Hy peeps ma cars fitted with an apexi and a greddy E01.. do i need the e01? im not clued up enough to use it or know anything about other than today whilst i was playing with it u cn turn the boost up at will lol... scary!!
Altho its looks very kewl i dont think id ever use it and thinkin id be as well selling it on to fund ma single tub route.. what cha reckon.. need pro`s n cons for keeping it :yes
cheers
On stock twins you don\'t need a boost controller,but on a single turbo you do.
Regards
Carl
kinda what i thought... im planing to go single so maybe worth keeping it then?
Corect me if im wrong but even on stock twins if you have a straight through zorst you would get nasty boost spikes and creep without a boost controler, you need it to keep the boost to 10psi.
Eg. i fitted a straight though zorst and got a boost psttern of 10-14-10, 14 was 2 much for my setup so i perchased a Apexi AVCR boost controler and corrected my boost pattern back down to 10psi i never achived a 10-8-10 pattern but kept the spike to 10psi.
basicly it sees bigger boost than is required and bleeds it off so you keep to what you require.
ahh.. well i have been decated but have the apexi there 2 so hought that stoped the boost creep?
Im running stock sequential twins with decat, and get a perfect 10-8-10 pattern with no boost spike and no boost controller. The power fc can be finely tuned to cope with spike.
I dont mean to contradict but without the boost controler part of the PFC it cannot control boost by limiting or bleeding the boost off.
A lot of cars can run 10-8-10 with no control and fully decatted with a pfc but there are a lot more than produce a spike on transition of the second turbo and that can mean a lean spot and per det so best to keep some safe guard in there till you know for sure, take it to a tuner and check with him.
The boost control part of the PFC comes as an seperate item and is not incoperated into the PFC itself, they dont come with them as standard and not many people run them as i know of.
Again im sure a standard PFC even with a tune connot control boost spiking or creep without the pfc boost controler part of the pfc, but anyone is welcome to correct me.
Quote from: steve garbuttI dont mean to contradict but without the boost controler part of the PFC it cannot control boost by limiting or bleeding the boost off.
A lot of cars can run 10-8-10 with no control and fully decatted with a pfc but there are a lot more than produce a spike on transition of the second turbo and that can mean a lean spot and per det so best to keep some safe guard in there till you know for sure, take it to a tuner and check with him.
The boost control part of the PFC comes as an seperate item and is not incoperated into the PFC itself, they dont come with them as standard and not many people run them as i know of.
Again im sure a standard PFC even with a tune connot control boost spiking or creep without the pfc boost controler part of the pfc, but anyone is welcome to correct me.
Very true and i agree but with a good map this should help/resolve this completely.
Quote from: steve garbuttI dont mean to contradict but without the boost controler part of the PFC it cannot control boost by limiting or bleeding the boost off.
A lot of cars can run 10-8-10 with no control and fully decatted with a pfc but there are a lot more than produce a spike on transition of the second turbo and that can mean a lean spot and per det so best to keep some safe guard in there till you know for sure, take it to a tuner and check with him.
The boost control part of the PFC comes as an seperate item and is not incoperated into the PFC itself, they dont come with them as standard and not many people run them as i know of.
Again im sure a standard PFC even with a tune connot control boost spiking or creep without the pfc boost controler part of the pfc, but anyone is welcome to correct me.
Very true and i agree but with a good map this should help/resolve this completely.
I do agree with you, a conservative map you would probably be ok but the only problem with boost spiking is your map probably wont be set up for this, ie you map for 10psi so your tuner corrects all your cells in your correction map to account for 10psi but when you spike you PFC canot correct for this as it duz not work the fuel correction for you, your tuner duz, so your afr\'s will be way lean and the potential for a very hot engine and pre det can become a reality.
Even with a wideband o2 sensor wired into a datalogit connected to you pfc, your PFC cannot workout the fuel that is required for the spike and creep.
In short its not that rotary engines pop due to to much boost but rather due to a lean state cause by not enugh fuel.
A big factor is how your fueling system is set up.
I guess if you get your car maped for 15psi you will then be ok when it spikes but that said you will have to make 15psi on the dino.
Or and this is a big OR, get your tuner to make a rich safe zone from 10psi upto 15psi, this would have to be worked manually insted of on the dino as you wouldnt be able to make 15psi at the rate the mapper would require but there are calculations that can be made to correct for it.
One thing to add is if you are on the stock injectors i think they almost max out at 13psi V 6k so thrashing it you would hit fuel cut and hiting that is a recipe for disaster.
This is a very simplified explanation so please take it as so.
And please feel free to correct me if im wrong.
Forgot to add.
Or you can port your wastgate :)
I cannot beleive how many times I have said this on this very forum.
With correct mapping it is perfectly possible for the power FC ecu to control the boost on the stock twins with open exhaust.
