I want to tune my FC turbo 2 in two stages, ultimatly reaching 400bhp. 1st stage I would aim for 300. What steps would you recommend to achive this without blowing it up?
How much money have you got???
in theory 300bhp is possible with stock turbo, and stock ports (although I have some doubts on this point).
you need:
additional fueling (pump and injectors)
boost control
ECU (ideally a full stand alone unit - Microtech, Haltech or Power FC)
uprated intercooler (ideally FMIC or V-Mount)
the above should just about push 300 at the fly.
to be sure you really need porting - a nice big streetport will do the job, although I prefer a big bridge myself ;)
400 at the wheels is really pushing it for the Turbo II block, at the fly it is achievable with the right work. Mine should be circa 400 at the fly when it comes back, expected spec as follows:
1/2 Bridgeport
Microtech LT10s ECU
Garrett GT4088 turbo
4 x 1000cc injectors
Bosch 044 fuel pump
custom V-Mount IC
Blitz SBC Boost controller
+ a few other bits
what size intercooler would I need, do I need more injectors or just bigger ones to replace standard? would a FD pump do the trick, and what do I need an ECU for? lots of questions I know but I\'m a bit new to modifying.
TBH I think the size of the intercooler is probably the least of your problems...
Anyway, you could use either more injectors or bigger ones, the problem with using additional injectors is that it makes controlling them even more of a nightmare than it already is. The usual recommendation for an Apexi ECU would probably be out of the window straight away as I doubt that that could control five or six injectors.
And no, an FD fuel pump is unlikely to deliver the necessary amount of fuel, hence jetpilot\'s recommendation of a Bosch 044.
All in all, you\'d need to invest some serious work and money into the car to double the design output; yes, it can be done (there are a few people on the forum with FCs like this) but I don\'t think they started with a 400bhp engine.
It\'s either that or handing a hell of a lot of money to a specialist to build you a car like that.
ok, I\'m only looking to get 300 for now, 400 will probably never happen (i can dream) what am I looking at for 300? What injectors do I use with the 044 pump and will the standard ecu be able to controll them?
sorry to be a pain but if someone has the time could they write a step by step plan of what needs to be done in what order bearing in mind I would still like to keep using the car to to some extent. would be GREATLY appreciated
Aim for 280 - this is possible on the stock engine and turbo. You will need a decent (3") bore system, high flow filter, reprogrammed ECU, uprated pump, a BOV that will allow you to run more than 14psi and a bigger intercooler. (The stock IC will just about get you to 250 on an average day 265 if you can rig up a cooling spray)
After that you need to get the block out for some work, a higher capacity snail, bigger injectors and the loom will probably want some work as the FC ones are a little rotten by now and you really dont want any volt drop on the sensors....
:wave
If you go for a reprogrammed ECU (like a knightsports or a RE-Amemiya) you may as well get a Microtech for the cost, especially as it is re-mappable for future mods.
Stock ECU will struggle with fueling control and the in-built fuel cut will present a problem, you could get round this with an FCD (Fuel Cut Defencer), but they just trick the ECU into thinking the boost level is lower than it actually is, so without a way of increasing fueling you will run lean. And as everyone on here will tell you LEAN fueling = detonation = engine damage.
As Brett has said you need:
1) some sort of uprated or aftermarket ECU (I am a Microtech fan myself)
2) uprated IC - ARC do a decent stock replacement with a much greater capacity good for prob up to about 320bhp
3) either additional injectors (controlling them can be an issue) or larger injectors - I\'d go for stock primaries and 1000cc secondaries for the power you are after
4) uprated fuel pump ideally something like a Bosch 044 (mounted in-tank otherwise you have to do the whole swirlpot thing)
the above should see you to the 280-290bhp area.
