Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Anything Engine/Performance/Tuning related => Topic started by: evo_ray on July 05, 2007, 05:58:53 PM

Title: Water Injection
Post by: evo_ray on July 05, 2007, 05:58:53 PM
I\'m thinking of buying and fitting WI to the FD.  I\'ve seen an Aquamist kit for about £500.  Are these kits easy to install or do they need proffessional installation?

Also, what kits would people recommend?
Title: Water Injection
Post by: rx7veilside on July 06, 2007, 08:43:05 AM
get the cooling mist kit looks best value and simple to install
Title: Water Injection
Post by: evo_ray on July 06, 2007, 10:12:26 AM
Like this?
http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/coolingmist%20vari%20cool%20stainles.htm (http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/coolingmist%20vari%20cool%20stainles.htm)
Title: Water Injection
Post by: nikp on July 06, 2007, 10:14:04 AM
Could just go for this one: http://www.coolingmist.com/detailmain.aspx?pid=Cool150

Much cheaper. Not quite so many bells and whistles.
Title: Water Injection
Post by: rx7veilside on July 06, 2007, 10:59:18 AM
cooling mist trunk mount simple install and good for controlling intake temps
i wouldnt use wi for tuning unless u go high end eg aquamist new system but 700.00 quid is too steep for me..only want to watrd of det while on boost
look on coolingmist.com for details
Title: Water Injection
Post by: evo_ray on July 06, 2007, 12:02:46 PM
Quote from: nikpCould just go for this one: http://www.coolingmist.com/detailmain.aspx?pid=Cool150 (http://www.coolingmist.com/detailmain.aspx?pid=Cool150)

Much cheaper. Not quite so many bells and whistles.

$200! Wow thats a good price!

Has anyone got one of these fitted? A few pics would be great!
Title: Water Injection
Post by: strange_days_uk on July 06, 2007, 12:47:55 PM
I have.

Great kit, cheap and easy fit and work well.
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on July 07, 2007, 02:38:25 PM
i\'m about to order one of these too, anybody else? could try for a group buy and if nothing else save on postage.

adie
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Laeeq on July 07, 2007, 02:51:58 PM
Quote from: Adie Moorei\'m about to order one of these too, anybody else? could try for a group buy and if nothing else save on postage.

adie

i did a group but on these kits and yes the guy did gave us a very good discounted price for 3 kits and in between 3 of us, we saved about 50quid each i think.   It will be worth if you get an extra boost switch as spare.  They do break once hot so put it away from heat....
Title: Water Injection
Post by: rx7veilside on July 08, 2007, 06:28:57 AM
just about to order the trunk mount kit much better no relays just live/earth and run vac pipe and water pipe to engine bay and ur done using stainless hose the kit is about 220.00 anybody want to try for a mini group buy before i order
Title: Water Injection
Post by: evo_ray on July 08, 2007, 11:01:57 AM
I\'m in with one of them.....just not sure which at the moment.  A little confused............
Title: Water Injection
Post by: xm9999 on July 08, 2007, 01:00:39 PM
I\'m in for one too. Damn good timing. Just got to work out which one
Title: Water Injection
Post by: benRX7 on July 08, 2007, 05:45:36 PM
I`ve got their single stage kit and seems to work fine. I do use Aquamist injectors, I don`t like the look of the coolingmist ones and an aquamist anti-surge accumulator. I run 50/50 water meth coming in at 5psi. I`m running 400rwhp at 1.2bar.
 
I`m adding a second injector now upping to 10psi when it kicks in and will be trying for higher boost when a few other things have been done.
 
Its an ok budget kit and a nice little saftey feature.
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on July 08, 2007, 08:03:43 PM
Ok, I\'ll drop them an e-mail saying we have ~ 4-5 people looking in to their kits. Nothing spacific (sp) and see what sort of thing they might be willing to do.

Oh, and if we/I\'m are standing on any vendors toes, speak up.

cheers adie
Title: Water Injection
Post by: m4drx on July 08, 2007, 10:52:21 PM
can anyone reccomend the kit mentioned above $200 for a slightly over stock car? would it work ok what jets hoses etc etc?

cheers
Title: Water Injection
Post by: gillard28 on July 15, 2007, 12:32:46 AM
Get the aquamist kit. Forget coolingmist there kits are rubbish. Pay the extra for the best
Title: Water Injection
Post by: rx7veilside on July 15, 2007, 05:53:21 AM
wouldnt say rubbish as aquamist pumps have quite a high failure rate unless u go for the dogs danglies 700.00 quid system and basic systems are fine for just cooling intake if u are tuning with water then i wld go for the top end aquamist kit that a few others have but the basic aquamist is overpriced
Title: Water Injection
Post by: gillard28 on July 16, 2007, 01:38:41 PM
The differance is in the quality of the kits. The AQ kits have lots of development and have been propperly designed. They also atmoise correctly.
 
