Mazda Rotary Club

Well here is the introduction to my LS1 5.7L V8 into my FD progress thread. Taaadaaaa!

I’ll start by first explaining that I will not be discussing the whys and wherefores of why I’m doing this conversion other than it’s my car and I want to:rolleyes: , anyhow I’m sure you can find that sort of information else where if you have a mind to. Also I would appreciate it if anyone posting on this thread could resist discussing their beliefs with regards the rights and wrongs of the conversion.
Now that’s out of the way I’ll confide in you that I’m not an engineer or fabricator by any stretch of the imagination (so it could all end in tears :eek: ) but I have built (assembled) the odd kit car, although many years ago, and I know one end of a torque wrench from the other.
The reason I’m doing this thread is two fold, one as it may be of interest to others and two I’m sure I’m going to need some advice/questions answered along the way, and who better to answer them than you guys?:Thumbsup!

As I’ve already mentioned, as I’m not and engineer or fabricator I’ve decided to go the general route that most do in the US and buy in most of the required parts for me to assemble. Going this route should make the conversion easier, as I’m not reinventing the wheel and there will be support should I run into problems as there are a couple of dedicated forums with friendly guys who have been there done that in the US. Although it has been suggested by them that my steering wheel is on the wrong side! :2Confused

Following some research on these forums and reading previous swap threads it seemed the ideal FD to start with was an auto. This is because they tend to be cheaper to start with, generally not had such a hard life, and they have the more suitable rear axel ratio of 3.9:1

Following many months of searching I finally came across the ideal base car, a 1994 type x auto with a suspected blown engine.

Now that I had the car I had some choices to make i.e. which of the 2 or 3 main suppliers of kit would I go with. I must admit each of them seem to have had bad press at some stage or another, but following some research I’ve opted for Hinson super cars as they were arguably the pioneers of the conversion and have the most complete kit for the swap. Although saying this, if you shop around costs can be significantly saved by obtaining some of the other needed parts else where, i.e. cooling, fuel system etc. In the following posts I will describe all the parts that are needed and where I have opted to get them from, either as they arrive or are fitted.

So stay tuned for the next thrilling episode of FD meets the LS1 monster:driving .

Look forward to reading about your progress :Thumbs-up

I ve been dieing waiting for a complete documented project in the UK. Good luck.

Neil

Unfortunately there hasn’t been much progress since my last post as I’m waiting for parts to turn up:Snoring . I have a modded rear subframe already here from Canada (more about that latter), my engine/box is on a boat somewhere between the US and here:2Confused , the parts I ordered from Hinson’s were shipped in 3 packages, 1 has arrived which is the front subframe, and the other 2 are at the moment lost in Memphis:Hammer . Also, even when I do receive all these I’m waiting for a complete set of poly suspension bushes which I thought I might as well change as all the suspension will be coming off.

The rotary engine is out along with it’s ecu and engine harness I wont go into the how to of that as It’s been covered many times before.
So I’ll give you a quick rundown of what is needed parts wise to complete the conversion (or at least the most common parts options) and then the options I will be using.

1)   A LS1/LS2 V8 engine and T56 6 speed gearbox
2)   A mounting kit which gives you a modded front subframe, torque arm (replaces the Mazda ppf) and a gearbox mount.
3)   New track rod ends (to restore bump-steer geometry as the steering rack is moved)
4)   A modified prop-shaft


Along with these basic parts, to actually get the car up and running you will also need a solution for the following.
5)   Air intake
6)   Fuelling
7)   Cooling
8)   Engine management
9)   Exhaust
10)   Power steering
11)   Air-conditioning
12)   Battery relocation from the engine compartment
13)   Alternative clutch master cylinder.

The options I decided to go for are.
1)   A 5.7 litre LS1 pullout from a 2004 Pontiac GTO (approx 350bhp and 350 lb-ft torque) This has been bought from Cleveland–Pic-A-Part who is one of the biggest and most respected suppliers of used LS1’s in the US. As it was from a GTO I needed a different sump with the deepest part at the back (found on “F” body V8’s IE Camaro/Firebird) rather than the GTO’s being at the front. This is to ensure that it clears the new front subframe. Cleveland kindly made the sump swap on my behalf before shipping the engine. Just to give you a quick description of a “pullout” for those that don’t already know, It’s the term used in the US for a complete engine/gearbox package and all of its associated accessories and sensors to enable it to be just slotted in another car and turn the key.

