All you guys out there not wishing to go single turbo never fear :- Having spent the last 9 months in development I am the very proud owner of a standard seqential turbo with proven 385 FWBHP or 316RWHP, and it is all down to Carl Haywood building a superb extended street ported engine and mapped/tuned by Geff @ Reworx.
For you guys wanting the nitty -gritty, we spent this morning on CPL Racing\'s Dyno Dynamics rolling road [01795 668778] completing the top end mapping having completed 7 power runs we ended with 315.7RWHP and 255 ft. lbs @ 5500. The engine produced 280 RWHP @ 5500 peaked @7200 and maintained 310 to 8200, boost was set @ 14psi to 6k where it dropped to 13 through to 8200 water temp was a constant 85c throughout with inlet temp @ 26c AF was 10.5 /11.
What a wonderfull year for rotary\'s- to think this time last year the best PROVEN was 307rwhp [in the UK] and we are now looking at 500+..........as Geff said today, we are playing catch up with the rest of the world! Can\'t wait for Rotorstock - BRING IT ON!!!
Excellent stuff! I love to hear of high powered sequential turbos :) None of that lag nonsense :D
We may be behind the rest of the world at the moment, but we seem to be starting to catch up at last.
:god & hearty congratulations to you (http://www.smilies.okipages.com/s/otn/ez/ezpi_biglaugh.gif)
So for those who haven\'t heard the bits on FDUK what\'s the full list of mods...........................................?
Si
Very safe AFR\'s too. Lets hope she goes hard for a good few miles to come.
Stoked for u bud! The mobile FD b-b-q just got a bit more mobile!!
:rollin
List of mods:
One re-built Carl Hayward extended street port engine
Power FC
Down Pipe
De-cat
Tiger back box - with trick twin tail pipe
Skybus fuel pump [in tank]
1200 secondary injectors
FMIC
Re-located Rad and battery
Greddy elbow
Trick induction
Mapped by Reworx
few other bits and bobs
Rich - she\'s done 12k since the re-build and pulls like a train!!
On the rollers she fair near lept out of them!!
Could heve BBQed on the 1200mm gouts of flamarge on lift off!
12K since rebuild??
Blimey, you and Robbie competing to see who can get to rebuild again first? (thru normal wear as opposed to blowing up I mean!)
Congrats again John :D
Do you have a nice scanned graph we can see?
Rich, my car has hardly moved since getting back from Spa (for financial reasons) :( so I think John is actually ahead of me on the miles front (although I don\'t have my car at the moment so can\'t check). More miles and more power :eek: some people just have to show off ;) :p
Hi Robbie
Yes I seem to pile on the miles! - and that\'s not using it as a daily driver!!:D Taking into account we did the trip to Spa / Nburg, we also did Le Mans as well as TOTB 11 they account for 4k + all the trips to Geffs:cool soon adds up.
I know RR figures are not the be-all but it is what everyone uses as a comparison. The Dyno Dynamics is not a mickey mouse setup [£35k +] and by using the same equipment it is a fair way to establish progress - this time last year using the same equipment with the SAME values my RWHP has increased by 71hp.
Geff did a RR tune before Christmas with a similar engine as mine but without FMIC and few other bits and bobs and achieved 297 so I feel that it is a realistic figure.
If someone can tell me how to post it I can take photo of the graph [no scanner :( ]
I was just winding you up about the rollers John, I have heard rumours the one we are using on Saturday is a Dynamics setup - so hopefully I\'ll have a decent comparison figure soon :D This time last year I had 0 bhp, so anything for me is an improvement :cool
I hate to think what we could do on the mileage front if we did use our cars as daily drivers :eek: If it didn\'t guzzle petrol 25-30k would be easily attainable :)
Mail me the photo ( robertio@fduk.org ) and I\'ll sort it out and put it up :)
Well folks hope this works below are the graphs from my last visit with Geff and one from the rolling road day last year as a comparison
Johns graphs:
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robertio/graph003.jpg)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robertio/graph002.jpg)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robertio/graph001.jpg)
My rolling road graph is from the same place. Is this RWHP then as I always assumed I just had a calculated figure.
If this is RWHP then I have loads more than expected.
Lee
Following unforseen problems with the intercooler (ie it didn\'t fit) todays run on the rollers was more to get a comparison between them and the ones I normally use.
Most impressed with the setup Dastek had, they use their own rollers (Dastek Dynamometers) which seemed to give sensible figures. Their cooling setup was much better than Star, it was positively cold standing in front of the fans. Will definitely be going back - once I get the intercooler and boost controller on so I can sort out the top and bottom ends of my map.
First run was exactly the same as I had run at Star and got 282fly, 214rwhp, air temps were a good chunk lower which ties in with the 303.6fly bhp it recorded. The approx 250rwhp (memory is going) made much more sense than the Star figure. Being the nice chap that he is Gerry let me have 4 runs (we got invited along for a very cheap day as he is a member of the car club).
The second run I put the primary up from 0.8 to 0.85 bar (the highest figure was 305bhp, so I wanted to beat that first) and power went up to 310.2bhp.
The third run I put the secondary up from 0.7 to 0.85 bar and it made almost no difference to the power figure. From the graph it looks like the secondary hit 0.85 (there was a large increase in power and torque from 5.5-6.5k) before falling back to 0.7. Peak power went to 311bhp.
