! was yours a bridgeport!
something tells me you werent aware off this!!
i can catagorically tell you with a big bridge, you will spend alot of time in petrol stations...
rmaj
lol! yeah its shocking me, and i though lambo\'s were bad on fuel lol! im ok with around 15mpg, but £1 a mile is bit ridiculous, it must be pips base map.
But can standard injectors through out that much fuel???
My small 1/2 bridge with stock ancillaries was getting me 7-10mpg in town and maybe 15mpg on the open road and that was running stock fuel pump, stock turbo, stock ecu and injectors in the FC. The stock ecu over fuels slightly in the FC, I would suspect the basemap on the PFC will do the same.
what injector duty are you reaching at 3k rpm, should only be about 26 - 30. Bridges of any kind use loads of fuel.
I think a lot of your problem is the twin turbo pack, you will have huge back pressure which will make fuel economy worse, also, you say you disconnected the oil supply to one of the turbos, that cant be good cos the impeller will still be forced to turn, you will have no oil cooling, the bearing has probably seized solid. You are better off pulling the turbos, ripping all the gubbins out and putting the housings back and running N/A while you run it in. That way your down pipe still fits, Or IIRC, you can just blank of the turbos and remove them, but still attach your down pipe to the centre section.
hmm, so seems then that its not leaking any petrol then lol! but those figures are still better then mine, its about 7mpg. must be pips base map, gonna give him a call.
its not just base map! see my post above! you will probably find that with one turbo you are creating boost at idle
thanks antnic, i\'ll have a look and let you know what the inj duty is. I\'ll take the pack off the weekend and block the turbos off, should i just put a filter on the end of the elbow pipe? didnt know that it would create alot back pressure on standard twin turbos, i\'ll have to invest in a singe now(excuse lol). So if i block off both turbos, would that reduce back pressure and increase fuel consuption?
it\'ll be my 3rd changing this turbo pack, prob the worse job on a rex, last time my gaskets failed and my neighbours werent to happy with that extra noise lol!
yeah Im with Tony on this one, didnt realise u were running stock twins on a Half bridge!! probably seized that turbo right up.
Stock twins on a hlf bridge is a no no you ar choking it right up, what single turbo u going for?
FYI on my half bridge I get 12-14mpg around town, at 60mph I get 22mpg, 90mph about 18mpg, on blat mode 9-10mpg
not too bothered about the turbo pack as im planning on gettin a single once its run in anyways. Im cool with them fuel figures, pretty much what i was hoping for lol!
Would this turbo pack then be a reason why its a dog to start?
i get 15mpg with no porting!
lol!, thats good, better then 3mpg! Could be an excuse to bridgeport!
with my heavy food i\'d need my own tanker mate.
i like the smoothness of sequental twins and the drivability of a close to stock car so not for me.
everybody has thier wants but i could only see myself doing that if i wanted to drag the car purely.
glad to see all the different breeds though.
lol yeah, think mines only goin to be a track/weekend car.
no, but cold plugs and lots of fuel would be, get a set of 7 and 9 plugs in there if you havent already and it should be ok. Are the plugs in it the ones that you put in it after it was first started when rebuilt?, if so bin em, you should always use old plugs on a new engine until its been warmed up for the 1st time then throw them and put new ones, all the gunk in the engine after rebuild clogs the plugs. if its rich, low numbered (hotter) plugs will help it start easier.
Quote from: antnicukwhat injector duty are you reaching at 3k rpm, should only be about 26 - 30. Bridges of any kind use loads of fuel.
I think a lot of your problem is the twin turbo pack, you will have huge back pressure which will make fuel economy worse, also, you say you disconnected the oil supply to one of the turbos, that cant be good cos the impeller will still be forced to turn, you will have no oil cooling, the bearing has probably seized solid. You are better off pulling the turbos, ripping all the gubbins out and putting the housings back and running N/A while you run it in. That way your down pipe still fits, Or IIRC, you can just blank of the turbos and remove them, but still attach your down pipe to the centre section.
hi mate, yeah at 3k rpm its reading 25-30 for the inj duty, at idle its 18.1!
Does this sound right for the amount of fuel its using?
As for the turbo rip, shall i put a filter on the elbow pipe or still connect it to the intercooler?
Quote from: antnicukno, but cold plugs and lots of fuel would be, get a set of 7 and 9 plugs in there if you havent already and it should be ok. Are the plugs in it the ones that you put in it after it was first started when rebuilt?, if so bin em, you should always use old plugs on a new engine until its been warmed up for the 1st time then throw them and put new ones, all the gunk in the engine after rebuild clogs the plugs. if its rich, low numbered (hotter) plugs will help it start easier.
so is that 7 in primaries and 9 in secondaries.
cheers for the help mate. :Thumbs-up
just stick an air filter anywhere you can attach it. Close to the throttle body the better
18 sounds high on idle
just use stock plugs in the stock places.