It just takes time to use the Apexi\'s controls to do so.You can\'t expect to put on an open exhaust and the Apexi still control boost without things being altered within it\'s controls.
The boost is able to be controlled by the Apexi ECU itself not a seperate thing at all.
If you go single then an aftermarket boost controller is needed.
Regards
Carl
Also what is the point of running 10psi with an open exhaust?
The reason for mods in the first place is to make more power,with the same boost pattern the power hike would be nominal.
Around 0.9 to 1 bar boost is safe on stock twins with the right map.
Regards
Carl
what about stock twins with the engine ported?
Pip seemed to have real trouble bringing my boost under control on stock twins, decat, downpipe and a street port. Put a bigger pill in, still couldn\'t do it. I ended up buying a SBC ID from ebay to bring it under control eventually.
Quote from: Oedipus Rexwhat about stock twins with the engine ported?
Pip seemed to have real trouble bringing my boost under control on stock twins, decat, downpipe and a street port. Put a bigger pill in, still couldn\'t do it. I ended up buying a SBC ID from ebay to bring it under control eventually.
When I port the engines even on stock twins my ports are much bigger than I have seen from anyone else and I have had no trouble getting boost under control with Apexi ecu on any that I have built.
Regards
Carl
Quote from: CarlAlso what is the point of running 10psi with an open exhaust?
The reason for mods in the first place is to make more power,with the same boost pattern the power hike would be nominal.
Around 0.9 to 1 bar boost is safe on stock twins with the right map.
Regards
Carl
There are a lot of people who would disagree with you, you only have to troll the RX7club.com forum to see.
Even Chuck westbrook the guru from the US advised me to get a boost controler to keep things under control with a open exhaust and the standard twins.
I take my hat off to you if you achive this on every car you deal with but for the general public who duznt have your knowledge its better to keep the boost under control imo.
The original question was aimed at weather he should take it off, your advising him to do so as he duznt need it, that COULD mean a blown engine, your happy to let him risk that ? on your head be it.
I say keep it or take it to carl to map out.
So how do you control the boost with an aftermarket boost controller?
Simply by playing with the settings until you gain boost control.They don\'t do it straight away out of the box but you have to sort them by playing with the available parameters of control.
Same applies to the Apexi ECU,it does exactly the same as any boost controller in that it controls solenoids for opening and closing of the wastegate,only difference is that it uses stock solenoids to do it.
Using an after market controller works yes,but so does, as I have said a "Properly Mapped" Apexi,which means playing with boost control settings to get control during tuning.
All I can reiterate is that as yet I have not come across any that I have not been able to get control of.
Regards
Carl
Quote from: steve garbuttThe original question was aimed at weather he should take it off, your advising him to do so as he duznt need it, that COULD mean a blown engine, your happy to let him risk that ? on your head be it.
I say keep it or take it to carl to map out.
Bit strong that Steve.
Regards
Carl
id be more than happy to take my car to Carl but its like a 7 hour drive for me :(
Quote from: interloper393id be more than happy to take my car to Carl but its like a 7 hour drive for me :(
Dont get me wrong i dont doubt that he can do what he says, i to would love to have my car maped by carl but not all us can afford his knowledge as the round trip and mapping would be exspensive.
Im probably right in thinking it couldnt be maped out with just a standard maping sesion.
So if its running fine then leave it on :Laugh
Also i would love for carl to have a look at my map with my logs and mod list to see what he thought :D
I started with a safe map from a very reputable person only with only a list of my mods (got the map via email) and i have slowly tuned my car myself from 10psi to 13psi opeing up the exhaust, induction and loads of other mods.
Quote from: CarlBit strong that Steve.
Regards
Carl
Appologies but it was a very simple question that was answerd without all the knowledge you have attached.
The answer i sore but not in as manny words was " you dont need it take it off".
Im sure you will agree with me in that he should not just take it off.
Like i say Appologies if it sounded strong but im sure you know that posts can be read in manny ways, read my posts again with a smile and a beer and you will see them as i wrote them.
Maybe if i included more smilies :)
Oh and debate is my way of gaining knowledge, i have learned something here :)
Quote from: CarlSo how do you control the boost with an aftermarket boost controller?
Simply by playing with the settings until you gain boost control.They don\'t do it straight away out of the box but you have to sort them by playing with the available parameters of control.
Same applies to the Apexi ECU,it does exactly the same as any boost controller in that it controls solenoids for opening and closing of the wastegate,only difference is that it uses stock solenoids to do it.
Using an after market controller works yes,but so does, as I have said a "Properly Mapped" Apexi,which means playing with boost control settings to get control during tuning.
All I can reiterate is that as yet I have not come across any that I have not been able to get control of.
Regards
Carl
You must admit a boost controler is very simple to understand compaired to a PFC ?
Like i say read my posts with a :)