I am in the mood to be controversial :D
I have owned my rx7 for just over 8 years now, and have done a number of modifications to my car, some I regret, some I am very pleased with. When I read books concerning the design principles of the FD3S and what Kobayakawa intended for the car, I find myself wondering what we are doing when we change too much from the original design.
Weight was the enemy in the original design, and we all (me included) go and add various heavier parts, larger intercoolers, bigger alloy wheels, alloy hardpipe kits etc..., I wonder if we are really \'improving\' our vehicles at all?
The twin turbo setup is complex, everyone knows that, but when it\'s working, it\'s an amazing piece of engineering and gives the car amazing low down and high end punch. Why did Mazda fit this complex and expensive solution when a much simpler single turbo generating much more power was available, and this has nowadays become the favoured option?
I have friends with Skylines and Subarus, and compared to them the FD3S is a scalpel, where they are sledgehammers, I can\'t help wondering if with all the modifications we all make (I include myself in this, so I am not being sanctimonious), are we really improving the car? Or should we just enjoy the remarkable machine for what it is as Mazda intended it to be?
Richard
I know what your saying about the Wheels and rads etc but the simple fact of the matter is you have to use Quality Parts. For example, If you change your Rims there is a fair chance you will Bugger up your Handling if you fit Cheap 18" rims but that said if you Buy Proper rims like Volk\'s, Enkies, rays etc you may gain some weight but you will have more rubber on the Ground (there in\'t much point in having a Powerfull car if you can\'t put it down) and it will help your Unsprung weight as much as Poss. Then you have things like IC\'s this is a Simalar thing, if you are going to be running Stock twins then you should be running some thing like the Greddy SMIC then for the Extra weight you will be getting better Cooling and Flow = More Power so the power to weight will go up, how about Big IC\'s??? well same sort of thing, if you are Running a Single you need a Big IC so it all come in again more weight? but you have lost some removing the Twins and you have even more Hp to even out the Power to weight?
The thing i think is Daft is when people buy cheap wheels etc that weigh alot more than stock, fitting a Big monster IC with Twins also comes into that bracket as its not realy needed (thats unless your planning on going single then you excused ;))
Thing is There are alot of people out there who Buy an FD because it looks nice, so the car ends up getting Chav\'d and Ruined in my Opinion, the other side of it is where some one Buys an FD for Track days and the sort of driving it was Made for, If you watch them they allways seem to remove More weight in old Bits and not needed Pipe work etc than the new Part itself so they only see the Advantages without the extra Weight They are always looking at weights too, you won\'t find a Track man shopping at Halfrauds for wheels?
I think when mazda made the FD they where looking at performance,Looks and MPG (MPG was oviously last on the list) so they tried to Ballance every thing to a degree, but if you are more intrested in going fast and not too Bothered about it Looking prity or MPG you will have an Advantage over Mazda.
There is also the issue of designing a car for public sale which has to be reliable, quiet and easy to live with. Mazda only just did this with the 7 in my opinion.
Once it\'s sold you can go crazy as there are less limitations. If it is a better car standard then why are they modified for racing?
EDIT: good point though, there is definitely something appealing about leaving a car in it\'s almost standard form :)
There is always going to be the argument of reliabilty mod\'s. At the end of the day the FD\'s are getting on and some things are just easyer to replace with aftermarket parts.
nah, mines is standard and staying that way! none of this bhp whos is faster and furious stuff, ill leave that to you guys lol
It comes down to personal preference thing really, do you really want all the RX\'s to all look the same with the same mods ??
I always say to people at meets theres hardly ever 2 rx\'s the same at a meet unless they are completely standard, and it means we have loads of cars to look over at meets and chat about.
All depends on the individual :Thumbs-up
Quote from: gsb876It comes down to personal preference thing really, do you really want all the RX\'s to all look the same with the same mods ??
I always say to people at meets theres hardly ever 2 rx\'s the same at a meet unless they are completely standard, and it means we have loads of cars to look over at meets and chat about.
