No I haven\'t won anything - certainly not money :)
Wired in the eManage today - set the throttle sensor in the parameters setting (the only thing I couldn\'t set with it off the car) and gingerley started the engine - it ran :yes
Was a bit lumpy on the idle, and once it had warmed up - gave it a bit of right foot only to see clouds of white smoke behind :(
Engines rev\'s freely enough, and it starts each time, but it\'s running pig rich.
Now the thing is - the ultimate maps are all full of zero\'s which means no fuel is being added or cut - and the same goes for the airflow adjustment map (I will eventually use the airflow replacement map - but I need to trace the values into it first to populate the map out - before taking the AFM off).
Wondered if it was the ignition maps, as most people on the forums have not been able to get them to work, so swapped the ignition leads back to the stock ECU - same (at least it means the ignition wiring is good :Thumbs-up )
Going to have a massive trawl through the emanage list and forums to see if there is something I\'ve forgotten.
One question to anyone who tunes the rotary :
Do you know what the standard 550cc injector lag times are - I have a feeling it may be something like 20ms - but would like to get the info if someone has it.
Just for the record - Injector In and Out Duty are tracking each other - same percentage duty - so the eManage thinks it\'s not adding or cutting fuel either.
The only thing I can think of is that I may be loading one of the stock ECU sensor pins and causing it to run rich somehow. :rolleyes:
Quote from: ProfDo you know what the standard 550cc injector lag times are - I have a feeling it may be something like 20ms - but would like to get the info if someone has it.
Must have been way more tired than I thought - 20ms is way too high.
I have been browsing the old net and seems that the stock injectors may be 0.85ms lag time. I\'m going to try pushing those figures in and see what happens anyways. If anyone has the correct figures I would be greatful.
Also going to try the injectors straight through to the original ECU, that way only the signals that are tapped in and the airflow/boost are still affected by the emanage. It\'s one more thing taken out of the loop, and narrows down what\'s left.
The signals the eManage watches: Crank NE and G
BAC duty - signal will be used to adjust injectors for stable idle
Water Temp
Intake Air Temp
RPM (from Trailing coil)
TPS (Full range)
Vechicle Speed (not wired in yet - comes from cruise control)
All these signals are fed in parallel to both eManage and stock ECU
Signals eManage can modify: AFM
MAP
Injectos signals
Ingition signals
these signals have seperate inputs and outputs - at present the eManage is not supposed to be altering any of these signals
Going to measure with the multimeter to see what impact on the Water temp and IAT sensors the emanage has - throttle seems unaffected by being wired in parallel, but something is telling the stock ecu to run richer - and it must be some interference from the eManage. Both ECU\'s share the same ground to avoid ground loops.
I take it the E-manage is swapping from cold start to normal map? When I first put the LT10 on, as I miss wired it, the LT10 wasn\'t switching back to stock map after the cold start phase so it was plowing fuel it at a silly rate!
It monitors water temp and won\'t allow autotune until the temp is up. Water temps go up to about 86 and seem quite stable there (I\'m basing that on what the emanage says - so that could be wrong - but the stock temp gauge (not the best judge but generally better on the FC than the FD) reads dead centre.
Thing is I\'m not doing any mapping - everything is \'out\' so the signals should pass through unchanged. Whatever it is, it\'s as if the eManage is altering the stock signal and making the normal ECU go rich.
Time to get the multimeter out and measure !
If I can\'t get it working tonight then it\'s coming out for RS4 - can\'t take any chances with it.
e manage blue, or e manage ultimate?
I\'ve just wired up my ultimate to my mini harness and am going to be doing the big start up once I get the dash back in. By the way I\'ve been using a lot of yank forums to get it wired correctly (teamfc3s.org etc) and a lot of them say its runs very rich without adjusting the settings.
It\'s the Ultimate one. I checked the input impendances for the Water and Air intake feeds - 140K. That\'s not too bad for water temps, as the sensor is only a few K, so that error is small (2 or 3 degrees), but the air temp sensor is in the tens of K, so the error is large !
Going to make a simple buffer circuit to effectively isolate the signals, that should clean things up a bit and hopefully will be testing this later in the week / this weekend
I\'ll let you know.
Incidentally, those inputs are wired in parallel with stock ECU - that\'s why they are having an affect - if you fed the stock sensors into the emanage only it wouldn\'t be a problem - but then the stock ecu wouldn\'t see those signals anymore - which is bad :(
hi im thinking of getting an e-manage for my gen2 turbo ii
the kit i found contains for £250
| Description | Part # |
| E-MANAGE piggy-back engine management unit | 15500500 |
| INJECTOR HARNESS (for main and sub. inj. control) | 15900901 |
| IGNITION HARNESS (for ignition timing control) | 15900902 |
| SUPPORT TOOL, program CD w/ spl. cable | 15901001 |
but i also found that there is a harness and sencer that you can add to get rid of the stock afm and that works with this unit too
im after about 250bhp from my rx with the posability in the far future of going up to around 300 and later want to add new exhaust man and a t4 turbo, im currently running full de-cat and exhaust, and will be a hks air filter, but it will be hitting fuel cut, so im after the following from an ecu
map the fuel, map the ignition, rase fuel cut off point, up the boost (and one compatable with a boost controler or by re-mapping the ecu via a laptop while on the move, i have about £400-£500 to spend but dont wanna spend it all as need to do a oil change ect out of that too.
you got any ideas?