2)   The mounting kit I have gone for is mostly from one supplier which as mentioned already is Hinson Super Cars. The only difference being is that I have decided not to go for his torque arm solution for supporting the nose of the differential but go for a modded rear subframe arrangement. There have been various solutions from different people on how to achieve the best method of supporting the diff and from my research each of them have had its supporters and critics. It seems a lot depends on the use of the car following conversion and the amount of torque that the diff is subjected to as to the success of each method. I would say that the torque arm arrangement is the most widely used and probably the cheapest/easiest to employ but I like to be different;) .

3)   Bump-steer correction kit supplied by Hinson’s
4)   Steel Prop-shaft supplied by Hinson’s (aluminium and carbon options)
5)   Air intake as yet undecided, but how hard can it be?
6)   Fuelling will be by an up rated in tank fuel pump fed direct from the battery via a new relay
7)   Cooling will be via a Corvette radiator and a Volvo fan
8)   I’m going to use the original GTO ECU which has already been sent for a basic custom tune flashed into it to remove various alarms/security features and give a basic/safe tune for my engine install.

Sounds very interesting mate,

Saw a GTO on the show Overhaulin the other day, that engine will sound sweet :D

had you planned to fully weld some of the Hinson parts ? I\'d seen a number of tales of them failing and it\'s better to be safe than sorry?

Looking like a very interesting thread. Just out of interest what happened to the FD engine ??

Shaun

Quote from: gsb876Sounds very interesting mate,

Saw a GTO on the show Overhaulin the other day, that engine will sound sweet :D

Some seem to have a nice rich burble while others are pure NASCAR, a lot depends on the exhaust so I’ll just have to wait and see

Quote from: MikeLMRhad you planned to fully weld some of the Hinson parts ? I\'d seen a number of tales of them failing and it\'s better to be safe than sorry?

I’ve had a good look over all the welds and they look very good but unfortunately that won’t let me know if they are or not. According to Mr Hinson the problem was with a new supplier and there should be no further issues. RE fully welding the parts, they are already fully welded. I can’t go over what’s already done as the ones I do could be worse and some are on the inside of boxed sections. I will be keeping an eye on everything once it’s completed just to be on the safe side, as I’m sure anyone would do following any sort of modification that increases the engine power and torque to this degree. As I’m sure you are aware once you step away from a standard spec there is no certain method of making sure everything will hold up otherwise there would be no ppf failures/diff breakages or transmission tunnel brace mount failures on high power rotary fd’s :o

Quote from: shaunwilLooking like a very interesting thread. Just out of interest what happened to the FD engine ??

Shaun

I sold the engine quite a few weeks ago to get another fd on the road.

ah well ! looking for a 13b for the 1st gen !

Did you look at granny speed as well for the parts or is hinson cheaper ??

Love the rear axle assembly, would be fab on any high powered FD :D

Shaun

Quote from: shaunwilDid you look at granny speed as well for the parts or is hinson cheaper ??

Love the rear axle assembly, would be fab on any high powered FD :D

Shaun

I did look at all 3 places to get the parts, Hinson\'s, Granny\'s and Dynotested but Hinsons had the most complete set of parts and he has completed a RHD turn key customer car so I went with the option that I thought would give me the easiest build. This is his first RHD with a LS2,

Couple more details to finish off my options are,
9)   The exhaust is going to be supplied by Hinson’s and consists of stainless steel 3 inch tubular manifolds to a Y pipe exiting at 3.5 inch to a rear box (no cats).
10)   Power steering will be retained using the Mazda rack but using the LS1 pump with a modification to the relief spring to give the desired pressure and a couple of new hoses made up.  
11)    Air con will be retained mainly with the use of the original Mazda components but with the LS1 pump.
12)   Battery will be relocated to one of the rear bins.
13)   A new Clutch master cylinder is coming from Hinson’s along with the necessary fittings etc.      


With any luck more to come soon. Oh any questions you might have I’ll be happy to have a go at answering them here.

Good luck to you I will be doing the same as soo as I find a good RX-7 as a shell. I will be using an LS2 out of a 06 GTO and thanks for reminding me on the sump. Would have totally forgot sourcing that one and then standing there dumb like nothing when it doesnt fit.

