I got in my car to come to work this morning, and it struggled to start - it did though. And I gave it a good telling off! Think I should be worried?
Depends why
was if slightly flooded?
did it smokw a lot once started?
was there a sweet smell in fumes?
Did the water buzzer come on or water level drop?
Was the battery fully charged?
So many things on what could be a one off or just a simple fix
Ok thanks...urm
I Don\'t know about flooding..
Smoke- Yes
Normal smell
No water buzzer etc
Had no battery problems before, but haven\'t had the car long!
:(
what colour was the smoke? Did it clear after a while?
If the smoke was white and it cleared after a bit then sounds like a case of slight flooding
Most likely a sparkplug "fouled" - this is what causes the flooding - when where the sparkplugs replaced?
Yeah white smoke that cleared, I wasn\'t too worried about that.
It had (Or should have had) a full service at the garage we got it from just before I bought it - one of the conditions of us buying it - so beginning of June. But I suppose that doesn\'t mean that they actually did it...
always make sure they give you the old parts !!
That way you will knoiw wether it has been changed ?
Can you let us know what sparkplugs are in there? ... yes, we need all the numbers and everything!..
To help prevent it happening again,
When turning off:
1) gently get revs to about 2 or 3 K.
2)while holding the revs turn the key off, but floor the accelerator at exactly the same time. Keep pedal down until engine stops turning.
Right I\'ll see if my fella can have a look at the Spark Plugs and let you know.
I\'ll remember that, thanks Martiny.
Martiny - out of interest what does that little trick do?
Ta,
Chris.
it would not be the first time Plugs have been left because the guys doing the service could not find them on a Rotary :( also if the plug leads are Original make sure they have not damaged them pulling them off the plugs (they often stick on and take a bit of persuasion to get off (often its easier to just rag the lead off)
Yep there are some truly bright Mechanics out there.
Out of intrest, when you put it away before the bad starting problem, was it hot when you parked it up? (been out for a run etc)
Quite often Fd\'s don\'t like being moved a few feet when there cold and left overnight, its something to do with the amount of fuel it puts in when its cold and if you turn off during this cycle it just sits in the baths until you try starting it next morning (hence the exess fuel and very rich mixture).
you did not put your foot on the gas before you tryed to start it , did that with mine when first had it and flooded it, sat there for a hour before it started
Quote from: GrizzlyOut of intrest, when you put it away before the bad starting problem, was it hot when you parked it up? (been out for a run etc)
Quite often Fd\'s don\'t like being moved a few feet when there cold and left overnight, its something to do with the amount of fuel it puts in when its cold and if you turn off during this cycle it just sits in the baths until you try starting it next morning (hence the exess fuel and very rich mixture).
Yeah I\'d just come home back home from work, so it had been running maybe 20 minutes before I parked up. I try not to start it just to move a small distance \'cause I\'d been told about that problem before.
Quote from: adibyou did not put your foot on the gas before you tryed to start it , did that with mine when first had it and flooded it, sat there for a hour before it started
No, not conciously anyway, - it started fiiine this morning anyway...maybe just a one-off ??
Quote from: d6277nMartiny - out of interest what does that little trick do?
Ta,
Chris.
Ok, so here\'s the problem. Something prevents the plugs from firing. And the problem is very often fuel, oil, or a combination of oil and fuel residue on the spark plug.
The spark plug makes a spark because a very high voltage is sent to the little node in the middle, and then it jumps to the body (earth or negative) of the plug - or actually to the little tab that\'s bent towards the node.
Its difficult to see, but the node is insulated from the body.
Now when there is too much fuel in the chamber, it can cover the insulation, and provides a much easier path for the current to flow to earth. And now the current runs from the electrode, THROUGH that fuel to discharge to earth. Now there is no spark :-(
(Sometimes it\'s carbon buildup that provides this path rather than fuel)
(are you still with me!?)
Ok, now there\'s many reason why the fuel might land up on there... running too rich (car still in warm-up mode), old plugs, or low compression engine...leaking injectors.... etc.
Now , when we hold the throttle open during shut down, we are pumping air through the chamber, and this is cleaning any residual fuel off the plugs - (the fuel will stop being injected as we switch the key off), hopefully leaving the plugs nice and dry , and give us the best chance of them firing first time the next time we start up.
Capisce? Comprende? Verstaan? Verstehen zie?
:) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Good info martiny :-)
Cheers matey. Useful to know :)
Chris.
Something thats not been mentioned yet - but when did you last drive it before it gave trouble starting? If its been left awhile they do take some turning over to get going... :wave
no see that car at rst4 i think, you will get use to things playing up one day and fine the next or is it my rex that just does this :Laugh
It was only left standing over night Brett, she\'s fine now, had no problems since. Must have just been in a strop! :Thumbs-up
:D :D they all get like that !!
Quote from: MartinyNow when there is too much fuel in the chamber, it can cover the insulation, and provides a much easier path for the current to flow to earth. And now the current runs from the electrode, THROUGH that fuel to discharge to earth. Now there is no spark :-(
(Sometimes it\'s carbon buildup that provides this path rather than fuel)
i know what you mean but i thought fuel had such a high resistance no electricity went anywhere when a plug was flooded, thats why in-tank fuel pumps don\'t explode?
Quote from: ashci know what you mean but i thought fuel had such a high resistance no electricity went anywhere when a plug was flooded, thats why in-tank fuel pumps don\'t explode?
Ashc , thats an interesting topic, worthy of discussion, lets explore it.
My understanding is that petrol needs to be - a gas to ignite, and needs an open flame to ignite ( or a spark ).
Could it be that the petrol is actually INSULATING the 2 points of the plug where the spark needs to jump?
Quote from: MartinyAshc , thats an interesting topic, worthy of discussion, lets explore it.
My understanding is that petrol needs to be - a gas to ignite, and needs an open flame to ignite ( or a spark ).
Could it be that the petrol is actually INSULATING the 2 points of the plug where the spark needs to jump?
thats what i thought - if fuel actually conducted electricity, there would be all manner of problems! I was told this when i fitted my uprated fuel pump to my old silvia - the plugs were just immersed in fuel with the contacts exposed and i wondered if the tank was liable to go pooof....
but with the sort of voltages designed to produce a spark, maybe there is some conductance?