Ok people this is a long one so be patient.:Snoring
After final getting hold of a Apexi PFC and Commander I thought I would have a go at fitting it today and guess what, its wasn’t as easy as plug and play.:(
Got it all plumed in ok and when I turned the ignition to ON The commander screen came on with the Apexi logo and a constant ticking noise came from the engine bay from what I though it sounded like it was coming from under the plenum.:xconfused
I then tried starting the car and it seemed to tick over find but just wouldn’t start like there was no petrol getting to the engine. After that I replaced it with the standard one and all was fine again but when doing this I noticed that a few wires that lead into the ECU connectors had been cut.:2eek
This is what I found.
On the top connector - A pink wire which lead to a small red splitter box (I think it was a splitter box but couldn’t get it open) which had the pink wire following the rest of the loom and a black with red band wire with a male bullet connector on the end coming out the back of it.
Further down the connector was a black and red band wire just on it own.
On the bottom connector - A brown wire which lead to a small red splitter box (again I think it was a splitter box but couldn’t get it open) which had the brown wire following the rest of the loom and a black with red band wire with a female bullet connector on the end coming out the back of it.
I have now tried placing the bullet connectors together and even joining up all three of the black and red band wires and the rex does the same all the time, but put the standard one back on with all wires connected in the same combinations and all works fine.
I have also tried resetting the PFC by holding the brake when the battery is not connected and I cant reset it by the commander as it will not get past the apexi screen. I was told when I brought it that it had the base map on it.
I really don’t know what is going on so if anyone can explain the wiring and what it should be like as standard or if the commander should go past the apexi screen when just the ignition is on so that I can reset it that would be a great help.:confused:
Cheers for reading and I hope all makes sense and as i said any help would be great.:god :god :god
If you have a speedo converter to get MPH some of the wires to the ECU are cut.
I found when I first got my Apexi sometimes it wouldn\'t start, which I was told was a conflict with the alarm.
The apexi does have a base map on it, but it has to self-learn first of all.
If you want to reset it, you can do it by disconnecting the battery and the pressing the brake pedal for 30 seconds, then reconnecting the battery, I think.
It hasn\'t got a converter on it. will try the brake thing tomoz,
Has anyone got any pics of what the standard wires on the ecu connectors look like and does anyone know if the commander should pass the start up apexi logo even if the car will not start so you can get access to the menus.
you cant reset an apexi with the brake thing thats only on the original plus i think that only drains all the power out of any wiring on the car ? you have to use the commander and reset but you shouldnt have to start the car to do this
The thing is when i put the power on it it only gets to the apexi logo and it dosnt go to any menus no matter what buttons i press or even if i leave it for a bit.
Does this mean it isn\'t working properly. I have check all the serial numbers and they match the car.
apexi sounds broken mate or the commander at least, seen this once before.
apexi went bust a few times and are currently so they discontinued some stuff and carried on others however quality control went poop ie non existant so some come here and fry etc. some tuners have even stopped selling them eg reworx a perfect example is that when i was down at reworx a guy came in with a busted apexi he had got, commander was more the problem but no commander would work - car would run but no screen.
if i was you i would contact the seller.
You do realise you still have to have the car remapped to run the powerFC dude ??
It has a base map on it but you need to map the ECU for your particular car as each runs different mods and it cant self learn everything. The base map is for basic use ie getting it to the tuners not to run the car on altogether.
loads od poeple run base map and is fine mate, its richer than stock and if you dont boost more than stock and not even slightly higher to what the apexi is set at then you have no problems as it is like running stock ecu slightly richer.
you dont need a map to start it and that is this guys problem.
All i wanted to do was to check that it worked and then i was planning to get it map in a few weeks time, when i have the money lol.
I have check the codes on the Fc and all match the car but the only number i can find on the commander is FCC2 ZG 0004-0076. The car is a 1992 jap import.
Is there anyway then that i can reset the ecu manual with out the commander if the brake thing don\'t work.
Mad As Toast!!!
OK guys... an odd one. Just reading this thread has weirded me out.
I am having the EXACT same problem. Only difference is the history behind it.