Sorry for hijack
got a shell here
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Black_RX7_shell.html
Interesting thread

Quote from: D3xt3rGood luck to you I will be doing the same as soo as I find a good RX-7 as a shell. I will be using an LS2 out of a 06 GTO and thanks for reminding me on the sump. Would have totally forgot sourcing that one and then standing there dumb like nothing when it doesnt fit.

Also the windage tray, dipstick tube and dipstick :Thumbs-up

What was the cost of the engine Sparticus and if you want more power what would be the next step, engine wise?

skys the limit dragon..i think hinsons have turboed the ls1 or conventional pistons/cams etc.the only limit is traction and the rear diff

Quote from: DRAGONWhat was the cost of the engine Sparticus and if you want more power what would be the next step, engine wise?

You could always go for a LS2 to start with @400bhp and around 400lb-ft torque or spend the money on some heads and a cam for similar results. The lsx range of engines have lots of potential for tuning with hundreds of companies selling all that you could ever hope for. My engine/box + extras package was $5000 to give you an idea. Here is a short vid of one of Hinsons cars dyno runs with a LS6 and some figures.
 http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/HSC_DynoPullSmall.wmv

oh,  now i see why you are going for a v8  ;)

Quote from: antnicukoh,  now i see why you are going for a v8  ;)

LOL you do?:2Confused Me? I\'m innocent.........ish

who cares about the power V8s sound the dogs danglies

what sort of budget have you set aside for this project phil? Assuming you complete it yourself and you get stung on duties for everything you order?

Good question:rolleyes: , however I don’t really have a strict budget as such but I have estimated that the engine/box/ecu/engine harness etc  package will cost £3500 landed, All the mounting parts plus full stainless exhaust, new master cylinder, new clutch line, poly engine and transmission mounts +bits and bobs from Hinson’s £2950 landed.
Then around £200 for a rad and fan, £100 for intake, £200 for fuel supply, £150 for battery relocation, £80 for basic ecu mapping, £200 for adapting the power steering hoses and air-con hoses.

This is roughly the main costs for a LS1 V8 conversion using the more popular torque arm setup and using ready made bolt on extras. But, and it’s a big but you can adjust these costs up or down depending on how much you either want to find or make yourself or if you want extras like carbon propshaft etc. Mine will be a bit more due to opting for the different rear diff mounting (which I might add Antnicuk and his hero cousin:god who was like watching Luke Skywalker with a light sabre, apart from he used an angle grinder, have helped out with greatly today:Thumbs-up ).

Hows the conversion going Spartacus ?

Bulla

Update and more pics coming soon (ish):Thumbs-up

Just as a quick comment on the cost of the conversion, the prices that I have already mentioned are obviously offset with the sale of all the rotary parts you will no longer require IE engine, gearbox, ppf, prop shaft, all the inlet and exhaust systems, cooling etc etc.

The good news is that now most of my parts have turned up, the exhaust manifolds and prop shaft had a nice month holiday in Memphis before being found and sent on, and the engine/gearbox came in what only can be described as a small wooden house.

While I have been waiting for the parts I’ve been doing some prep work for the conversion, taking out the now unused engine bay wiring, removing a couple of now unused tabs on the inside of the frame rails, taking out the aircon rad and pipe work (to be replaced following engine install) to give more room to fit the engine.

The other necessity is to weld around the front transmission tunnel brace mounts, as these will become a gearbox mount for the 6 speed T56 as Mazda only have around 6 to 8 small spot welds holding them onto the underside of the car. You don’t need to strip the inside of the car out to do this, just lift the carpet from the sill area and get a couple of bricks pushed under the carpet and above the area to be welded. I must admit I did have one of those garden sprayer things full of water just in case.

Now one thing tends to lead to another when you start any type of work on these cars whether it’s a conversion or just general improvements. With that in mind and as I will need to remove the front and rear sub frames anyway I decided to replace each and every suspension bush. And while I had the suspension apart it made sense to bead blast all of the components.

Here are a few pics of what’s been going on.