The coolingmist kits work off a cut out switch. basically the pressure spikes untill it hits the limit. so a 150 psi kit will not deliver 150psi at the nozzle. The flow is also erratic. The aquamist HFS-5 is about £500 and will mimic inj duty so the flow will always be reglated and a perfect match. Unlike the boost based systems with micky mouse pressure switches or a re boxed lighting dimmer (triac) to alter flow
 
S
Title: Water Injection
Post by: gillard28 on July 16, 2007, 01:38:55 PM
The differance is in the quality of the kits. The AQ kits have lots of development and have been propperly designed. They also atmoise correctly.
 
The coolingmist kits work off a cut out switch. basically the pressure spikes untill it hits the limit. so a 150 psi kit will not deliver 150psi at the nozzle. The flow is also erratic. The aquamist HFS-5 is about £500 and will mimic inj duty so the flow will always be reglated and a perfect match. Unlike the boost based systems with micky mouse pressure switches or a re boxed lighting dimmer (triac) to alter flow
 
S
Title: Water Injection
Post by: BlitzBoy on July 16, 2007, 02:11:18 PM
Cooling mist is fine for just cooling the intake temps and as safety feature, but would not tune with it personally eg take fuel out with it.

Aquamist now do a HFS-1 kit which is much cheaper then the HFS-5 kit but still uses the uprated pump and mimics injector duty but you lose the bell and whistles eg High Speed Valve
Title: Water Injection
Post by: rx7veilside on July 16, 2007, 03:29:02 PM
never met blitzboy but have heard he is the dogs danglies when it comes to water injection..as i said if tuning use the aquamist but if just for cooling intake ie in warm weather and off the line after sitting at lights the cooling mist will do the trick..the aquamist is for die hard power guys who tune using water/meth injection but be warned tune for water and anything fails and split second kaboom..u pays ur money and takes ur chances.water does fall into 2 categories tuning and cooling
Title: Water Injection
Post by: BlitzBoy on July 16, 2007, 03:34:36 PM
The Aquamist system does have failsafes if tuning for WI eg Low water Level , Blocked water supply etc etc, when it detects one of these states you can have it where it will switch the boost controller off and run just off the wastegate eg low boost.
Title: Water Injection
Post by: BlitzBoy on July 16, 2007, 03:41:14 PM
here is the diagram for the cheaper HFS1 kit which is still pretty advanced but uses the cheaper solenoid instead of the Highspeed valve and there is no accumalator although can be triggered by injector duty it does not scale to fuel injector duty
Title: Water Injection
Post by: rx7veilside on July 16, 2007, 03:52:29 PM
def difference in quality in the 2 kits all depends on what u are looking to achieve and of course how deep ur pockets are..mind u with a rx7 u have to have pockets down to ur ankles..
Title: Water Injection
Post by: TracNGaz on July 16, 2007, 04:22:01 PM
Quote from: rx7veilsidedef difference in quality in the 2 kits all depends on what u are looking to achieve and of course how deep ur pockets are..mind u with a rx7 u have to have pockets down to ur ankles..

**Has visions of the great escape**
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on July 17, 2007, 02:52:48 PM
Ok, I\'v been in touch with cooling mist and they sound like they\'r able to offer a discount to us. They will need to know what kits people want and how many before they say how much disc we can have. Note shipping is $60.
This list is for my reference only, so as i can relay to David at cooling mist exact figures.
I will arrange an ordering system with them so as you place your own order and get delivery to your own address ( this is for my financial safety ).
Please only add to the list if you are in a position to buy NOW. Otherwise it may screw up your fellow members chances at getting the discount. Cheers