Basically I own a UK spec RX7 on twin turbo\'s. Bought it standard a three months back, and a month after owning it spent loads on parts and labour to have it made more reliable as well as a bit more powerful.
Whole host of parts including an Apexi PFC and commander. All fitted by WGT\'s and then mapped up. Compressions at Pip\'s were all mid-8\'s, good strong engine and since getting it back from Pip it has been wonderful to drive. Shear pleasure with no hic-ups. Until lastnight.
Basically I was caught in the worst rain storm whilst driving back from Newcastle. Plodding along carefully. (Please note - under-tray is present on the car, but weather was bad and imagine that water could have made it up to the engine bay near to the leads, plugs, coils, etc). Roads and air really wet and went through a few puddles, but nothing major. Anyway, halfway home and going down this dark country lane when all of a sudden the rev counter dropped to zero, engine still running, stalling and then the engine cut a couple of seconds later. Rolled to a halt and pushed it into the next lay-by. **** wet through, no tools, I call the AA at 8:30pm.
Normally... upon turning ignition to "ON" the Apexi PFC loads up and the APEXI logo comes up on the commander temporarily and then the screen switches to the monitor mode. I then start the engine. Well after the car rolled to a halt lastnight. I do the same thing, only this time the APEXI logo comes on screen and remains on. Try to start, engine cranks, but no fire. Waiting on the AA, I keep trying it. Mostly no joy. Just before AA are due I turn ignition on, Apexi logo comes up and it successfully changes to monitor mode. Crank engine and it fires up. Let it idle for a while. Rev it. All fine. Go to pull off and it stalls. Attempt to restart and same thing happens, APEXI logo frozen on screen. After another hour and the AA being delayed. Decide to get to the Apexi PFC unit in the footwell. Get to it, jiggle the wires at the rear of the unit a bit and screen changes to monitor mode. Told girlfriend the crank it, it fires up, I remove my hand and it stalls, going back to the APEXI logo. After that and a bit more tinkering I decide to wait for the AA, by this time i\'m cold, tired and **** wet trough. Plus can\'t see due to no torch and on a dark country lane.
What I did notice when under the boonet is that the top of the battery was a tad wet (no battery cover) and when ignition was on and APEXI logo frozen - an intermittent "clicking" noise came from under the turbo elbow / inlet plenum - around the area where the leads, plugs and coils are located. Not sure where the injectors are located??? This noise stops with ignition off.
Anyway, long story short. A got there, sprayed WD40 everywhere in the hope that it removes any water present in the bay from the bad weather. Still no joy. He doddles off after requesting a recovery truck. They come much later, load me up and get under way. Return home at 3am this morning.
Just got up and now going out to check on her. Hopefully something was just wet or damp and has dried out over night, but doubt i\'m that lucky. Will try the keys from lastnight plus the master keys. She is fitted with an MAE CAT-1 alarm and immobilisor system, so will check my other chips for the immobilisor. I also have the standard ECU still, so will try that, but is this safe to do so with the following modifications? : -
ARC induction box
Greddy turbo elbow
Greddy dump valve
HKS ignition amplifier
Sard cooling thermostat
Koyo radiator
Pettit racing AST
Greddy pullies
Airpump unplugged but still present and belted up
Racing beat cat-back exhaust
HKS downpipe
WGT de-cat pipe
Greddy stock mount intercooler
Magnecor leads
Host of gauges and running 7\'s as leading and 9\'s as trailing (spark plugs)
Stock boost pressure, turbochargers, injectors and fuel pump - all mapped with the Apexi PFC and Commander by Pip at WGT\'s.
Would it be safe trying the stock ECU out with this set-up? If not for driving, would starting and idling be fine?
Just wondering if any of you guys could give a little feedback, advice or share a bit of knowledge on what this guy and myself are experiencing. I will update you guys later as to what I find when tinkering around with her today. Just a bit mad how all was perfect and then this happened out of the blue. HAS to be related to the poor weather. Other than that I had just filled up at a Total fuel station using their Excellium fuel. Wasn\'t thrashing it due to weather, taking it easy. Tad miffed by it all.
Quote from: dazpoynterThe thing is when i put the power on it it only gets to the apexi logo and it dosnt go to any menus no matter what buttons i press or even if i leave it for a bit.