I bought a chipped ECU (Blitz Access) from eBay for my Tubby II - it\'s mapped for Exhaust (Decatted) and Intake (HKS), which is pretty much what I have on the car. You can pick up these \'tuned\' ECU\'s for between £50-£100 and they will also include FCD, Speed Limit Cut and Rev Limit Cut, so you save on those items. With the addition of a boost controller to that setup you will see 250BHP at the fly with no problem, possibly at the wheels, but you will need to get some better cooling in - as the stock intercooler is not very good when you start pushing it.
Stock Intercooler and Turbo will not really take you beyond 12psi boost, but that will be making good power with a properly chipped ECU.
For more power than that, expect to change the intercooler, injectors and go for an aftermarket standalone or the eManage (It\'s the ultimate version that will let you lose the AFM)
well im going to use prob an after market mr2 turbo intercooler or if i can find a cheap fc3s one then ill use that but mr2 one is small but will handle big power,
well my plan for the future is injectors t4 turbo convertion and intercooler alloy rad and then will be buying new engine parts so if it does blow in the close future i will have replacement parts and dont have to think sh*t i got a £1400 bill it would be a bit less if i have some of the parts already.
i have been looking at the blitz chiped ecu but as they were going for about £120 or so for some sim ones, and in the future if i wanted to run a t4 i would need to upgrade the ecu i thought an e-manage now might save me a few ££ later onb if i can/could aford it then i would go for an e-manage ult. just trying to find out what people recomend as i dont want to do the buy cheap and cr*p and pay later i would rather spend money now and poss save the few ££ later or pay for what my needs are then if they change have to spend it all again on new parts!
Hey prof,
What did you do to sort out the EXTREMELY RICH overfuelling from the e-manage ultimate? I tried to start mine for the first time with the ultimate wired in and map switches off, Only got to start once and it sounded rough!
I think I put an injector map to -40 @ 500rpm to get it to fire up, revved it up and down between 1000-3000rpm and just shut it off cause it was so rough. Didnt even make any sign of firing when cranking after that, regardless of setting and even after doing the long de-flooding method (remove spark plugs + egi + crank for 30 sec etc).
Also have you got a basic map yet? I\'ve got a basically standard car with HKS mushroom filter and 3\' straight through w/hi flow cat so if you\'re running a similiar setup it might be worth trying that.
I\'ve built a little gizmo to go between the eManage and the stock ECU - basically it\'s acting like a buffer for the water, air and throttle signals. It will also capture water and air temps and output them on a serial cable for use with an LCD display so I can see what they are realtime. Will put pics up when it\'s done. I ran out of time before Japshow Finale, so haven\'t got it in and tested yet :(
My car ran and also restarted with the eManage, but it ran very rough and with clouds of vapour out the back. I\'m still running the AFM at the moment, as I need to capture that map before I can take it out.
I\'ll keep you posted on progress - hopefuly get the little buffer box finished this week and get the eManage in again at the weekend ?
I\'m running 3" downpipe, no cat, and a standard Racing Beat 3" to 2.5" Y pipe and mufflers, HKS intake, modified induction setup (straight pipe with single 45 degree bend), street ported engine and modified hybrid turbo, but aside from that it\'s stock
i like the "apart from that its stock" comment
i like the idea of the LCD display :D
Quote from: grinderi like the "apart from that its stock" comment
i like the idea of the LCD display :D
thought that might raise a smile. That conversion of the stock sensors to a readable figure is a maths nightmare in a microchip - the thermistor thingies that are used in the sensors are logarithmic, so the easiest way to get a value is to use a lookup table with the values already calculated - thank god for Excel - made that job a whole load easier. The Excel formula is a nightmare !
Effectively what I\'ve done is to emulate a log table in the micro, so you pass it a voltage value from the sensor, and it looks up the corresponding 2 digit temperature.
oohhhhh nice :D
Right well things have got soooo much worse since installing the emanage!
Before I just had the s-afc installed (it didnt really seem to make much difference to be honest) and it was hard to start, quite often I could only get it to start by holding it on WOT and then letting it pump fuel in when i started to fire up. After a good run and allowing it to be warm it would start straight away normally.
Now I tried to start it for the first time after installing the e manage (after triple checking the wiring and settings) and it wouldnt fire up. I eventually got it started by putting in -40 on the fuel adjustment map and it was running VERY rough, and so rich it was just puffing white smoke out the exhaust. So I turned it off after about 3 seconds not wanting to cause too much damage.