Adie Moore    - Cool 150, 216 to 360 hp
Title: Water Injection
Post by: StormBleeder on July 17, 2007, 04:33:39 PM
I\'m aiming for 400rwhp and only want the WI system to help lower the intake temps, will the "Cool 150, 361 to 500 hp" be up to the job?  
If so count me in. :D
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on July 17, 2007, 05:46:47 PM
Dont know mate, i\'m only 300rwhp. i think the only differance is the injector size... more power, more water. i wouldn\'t like to give advice as i dont know that much myself but i guess if you have everything in place to run 400 safely and this is something extra then i cant see why not.
adie
Title: Water Injection
Post by: StormBleeder on July 17, 2007, 06:35:34 PM
Yep that\'s pretty much what I was thinking as well.   Count me in anyway. :D

Adie Moore - Cool 150, 216 to 360 hp
StormBleeder - Cool 150, 361 to 500 hp
Title: Water Injection
Post by: gillard28 on July 17, 2007, 09:55:47 PM
The amount of water you will need will vary greatly from 300 to 500 hp
 
The atomisation for the given jet at X pressure is going to be a massive factor and will ultimatly determine what happens in the combustion chamber. If you dont tune for it the water will loose you power as well as bog the engine down more due to the the fact you are altering the burn cycle (BMEP) and perfect combustion point or PPP. The use of water will slow the combustion and you tuned ecu will ignite the fuel to early to make use of the extra enery. I would say the differance from a tuned only on petrol FD and one not tuned on water or 50:50 would be about 0.5 seconds to 1 seconds on the drag strip. This will ultimatly be decided by how much you decide to inject and where but you should be aware that the charge cooling effect in respect to IAT is only a side effect and is not the primary function of water injection.
 
I am not a fan of the coolingmist stuff and i would be very very careful. (you have been warned)
 
 
S
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on July 18, 2007, 04:54:46 PM
^^^
Ok, so do you have anything constructive to add.
Title: Water Injection
Post by: arrouk on July 18, 2007, 05:29:24 PM
id be interested in a kit not sure which yet though, let me know if you get enough interest for a group buy.

matt
Title: Water Injection
Post by: gillard28 on July 18, 2007, 08:44:50 PM
That was constructive,
Title: Water Injection
Post by: arrouk on July 18, 2007, 09:20:34 PM
Quote from: gillard28That was constructive,

just to add it was a constructive.......ish as what you say is correct but i would only be using water as a safety measure and as such dont mind losing a few bhp, but i agree that it can be used to get far better results if mapped for.

matt
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Hotrx on July 19, 2007, 07:25:39 AM
I\'ll take one of these aswell
 
Adie Moore - Cool 150, 216 to 360 hp
StormBleeder - Cool 150, 361 to 500 hp
Hotrx - Cool 150, 361 to 500 hp
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on July 19, 2007, 04:51:04 PM
Quote from: gillard28That was constructive,

I didn\'t mean it to sound like a dig. Apologies.
 But assuming you have some experience with WI then, good and bad, what would you do. The cheapest aqua mist kit is ~ £400 and that\'s a big difference. I know you get what you pay for but...
Title: Water Injection
Post by: gillard28 on July 20, 2007, 04:37:04 PM
I was the first person in the country to run the coolingmist vari cool. I also worked with aquamist to develope kits for the rotary.
 
I had numerous problems with the coolingmist stuff. ie the kits did\'nt work like they were claimed to. This was not a 1 off either. I have hard data taken from a tuned FD as well as lots of video evedence.
 
The aquamist stuff works. I know this becasue i helped develope it. The AQ kits runs a differant sort of pump as well even though they look similar. There is a lot of very technical help with AQ.
The Aquamist kit ran on the bonniville top speed JCB diesel car and has sound back ground.
 
The only claims coolingmist have are a few false dyno charts and a lot of chat.
 
S
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on July 26, 2007, 06:04:38 PM
BUMP. Any more takers?
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on July 30, 2007, 01:16:27 PM
Right i\'m gonna email them now and say we have ~4 people ready to buy. i\'ll let you have any info as soon as they get back to me.
adie
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on August 02, 2007, 05:26:28 PM
Ok, they can do us a price of $165 for the stock 150psi kit if we order 4. At todays exchange rate thats £81.11. i\'ll get some ordering info and let you know what to do. Could you put your names down again to conferm.

cheers adie

Adie Moore
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Lum on August 02, 2007, 06:03:23 PM
Is that price for the ful setup?
Is it too late for me to join in on this please?
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on August 02, 2007, 06:15:44 PM
Its every thing you will need for a basic on/off system. Pump, switch, pipe, injector and some cable. Never too late mate, welcome aboard.
adie
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Lum on August 02, 2007, 09:43:28 PM
Rite i\'m in then! Let me know the details regarding payment etc.
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on August 06, 2007, 10:11:19 AM
To make things a bit easier ANYONE can order for a reduced price of 18% off web site price, any kit. email David at info@coolingmist.com he will send you a link so you can order. Be quick though, he wants all orders by this Thurs (9th) and i dont want to mess him arround, however if you ask nicely i cant see him refusing business if you\'r only a day or 3 late ;) . shipping is still ~$60 £15. Not bad if you ask me.