Does this mean it isn\'t working properly. I have check all the serial numbers and they match the car.
I recently got an Apexi fitted and mapped and had the same issue with the Apexi logo remaining on screen. You have the wrong commander for your ecu. I contacted the seller who was super cool and sent out another which works perfectly. The logo comes on for a few seconds then it goes into monitor mode.
Tiger_kpt could water have got into your ecu? And i reckon you\'d be ok to put the stock one back in to see if the car starts.
Hi Frankie,
The wrong commander situation cannot be my problem as it has been working fine for months. I susepct anyway that if it was the wrong commander... even though the APEXI logo was on screen, the Apexi itself would still work and the car would start. Right???
No water couldn\'t have got onto the ECU or the connectors. In the footwell under the panels. It was bone dry when I inspected it lastnight. Water could have got onto the spark plugs, leads, maybe coils. And maybe sensors... but not sure if there are any located around the bottom half of the engine. Not sure of how wet things were down there due to the light. All I know is that it was VERY wet, puddles on road, wet mist and undertray still on the car. Only noticeable wet was on top of the battery around the terminals.
Tried starting it again today. Apexi logo still on solid. Won\'t start. Will try the standard ECU.
One question... if I was to unplug the Apexi... would the map that Pip at WGT\'s did for me be lost or erased?
Could this be ignition amp related?
Worst case scenario i\'m thinking that the Apexi PFC somehow shorted out. Is this possible? Or do they have safety features installed in them to prevent this kind of thing happening?
Ive been trying loads of stuff over the weekend to overcome this but no matter what i do with the apexi i just get the ticking nosie when the ignition is on, and it will not start.
As said i now think i have the wrong commander hence the freeze but like you say if the ECU had a base map the car should start.
My car is almost standard and as soon as i put the orginal ECU back on all is fine and she starts every time.
Keep me post if you find anythink Tiger-kpt
Quote from: Tiger_kptHi Frankie,
The wrong commander situation cannot be my problem as it has been working fine for months. I susepct anyway that if it was the wrong commander... even though the APEXI logo was on screen, the Apexi itself would still work and the car would start. Right???
One question... if I was to unplug the Apexi... would the map that Pip at WGT\'s did for me be lost or erased?
When i said it is the wrong commander that was to Dazpoynter as his has never got past the logo.
But answering your questions yes the car will still start and run fine with the commander screen frozen and the map stays in the ecu memory so it wont be lost if you unplug it.
Or with a commander unplugged and not present, the car should start if the ECU is in good condition and the correct one for the car. Right? The commander shouldn\'t afftect the running of the car I think.
Yeah that\'s what I thought. Cool.
OK. Well will unplug the Apexi and put the standard back on to help diagnose. If it works with that ECU, must be a fault on the Apexi. If it doesn\'t then must be something else, but god knows what.
I\'m thinking that my Apexi must have gone faulty somehow. And Dazpoynter must have bought one which had already gone faulty. Could be wrong. Will have a word with Pip too later on to ask his opinion.
What could the clicking be? Ignition coils? Injectors?
Hmmm. One thing to check I think could be fuses? Any idea as to which ones though?
Right. I\'m in the same boat. Checked all fuses. All seem fine.
Swapped the Apexi back over to the standard ECU leaving everything else as it was. Engine turns over and fires up fine. Ran a little rough down to the modifications to the setup, but ran. Left it on for a min and shut it off.
Reconnected the Apexi, engine turns over, but doesn\'t fire up. Just dead. And the Apexi logo on solid on the Commander screen.
So basically narrowed it down to the Apexi unit itself. Any ideas or advice? Bought the unit not long back for £400 with Commander and spent £300 on mapping it up at WGT. Only way I can think of going about this is getting hold of another Apexi and having that remapped? Or having the map transferred over? Is this possible?
From what has been said does it sound like the Apexi is at fault? Is it common or known for a PFC to go faulty in such a way? What causes it? Can I get it repaired?
Rang Pip. Told him the story so far and his exact words were: - "water on the brain".