Next instalment soon.

looking good, more pics of the new engine and gearbox please

Hi Spartacus
Could you tell me what customs charged you for the engine/box etc and if there were any other hidden costs after shipping fees.
Also the same for the parts from Hinsons.
Many thanks
craig

The total charges for shipping the engine/box door to door were £1130 If you pick it up at the dock you can save £130ish. All of Hinson\'s parts cost £310 to ship but that doesn\'t include tax\'s etc, as they are smaller items in 3 packages which were lost for a while you take your chances with the charges.:rolleyes:

Hi again Spartacus
Many thanks for that.
Is it possible you could break that down for me into shipping, duty, vat etc .
If so please could you email the breakdown to me at
craig.richards4@btinternet.com (craig.richards4@btinternet.com)
Many thanks in advance.
Craig

Here are a couple of pics of the engine and gearbox, 1 showing the "F"body type rear sump that\'s needed to clear the subframe.
This is what it could sound like (I hope) http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d64c53e8-0e63-45e4-a122-996101360a6d.htm

ooooohhhhhhh im soooo jelous....   i will have to pop up and have a nose round

i have an engine hoist that should lift that puppy in if you need,  just let me know i can bring it up.  its an extra long one, it lifted the tripple and its gearbox in to the fd with all the manifolds and turbo attached.

Looking good mate:2eek :D

Quote from: SpartacusHere are a couple of pics of the engine and gearbox, 1 showing the "F"body type rear sump that\'s needed to clear the subframe.
This is what it could sound like (I hope) http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d64c53e8-0e63-45e4-a122-996101360a6d.htm

uugggh...reaches for box of tissues

Quote from: antnicuki have an engine hoist that should lift that puppy in if you need,  just let me know i can bring it up.  its an extra long one, it lifted the tripple and its gearbox in to the fd with all the manifolds and turbo attached.

Thanks for the offer but I\'m going to try and slide it in from underneath on the new front subframe.
As the rad and aircon gear has been removed I shouldn’t have to get the front of the car up too high (easy to say eh?)
Come up any time, your more than welcome.

Anyone trying this at home, make sure you don’t just have a single garage and even worse a cobbled driveway. It’s no fun pushing a car about without subframes.:o

i like that, only problem is that my drive way has an slight decline, if i turned my back the car would be rolling down the road

Funny enough so has mine, it\'s ok getting it out of the garage but a bit of a pain getting it back in.

Looking good there,keep pics coming.
Regards
Carl

Looks great, again very jealous, post as many photo\'s as possible :)

Here is a pic showing the extra bracing and diff nose mounts that’s been added to the rear subframe, along with one of the diff all bolted up. If you were going with a “normal” US conversion you wouldn’t have this, but you would get a torque arm to replace the Mazda PPF between the diff and the gearbox.

that is some serious strenghtening to the rear subframe,  did you have that done here? or did the whole thing come from the states?

I had it done by a guy in Canada who was doing a small group buy of his design to mount the diff, which apparently should stop any axel tramp so the diff has a fighting chance of surviving.

There is a thread somewhere where another ls1 owner strapped a web cam under his car looking at the rear subframe during some hard launches and you would not believe the amount of flexing going on.

Quote from: SpartacusI had it done by a guy in Canada who was doing a small group buy of his design to mount the diff, which apparently should stop any axel tramp so the diff has a fighting chance of surviving.

There is a thread somewhere where another ls1 owner strapped a web cam under his car looking at the rear subframe during some hard launches and you would not believe the amount of flexing going on.

I would be very interested to see that vid!

Good work by the way.

how much of the flex is due to the frame being loaded in a way that it was not designed to be (sans power plant frame) and how much was down to the increase in torque? You have to remember the FD was engineered to be light and what you end up with is a structure that will flex if you take it much beyond what it was designed for :)

I like the tube work on your new frame, it\'s very neat, how does the clamp on the nose of the diff work? I guess it looks like that because the PPF bolted to just one side.

its not all the diff that causes axle tramp,ive been running mine mounted into the rear suspension for 2 years now with no probs, they do still tramp a bit but i dont know any cars that dont.keep up the good work !!

axle tramp is to do with suspension geometry most of the time, most multi link setups are quite poor apparently. I\'ve not really looked into it but I remember skimming through a section on it on a book about chassis design.

Quote from: stylus350I would be very interested to see that vid!

Good work by the way.

Here is the link to the thread (http://www.v8rx7forum.com/v8-rx7-technical/41391-psa-serious-concerns-about-safety-jimlab-cobra-cradle-4.html), but after coming back to it since I read it originally I now realize it wasn’t about the Mazda subframe but a custom made cradle to mount a cobra diff in a FD. There was the suggestion to try the same filming on a standard Mazda backend and on a Torque arm equipped FD but by the look of things it never happened.