Mark - the last chipped ECU that i picked up was only £43.50 delivered - so not really in the microtech price range !!
i ran a FCD on my FD and using a narrowband gauge it NEVER ran lean - even at WOT it still ran rich
maybe i was just lucky eh !!
you could always use a SAFC to control fueling - it will handle 720 secondaries and allow you to tune them down to control the idle and 3800 rpm cross over
Be careful.....the standard turbo will not produce enough flow for anywhere near 300hp. If you try and run it anymore than 12psi, it will last for about 3000miles, and will be heating up the air alot. The turbo is out of it\'s efficiency range at anything past 12psi.
Follow this list, and you won\'t go far wrong.
Reliable and quick 280ish:
Ducted air filter
Exhaust, including downpipe
Microtech ECU
Walbro high pressure fuel pump
1000cc secondary injectors
Water injection
All the above should cost you no more than 1200 pounds.
Add onto this a TO4E hybrid turbo from Turbo Dynamics(Using a rebuilt S5 core and a A/R 60 compressor) and you will achieve in the region of 350hp.
From here you will need to conscider an aftermarket radiator.
The list above will give you a very good starting point, as you need to only add on, and not take off what you have just tried.
Regards,
John
Quote from: grinderMark - the last chipped ECU that i picked up was only £43.50 delivered - so not really in the microtech price range !!
i ran a FCD on my FD and using a narrowband gauge it NEVER ran lean - even at WOT it still ran rich
maybe i was just lucky eh !!
you could always use a SAFC to control fueling - it will handle 720 secondaries and allow you to tune them down to control the idle and 3800 rpm cross over
I\'m just a little uncomfortable about using a device to trick the ecu into thinking that boost is lower than it is, especially if underfuelling can be so damaging. I know a lot of people use FCDs on the FC with no problem - maybe down to the fact that the FC tends to run a little rich.
re: the chipped ECU, yes, they are a fair bit cheaper than a full stand alone unit (saying that just did an ebay hunt and the RE-A Redom for the FC comes in at £120 - which isn\'t that cheap and remember it is mapped for JDM fuel and can\'t be re-mapped) but the additional spend means you have a base for future mods too.
The SAFC makes a bit of sense, really does depend on what you are after in the end, if you are looking for BIG power in the end, might as well get the groundwork done now. After all if you go for a chipped ECU or SAFC now and then decide you want to chase stupid power in the future you\'ll end up having to by the ECU, injectors, pump, etc in the end.
One other thing I forgot to mention: FREE Flowing exhaust! (decat etc)
^^^ what John (88GT-R) said :)
What John doesn\'t know about FCs would probably fit on a postage stamp
The route I\'m going:
Walborough pump in tank (get the high pressure one - it\'s better flowing at the top end)
3" Exhaust systen (Racing Beat)
Ducted Intake (HKS Filter and 3" inlet piping with single 45 degree bend)
Hybrid Turbo (Stock hot side, t04b cold AR .60. 360 thrust bearings, ported wategate)
Boost Controller (Profec B Spec II)
800cc Secondaries
Greddy eManage piggy back
ARC top mount intercooler
Water Injection
Water Spray
Ignition Amp
Steet Ported engine on 3mm seals
Eventually Primaries will be upgraded to 800cc
Intercooler may be replaced with chargecooler - need to monitor intake temps.
Cold Air box !
Target is 300bhp at the wheels (about 360 ish at the fly)
As John has already said, keep in mind upgrades that don\'t need swapping back out if you want to get a little more power. Also have a target in mind and work towards it - changing the goal posts once you\'ve started will get expensive.
yeah this is true i suppose
if you defo want 400 BHP - then go with the microtech straight away and keep tuning it as the mods to the car change
no point doing it in stages .. 280 / 320 / 350 / 375 / 400 etc...
spent it now and spend it once ( he says !! )
ok, I think my plans are bigger than my wallet (whats new) 300 I can afford so i\'ll stick to that. cheers for the ideas so far lads, keep em comin.
If you want a chat, send me your number to arty26we@yahoo.com I will be back in the UK on friday, and will be going up to the Japshow at Santa Pod on Saturday and Sunday.
Regards,
John