Quote from: antnicukjust stick an air filter anywhere you can attach it. Close to the throttle body the better
18 sounds high on idle
just use stock plugs in the stock places.
So are the stock plugs 7 in primaries and 9 in secondaries?
i think at the moment there either 9 or 10 in all of them?
Im going to be buyin some new plugs tomorrow.
just to note as well, theres is alot of fumes coming out of it as well, they stink the whole place out! Is that normal or is that cause of the base map, crap plugs and back pressure?
Quote from: antnicuk18 sounds high on idle
I guess the base map is mega rich then - running very large but non-bridge ports and a richish map sees mine ~8% from memory.
8%, id love to have that figure, what does yours idle at, mine is at 1600rpm. I thought it might of been my fuel but i guess i was wrong as i just ended up pushing my into my work lol! not what you want on a friday morining, but least i know now its dry in the petrol tank and that the fuel guage is working!
Quote from: ttpowerSo are the stock plugs 7 in primaries and 9 in secondaries?
i think at the moment there either 9 or 10 in all of them?
Im going to be buyin some new plugs tomorrow.
I think you mean Trailing and Leading.
7s go in the Leading, 9s in the trailing.
High fuel consumption, rough idling, high idling, fumes..... these are all the result of the bridgeport. Was no research done into this before the porting was done?
yeah i expected it, but not this bad thats all.
Thanks for the info.
Ok even £1 per mile sounds really really bad, even for a bridgeport.
B ut have you measured it properly?
-- Fill up, drive a while, fill up and take note of the mileage, and the exact amount you have put in. Judging by fuel gauge alone is VERY inaccurate.
Welcome to my world!
Mine is 1L per mile....so at current prices £1.03
Next year we are going to be running 108 Octane.....so that will be £2.60 per mile :o
OMG! but dont you run HUGE bridge ports?
matt
No...Not at all, we run some aggressive porting, but not even half bridge.
On running it in, I was achieving just less than 15mpg, but that was sticking to below 4000rpm. Once you get out into the race, you can hear the engine getting hiccups it\'s drinking it that quick! ;)
lol, hiccups! these cars have some personality lol! cheers for the help martin, goin to be swapping my exhaust for a dolphin tail one so that should hopefully reduce the noise. Just thinkin, if the fumes are so bad wouldn\'t that effect bridgeports from gettin an mot.
It should be possible to lean out the fueling on the bridge for idle.
The reason they run rich is that on idle less air get\'s into the engine due to the amount of exhaust gas that also gets in because of the amount of overlap between exhaust and inlet ports.
Regards
Carl
i dont think you would ever get a bridge port through an mot, to much over lap.
Quote from: AtomicRexNo...Not at all, we run some aggressive porting, but not even half bridge.
On running it in, I was achieving just less than 15mpg, but that was sticking to below 4000rpm. Once you get out into the race, you can hear the engine getting hiccups it\'s drinking it that quick! ;)
doesnt this make your engine illegal for class d in the combe championship. Cheating to lose still. Thats a poor effort. Look at MST!:burnout
Quote from: rotaryraver002doesnt this make your engine illegal for class d in the combe championship. Cheating to lose still. Thats a poor effort. Look at MST!:burnout
OK!! at least that wasnt random!!! who are you??
rmaj
I think it is either Matt Blackledge or his girlfriend! You can tell by the lack of education which is displayed in their posts! It was the same attention to detail that was evident in the build of my car when left with them.
I\'m sure he will come back with some appropriate comments to show his true side....I think he is bored, nothing else that interesting going on his life, and for some unknown reason he thinks this is rather funny! Which I guess it is, as it puts him in the childish light he needs to be taken in.
Still never mind...life goes on, and hopefully one day he will get bored of this and grow up! But then again.....
Please folks - Do Not Feed The Trolls!!!
Quote from: iaintPlease folks - Do Not Feed The Trolls!!!
but if you don\'t they wither and die, even trolls need feeding (otherwise we\'d have a happy, happy, love, love world and that wouldn\'t work would it???)
Quote from: sadgothbut if you don\'t they wither and die, even trolls need feeding (otherwise we\'d have a happy, happy, love, love world and that wouldn\'t work would it???)
A Pint of what that man\'s smoking please!!! :Party
Quote from: sadgothbut if you don\'t they wither and die, even trolls need feeding (otherwise we\'d have a happy, happy, love, love world and that wouldn\'t work would it???)