The forth run I cut down the split between leading and trailing from 12 to 11 (I\'m still on the stock intercooler so boost was really already beyond what I should have been going for) which gave minimal peak bhp increase (312.2 now, 260rwhp) but made a chunk more power around 6k rpm (almost 20bhp) and had some improvement from there on to 8.1k where we were stopping the runs.
It was good to be able to see the actual difference to the power & torque curves as I made changes (rather than thinking on the road that one seemed better). Both the top and bottom ends of my fueling are well out - 10.6:1 anyone? but between 3 and 6.5k it was holding a solid 11:1. Will hopefully get the wideband in the downpipe soon and sort that out.
So at the moment fueling it a little dodgy in bits, and boost control from the PFC is woeful. Once the intercooler goes on (however we manage that) with the boost controller and wideband I can\'t see me not getting at least 300rwhp out of it :)
Only downside to the place was the print outs which are poor compared to what I\'m used to, but as they have just opened up I\'m sure they can improve on this and if required I\'ll offer to help them out as the data is all being recorded, just not provided to the customer.
BTW, got beaten by a GTi-R pulsar, inconveniently the same one that beat me on the 1/4 last summer - glad the owner is getting rid of it :D
I\'m glad you ended up having a semi productive day Robbie. Any idea\'s why you seem unable to get more secondary boost?
Regards
Max
Right after looking over my graphs compared to the ones above, it looks like I have RWHP as my main line, with the estimated power just plotted above using an identical line.
Seems to make sense, so I have approx 270 rwhp then.
Lee
QuoteOriginally posted by maximtaylor
I\'m glad you ended up having a semi productive day Robbie. Any idea\'s why you seem unable to get more secondary boost?
Regards
Max
No real idea at the moment :( looking back at the logs boost drops off and knock values go strange, it doesn\'t get to 20 during the rest of the run then- 26,47,23,21,19,17,25,75,26,18,18,75,43,15 - you get the idea. Could it be ignition break up (logs show ignition is correct though) combined with the PFCs unique version of boost control?
It is around this point that the air temp reaches 60 degrees for the first time (high twenties at the start of the run), could be pulling boost back because of temperature?
Water temp stays at a constant 83 through the run, but does creep up afterwards.
Is at the same point as oil temp gets over 90 degrees? (again temp issue?)
Injectors once touch 88%, but that is the highest they get, so nothing wrong there.
The ever useful wastegate % column seems normal - 150-200% gradually increase when on secondary (sits at 243 when on the primary).
Unless anyone has any other ideas I\'ll go along with the fitting the other bits and seeing if that fixes the holding of secondary boost (which seems fine when set to 0.7) issue.
mmmm....
Put the front mount on and see how it goes. The turbo should be good for more boost, as shown by Johns logs.
Are you changing your wastegate duty cycles when you are upping the boost?
Out of interest, what numbers are you running on this screen?
Regards
Max
Hi Robbie,
Have a play with your wastegate duty cyles as Max said.I think that is where your problem is.
You should be able to run 1 bar with the stock injectors and right map.Then you will see some real power.
Kind regards
Carl
Thanks both :)
I didn\'t do much with the wastegate duty when I put the boost up, small change - IIRC to 44 and 54, but I\'ll have to nip out and read the map off the car before I can confirm - and it\'s raining at the moment so I\'m staying where it\'s dry. I think the rest of the values on this screen are still from the map you gave me Max (that I have beeen gradually destroying ;) )
I should have the profec on soon, and will have to set it up to do the boost control anyway.
Ultimately I couldn\'t spend much time on it as there were 20 of us having runs, about another 20 watching and I probably spent the most time on the rollers as it was :o Not helped by the operator enjoying blipping the throttle at low revs to get lots of pops and bangs :rollin
Hi Robbie,
It is not good to run too rich with popping and banging in the exhaust,it will destroy the packing.
10.6A/F is way too rich outside of boost and also as the boost decreases top end it is too rich.
Kind regards
Carl
What A/F\'s ARE you going to shoot for Robbie?
Feeling a bit more positive today hopefully :)
When we set it up a few weeks back (wideband stuck on the end of the backbox) on the road we had set it for 11:1 to 6k then leaning it out to 11.5:1 as it headed for the red line. It just seems to be whatever is affecting the boost was also stuffing up the top end AFRs (could have done with watching them on the first run to see if they were better with the original boost settings, but I was too busy keeping an eye on temps).
Haven\'t been able to sort out the low end values - my wideband hasn\'t gone on yet due to the extra time spent fighting with the intercooler - we spent our time trying to get the cruise and boost values confirmed as OK when I had Marcs wideband on the car. Once I get the wideband on the bottom end will be sorted out as it has been driving me bonkers - as long as it is above 2.5 it is fine, but before that on a light throttle it is too rich (had taken a guess and removed a little which helped, so it (mostly) only does it with cold ambients now).
Carl, have to confess I never noticed the AFRs at the bottom end off-boost, the 10:6 was what it dropped to top end at 8.1k having started to tail off around 7k.
As a side note the exhaust was classified as at least as noisy as a 200SX with 3" all the way exhaust (which along with the GTi-R was the loudest there). I\'m going to have to put a sticker on the back of the car saying \'This is the quiet exhaust, so stop asking me when it is going on\' ;)
Rich, a bit, guess that\'s what a bit of friendly rivalry over bhp figures does ;)
Having checked the secondary wastegate % was still 56, so have hacked that back to 52, wont be able to find out for a while if it has had the desired effect. Thanks all :)