All depends on the individual :Thumbs-up
Oh yes, I agree, I just wondered if we should be messing with what was already a very good design. I do accept there were some faults, there are with any mechanical device.
Richard
I think there are other issues with "standard" cars, remember the issues that car manufacturers are up against are contradictory (reliability, economy, comfort, performance, cost reduction). Some modifications can improve the performance of the RX7 but often at the cost of at least one of the other priorities.
Quote from: sadgothI think there are other issues with "standard" cars, remember the issues that car manufacturers are up against are contradictory (reliability, economy, comfort, performance, cost reduction). Some modifications can improve the performance of the RX7 but often at the cost of at least one of the other priorities.
I am not sure the FD3S was so compromised, look at the price when released, it was a very expensive car, and look at the underlying technology, alloy suspension, complex twin turbo setup, extensive use of plastics.
Most of the reliability issues seemed to stem from the limits of available lightweight materials at the time of manufacture?
I believe as standard it was a very focussed car, a track day special that had been civilized for road use. Just look what Mazda UK did, they added leather, sunroof, headlight washers etc... it didn\'t add value to a sports car, it added weight which was against the original design principles.
Richard
Richard, I think we should think carefully before modding:
Whats WRONG with the part.
Why did Mazda make it like that?
Why is my mod better? (am I SURE mines better?)
What other parts or problems will it effect?
Quote from: MartinyRichard, I think we should think carefully before modding:
Whats WRONG with the part.
Why did Mazda make it like that?
Why is my mod better? (am I SURE mines better?)
What other parts or problems will it effect?
Martin,
I could not have put it better.
I have got involved in what I could best describe as a domino effect on my car and others, where one change leads to another, to another etc....
Richard
I agree, compared to most mass market cars the FD was not very compromised, but as a "mass market" car is was still to some extent compromised. The body wasn\'t made of Kevlar/Carbon composites or Aluminium, the tips were carbon steel not the ceramics, etc. There are places where if budgets hadn\'t been an issue Mazda could have improved on the RX7. I take what you are saying though, do we really need to alter the basic design of the RX7 - a design which Mazda spent £millions developing?
I am sure we CAN improve it, although Mazda had £millions to develop it, they did have to make it a road car, and they have to consider whats cheap to manufacture, what safety tests must it pass, etc, etc.
But it seems to me, some mods are not a better idea than Mazda\'s -- Just look at the induction kits that take air from the engine bay. Mazda made a fresh air duct for the standard setup - I admit, it can still take in SOME warm air, but at least its not directly from the engine bay --
Suspension mods are seldom made in SYNERGY (look it up!).
What mass market car manufacturers have to have is reliability ( no sniggering at the back). Thats why they take their cars to deserts and fry them to see they still work, then they take them to cold Artic places and test them again to see that they still work in those conditions. Then the drive them over Belgian Pave ( cobbled roads) till bits fall off and then sort it out.
You don\'t get that with aftermarket mods. You are the development engineer. Just make sure your AA Relay is paid up !!
As a sweeping generalisation, standard cars are more reliable, though usually short on instrumentation.
Martin H
Standard \'97 FD RS
I tend to only change things if and when they wear out. (A down pipe for a turboII is best part of a grand - I got a complete stainles system for £250, what would you do?)
But a nice minty standard car will always be welcome and respected in my world :D
I adore the car\'s as standard, mine is not - some people just love to \'fettle\' :Giggle I agree that there are a few mods which loose the plot but that\'s down to what the individual who owns the car want\'s to do.
We have different technology in this day and age. For example turbo\'s have come on a long way since the FD was designed. There are some very capeable BB turbo\'s out there which can give the twins a run for their money (regarding spool and non sacrifice (sp) of top end power)
We can also install things like water injection which a normal punter who wants a good looking fast car may just forget to fill up (or doesn\'t even know it had one jobbie!) so things like that cannot even be thought about for a car with warranty. (im amazed they didnt loose more cars with people not knowing they needed to top oil!)