It didnt start again after that, so I got some new plugs, took out the emanage and installed my Crane Cams HI-6R hoping that might help burn the fuel a bit better. Once I\'d put it all together it started fine and idled a bit lumpy (still overfuelling even without the emanage, moreso than before, like the emanage had left its mark), I left it like this for a few min then went to drive it, as soon as I touched the throttle it just died :P
Then came hours of it firing up to about 2000-3000 rpm and just dying, or very very occaisionally running (only with me constantly altering the throttle) so rough that it sounds like it was going to blow itself, it also sounded that as soon as the rpms were constant for more than a second or two the ignition timing would just slip all over the place and try to stall it.
I\'ve check over so many things, but theres not a lot I can do without replacing entire components (ecu, CAS, etc).
Please help! lol I\'ve now missed two MOT\'s due to it not starting right before the main event
[On a side note, what does the emanage logger pick up the water temp as before the engine has warmed up? I think mine was something like 40 c?]
From memory mine started at about mid to high 20\'s and went to 86 during the warmup.
Not sure if you\'ve tried this, but did you disconnect the battery and leave it 10 or so seconds and then reconnect - that should clear the codes out of the old ECU if there were any, and let it find it\'s own way again with the eManage out of circuit.
One other question - what release of firmware are you using in the eManage - there was a lot of problems with early releases - I have 2.11 in mine at present, and I think 2.13 is available now (eManage Ultimate) - not sure if you have the blue one what versions they are on. I would recommend the Ultimate over the older blue one in any case, as it has much better control for rotaries.
I have the ultimate, with the latest firmware, 2.13. So theoretically that shouldn\'t be the problem.
I\'ve read over what you wrote in this thread and am I correct in thinking that it was the Intake Air Temp sensor wiring what was causing the problem? [that it thought it was hotter/cooler than it was and therefore injected too much fuel?] And that the device you are creating will stop the signal resistance changing?
I also read on a US forum that people found that their ultimate stopped overfuelling when they disconnected the injector ground (but then had no control over it). Sadly nobody seems to have posted up the results of how they fixed it, and many more sold the ultimate on to buy a microtech!
Quote from: BenLewisMavI\'ve read over what you wrote in this thread and am I correct in thinking that it was the Intake Air Temp sensor wiring what was causing the problem? [that it thought it was hotter/cooler than it was and therefore injected too much fuel?] And that the device you are creating will stop the signal resistance changing?
That\'s basically it - the Engine air intake signal (the sensor on the throttle body, as that\'s the one I have wired up as it\'s more useful) was being loaded by the eManage and this makes it read \'low\' on the temperature - upto 40 degrees low - which means a lot more fuel get\'s chucked in
Quote from: BenLewisMavI also read on a US forum that people found that their ultimate stopped overfuelling when they disconnected the injector ground (but then had no control over it). Sadly nobody seems to have posted up the results of how they fixed it, and many more sold the ultimate on to buy a microtech!
The way I wired the loom, I could disconnect ignition and injectors seperately and wire them back to the stock ECU - it still ran rich when the only wires attached to the eManage were the sensors - so the problem isn\'t with the injector outputs (the ultimate was reporting 5.7% in and 5.7% out for fueling on idle, so it hadn\'t altered the signal itself) The one guy with an MX5 did get this to work.
The issue seems to be the impedance of the sensors in the old system - which are several tens of Kilohms, and the relatively low impedance of the inputs on the eManage (about 140K), so they create a significant load. More modern ECU\'s and sensors are probably less effected because they can work with much lower resistances and still be accurate. It doesn\'t help that the sensor devices are logarithmic, so the errors are worse at one end of the temp scale.
These were the voltages with the eMange unplugged:
Air Flow Meter: 3.98
Intake Air 4.36
Water 2.72
Boost 2.31
And the same signales with the eManage connected:
Air Flow Meter 4.03
Intake Air 4.23
Water 2.71
Boost 2.31
These readings were taken from a cold engine, not started, so they represent the signals the ECU would find on starting. As you can see, Intake Air temps are reading quite a bit lower than they actually are, and the stock ECU seems to compensate for the \'cold day\' by overfuelling. Boost signal and Air Flow were measured on the output side of the Ultimate, so these are the signals after they\'ve passed through it - Boost is unaffected (which is how I\'ve set it) and AFM seems to show a slight error, but that could easily be mapped out.
Ah right ic. Do you think this could still have an influence on the system, even with the emanage unplugged?
I really dont know whats causing it to be so hard to start, the engine was rebuilt 6k ago, so should have good comp, new plugs, completely put back to standard, deflooded and still won\'t start, or at least run smoothly without cutting out..
It also sounds as if the ign. timing is slipping all over the place. Is it possible with no alterations to the ign map that connecting the ultimate has messed with the ign. timing?
Also is there any way to test if the CAS is defective?