Adie
Title: Water Injection
Post by: antnicuk on August 06, 2007, 05:06:25 PM
hi,
i\'m interested in one of these,  can i just confirm that its $165 us dollars and shipping is $60 US,  just wondered cos your post above mentions $60 - £15.
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on August 06, 2007, 05:29:09 PM
well done, spotted my deliberate mistake :rolleyes:  You\'v won a gold fish, where should i post it.
Yeah $60 postage.
cheers adie
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Laeeq on August 06, 2007, 11:57:54 PM
Guys i need a big favour from you all please.  If you guys do go ahead with the group buy then could you get me a boost switch?  I have spoken to (Dave i think) at coolingmist as they wanted $32 just for delivery for one of these.  Once the group buy is in place i can then pay him for the switch and then he will just stick one in with the rest of the kit and once here i will pay for postage or what ever it cost to get it off you guys?  Please let me know if thats ok?  I will keep an eye on this thread and once ready then i will pay him for the switch at the same time.

Thanks
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on August 07, 2007, 01:31:08 PM
yeah mate, no worries. i\'m happy for it to go in with my delivery. unless some one is closed to you and could prob save you postage in the uk, tell them to stick it in the box for Adrian Moore.
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Laeeq on August 07, 2007, 01:39:24 PM
Quote from: Adie Mooreyeah mate, no worries. i\'m happy for it to go in with my delivery. unless some one is closed to you and could prob save you postage in the uk, tell them to stick it in the box for Adrian Moore.

Thanks!

So when are you guys likely to place an order with them so that i can make pay him at the same time?
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Lum on August 07, 2007, 06:18:38 PM
Quote from: Adie MooreTo make things a bit easier ANYONE can order for a reduced price of 18% off web site price, any kit. email David at info@coolingmist.com he will send you a link so you can order. Be quick though, he wants all orders by this Thurs (9th) and i dont want to mess him arround, however if you ask nicely i cant see him refusing business if you\'r only a day or 3 late ;) . shipping is still ~$60 £15. Not bad if you ask me.

Adie
HI Mate
I\'ve emailed David at coolingmist regarding placing an order & he has asked for the names of all the people who are ordering something and what they want, then he will create a link to forward to everybody.
Have you already done this?
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on August 07, 2007, 09:05:02 PM
sorry mate, crossed wires between david and I, i think. just sent him email to clear things up.
adie
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Lum on August 07, 2007, 09:50:56 PM
Ok mate no worries! Just out of interest what kits are people going for?
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on August 08, 2007, 07:57:40 PM
try again mate, saying which kit you want. i\'v had the basic 150psi.
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Lum on August 08, 2007, 08:34:19 PM
Already sorted it mate! David was most helpfull! Ended up ordering the stageII Varicool controler kit!
Thanks for organising this mate, Made a decent saving on something i was gonna buy anyway! You gonna be at RS4? I\'ll have to buy you a beer!
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Adie Moore on August 08, 2007, 09:47:58 PM
Hell Yeah :guinness  dont know how meny people took the offer up. so if it was just u and i it was very good of them to do us a discount at all, when initillay i told them ~4.
adie
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Tintin on August 09, 2007, 07:38:43 PM
For anyone that fancies an Aquamist kit but can\'t afford the list price , try looking on fleabay , I got mine for £100 , couple of bits missing but I got them from turbobits , my kit ended up costing me less than £150

Its worth a look
Title: Water Injection
Post by: FEED Rocket on September 28, 2007, 11:57:28 AM
Are these kits easy to fit? Do i need to drill anything? Are instructions provided?
Title: Water Injection
Post by: Tintin on September 28, 2007, 08:21:39 PM
Its not that hard to fit but it depends how complex a kit you go for , obviously the more complex the more time consuming it will be to fit , if you have a look at the aquamist website you can download fitting instuctions

You are going to need some technical skills , check out the fitting instructions and see if you feel capable of fitting it yourself , it doesn\'t matter if your not going for a aquamist kit as the basic principles are the same , wiring is the main thing that differs