Believe me there is enough flesh on this troll to go without feeding for many years!
Quoterotaryraver002 doesnt this make your engine illegal for class d in the combe championship. Cheating to lose still. Thats a poor effort. Look at MST!
I think someone who comes on these forums under the guise of a \'guest\' specifically to make cheap swipes or personal attack, against a Full member wth their first post, for reasons possibly known to themselves, Should not be accepted, i am amazed the club allows this, of course there will always be those who contribute nothing and use the free facility of these forums to even complain about the way the club is run, and divert full members threads, but a first post! :xconfused come on!! take the facility or the guest, away!
Can we get back on track to ttpower problems please,
Bob
Quote from: sadgothbut if you don\'t they wither and die, even trolls need feeding (otherwise we\'d have a happy, happy, love, love world and that wouldn\'t work would it???)
Hi mate, whats the fumes on your like??, did you run it lean for an mot?
Quote from: ro284Can we get back on track to ttpower problems please,
Bob
Hi Bob, not muchof a problem just, ripping a hole in my pocket at the moment lol!, spending like £300 a week in fuel. Going to bring back to pip to map it properly next week, think he\'s made it run way to rich, which really is defeating the object in running in!!
No expert me matey, but from what i gather rotaries don\'t like too rich, (or too weak!) how many miles have you got to go before the engine is run in,?
QuoteGoing to bring back to pip to map it properly next week, think he\'s made it run way to rich, which really is defeating the object in running in!!
When it\'s mapped i\'m sure it will run better and cheaper! and more effeciently. Sounds as though the tickover is very fast, mine ticks about 755!
that won\'t help with economy either, but perhaps with the porting it\'s normal,
good luck with it, look forward to hearing if you are pleased with the end
result after mapping,
Cheers Bob
mine does over 12mpg on a good quick motor way run with a 1/2 bridge.
t04r with a .83 hot side is causing me a headach with egt\'s due to been too restrictive the twins must be way worse. think about it the whole point of a bridge is the overlap which gives you the power,fast spool and the sound. if you have a restrictice exhaust it will build back preasure and so contaminate the intake charge more thus making the it less efficiant.
are you ever off boost with the twins and wot tubby are you going to run on it.
matt
Hi mate, going to be using a t04 gt or t70, not decided yet, i have pretty much ran it in now, so time for the upgrade, then might run it in for a bit more before i boost it full, going to get an wideband to check everything is running well.
Well guessed. See you at the weekend! And the swipe is because you owe me money. I did tell you at the time it would be much easier just to pay me. Hows the insurance job going? However it is rather funny watching you struggle. As for anyone else on the Forum, I have nothing against you, the club or the forum itself. It\'s just Jon boy I have a problem with, so please dont see it as a swipe and the rotary fan base at all.
Raver002
Quote from: rotaryraver002Well guessed. See you at the weekend! And the swipe is because you owe me money. I did tell you at the time it would be much easier just to pay me. Hows the insurance job going? However it is rather funny watching you struggle. As for anyone else on the Forum, I have nothing against you, the club or the forum itself. It\'s just Jon boy I have a problem with, so please dont see it as a swipe and the rotary fan base at all.
Raver002
Please keep all comments againt Atomic rex off the public forum please, personal problems are not to be discussed on the open forum they are for your own time please
thanks.
Gurj :King
* Inappropriate posts will be removed once i get back from work in the morning 6am - unless another mod can do so asap thanks :Laugh
Quote from: AtomicRexI think it is either Matt Blackledge or his girlfriend! You can tell by the lack of education which is displayed in their posts! It was the same attention to detail that was evident in the build of my car when left with them.
I\'m sure he will come back with some appropriate comments to show his true side....I think he is bored, nothing else that interesting going on his life, and for some unknown reason he thinks this is rather funny! Which I guess it is, as it puts him in the childish light he needs to be taken in.
Still never mind...life goes on, and hopefully one day he will get bored of this and grow up! But then again.....
Hi Jon. It\'s Matts girlfriend here. Good luck at the weekend! You\'re obviously gonna need it. :) We\'ll be seeing you...Bye!!
Thanks for clearing out the rubbish out mods,
What exhaust system you running ttpower, any pics of the engine?
Bob
Quote from: ro284Thanks for clearing out the rubbish out mods,
What exhaust system you running ttpower, any pics of the engine?
Bob
Got a re amieya dolphin tail one now, helps the noise lot, sounds well nice s well. I\'ll post sum pics up soon as i get back from holiday next week lol, shows how addicted i am to this forum :Thumbsup!
Got a Dolphin on mine, just fitted, one of the quieter ones i think even with a decat!
Bob