And he was right. The Apexi PFC had taken in a little water. I had positioned it in the car with the PFC Commander socket at the top of the unit. Water drops had ingressed through this socket and down the circuit board and over a few chips.
He said that this is common and it isn\'t the end of the world in most cases. First time offenders are usually repairable. Simply take the PFC out of the car. Unscrew the panels and using a hairdryer, radiator and other means. Carefully clean up and dry the board. He has done this many times apparently and they have been fine afterwards.
I\'ve done this, looked a bit of a mess in there. Cleaned it up and dried it with a hairdryer and looks much better. Now sat open on the top of a radiator overnight. I will put it back together after work tomorrow and connect it back up. Hopefully that will sort it. Fingers crossed.
I suggest that the same has happened to your PFC mate whilst in the hands of yourself or the previous owner. Give this a whirl. Besides using the drying techniques I also used cotton buds gently to clean the board up from dired water and corrosion on pins. Be gentle and don\'t over do it on the hairdyer also. :Thumbs-up
Nice work, the only problem being just had a look at its insides and it seems really clean no sign of water or anything in there. It does look like some may have done this before as the screw heads looked a little warn.
Anyway will leave it open over night in case the is any moisture in there. Wish you all the best mate and let me know how it turns out.
Tiger_kpt could you also take a photo of what the insides of the ECU look like as i have a little white clip inside with 8 pins and was just wondering if anything should be in there. Its located next to where the commander and the other external device would go.
Cheers.
No mate. I have the same empty clip. Eight pins. Nothing there so that sounds OK on yours. I would highly suspect water damage. Have a good look at the pins on the chips for corrosion and any signs of dried water or muck.
I\'ll let you know how mine goes tomorrow night. Got fingers crossed. Next step will be to see if Pip can repair the unit. If not then buy another from somewhere and have Pip map it or transfer the map if possible.
Quote from: Tiger_kptRang Pip. Told him the story so far and his exact words were: - "water on the brain".
And he was right. The Apexi PFC had taken in a little water. I had positioned it in the car with the PFC Commander socket at the top of the unit. Water drops had ingressed through this socket and down the circuit board and over a few chips.
He said that this is common and it isn\'t the end of the world in most cases. First time offenders are usually repairable. Simply take the PFC out of the car. Unscrew the panels and using a hairdryer, radiator and other means. Carefully clean up and dry the board. He has done this many times apparently and they have been fine afterwards.
I\'ve done this, looked a bit of a mess in there. Cleaned it up and dried it with a hairdryer and looks much better. Now sat open on the top of a radiator overnight. I will put it back together after work tomorrow and connect it back up. Hopefully that will sort it. Fingers crossed.
I suggest that the same has happened to your PFC mate whilst in the hands of yourself or the previous owner. Give this a whirl. Besides using the drying techniques I also used cotton buds gently to clean the board up from dired water and corrosion on pins. Be gentle and don\'t over do it on the hairdyer also. :Thumbs-up
I\'m going to be upgrading to an Apexi soon. I\'ve read from other posts that the connector is normally mounted at the top. Does anyone know of a work around I can do so this can\'t happen?
Unless you want to extend the wiring loom then I would say that no there is no other way around it and that the Commander socket muct be positioned at the top of the unit. What i\'m going to do with either my current unit (if it functions after drying out) or the next unit... is to wrap it up in cling film and then bag it up with the Commander attached before positioning it back in the footwell to stop water from infiltrating the casing. The casing as a whole isn\'t very water tight, not just the commander socket.
Thats the same sort of thing im now thinking, was just wondering does anyone know how hot the ECU gets if it gets hot at all.
Think im sending my back now and might just buy a brand new one unless i can find one on here pretty soon.
Well dried mine out lastnight. Plugged it back in today and Bob\'s Your Uncle... it\'s back to its\' usual self. Think it has retained the map as well which was another worry which I had.
You tried drying yours out?
Quote from: dazpoynterThats the same sort of thing im now thinking, was just wondering does anyone know how hot the ECU gets if it gets hot at all.
Think im sending my back now and might just buy a brand new one unless i can find one on here pretty soon.
How about using silicone sealent on the main join and something the plug the socket? You wont get any heat issues/condensation then.