Quote from: MikeLMRhow much of the flex is due to the frame being loaded in a way that it was not designed to be (sans power plant frame) and how much was down to the increase in torque? You have to remember the FD was engineered to be light and what you end up with is a structure that will flex if you take it much beyond what it was designed for :)

I like the tube work on your new frame, it\'s very neat, how does the clamp on the nose of the diff work? I guess it looks like that because the PPF bolted to just one side.

I completely agree with your first comment, but I’m not sure that you would want to design out all of the flex anyhow, as isn’t it a good way of absorbing energy over an a relatively long period to be released slowly rather than a short sharp shock which may break components? It would also be interesting to see how much flex there is on the backend of a standard FD.


This arrangement keeps the original diff mounts at the rear and replaces the Mazda  ppf at the nose of the diff to support and attempt to limit any twisting of the diff. The diff only has a significant mounting on one side where the ppf was attached so this arrangement is meant to use those points in the main but attempt to spread some of the load across the flat of the diff nose by using the clamped plates underneath.
Time will tell as to how effective it is.

Quote from: tinker-27its not all the diff that causes axle tramp,ive been running mine mounted into the rear suspension for 2 years now with no probs, they do still tramp a bit but i dont know any cars that dont.keep up the good work !!

I don\'t think that the diff causes the tramp but it certainly seems that tramp is the cause of many diff breakages, so anything that limits the tramp must help prolong the life expectancy of the diff.

Have you bought the Hinson RHD exhaust headers, if you have can you post a picture.

Yes I bought the whole exhaust system from Hinson\'s (still waiting for the back box:Yawn) , not cheap but it is stainless steal and saves a lot of trouble trying to get one made without a pattern.

Couldn\'t resist it, as I\'ve just taken voluntary redundancy after 26 years in the same business, a little treat for the old girl (the car that is).

Having just cut & welded my headers from a box of bends, those look sweet
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/mar71n/IMG_0614.jpg)

If I could have done what you have, I probably would have and saved enough for an ls2:Thumbs-up

Whats the reason for the inward kink at the lower end of the nearside header??

If you mean here, I have no idea but I have just loosely assembled the Y pipe the way it looked liked it wanted to be put together just for the picture. It may be completely different when I come to put it on the car.

Have you thought about getting a few exhaust sets made up over here, based on the Hinson ones? might be able to flog em and get back some costs.

I had a dream last night, that I had ordered some bits from Hinson and that I was on the phone to him asking about the intake system....then I woke up...nooooo

A quick update on progress today. As I have said before this is turning more into a major overhaul project rather than a simple engine conversion, mainly as it\'s just too good an opportunity to miss when parts of the car are so much more accessible at the moment. I’ll include all I’m doing although a lot of it isn’t necessary for the V8 conversion. Today was spent undersealing the back of the car while the rear subframe is off. Little tip to anyone else doing this, start from the middle of the car and work out. Then you might just end up with more underseal on the car than on your head, trust me I know!
The good news is that I received a package from the US which has a few bits I\'ve been waiting for which includes a Corvette fuel filter/fuel pressure regulator which also includes a return line output to the tank. It will go in the same place as the Mazda filter and it\'s even the same size so you can use the same mounting bracket, easy eh. I also received and changed the fuel pump for a Supra TT pump which should take care of all the fuel needs of the LS1.
Unfortunately my local motor factors only had 4 fuel hose clamps so I couldn’t finish the filter/fpr install but all the lines are made and ready to fit.

This thread has made an interesting read - look forward to see (and hear!!) this baby!   I remember a while ago some guy posting up a vid of a V8 RX, it sound sublime!

The quick update for today is a bit more relevant to the actual V8 conversion:cheers . The ls1 has a water temp sender on the left hand cylinder head but that is for the ecu rather than for the gauge, but as luck would have it there is another point on the right hand head that can be used for a second sender. Basically you have 2 options, the first is to install (via an adapter) the Mazda temp sender and use your existing gauge or the second option is to install an aftermarket sender and change the gauge. As the 2nd option gets rid of the non linier Mazda gauge and sounds so much more fun (not) that’s the way I have gone. The sender and adapter was easy enough to fit but I\'ll leave the gauge install for a latter instalment (got out of that one eh?:Giggle )

I also changed the thermostat from the factory 195 deg (I think) one which is very easy to do as it doesn’t even have a gasket, just a nice rubber O ring on the new thermostat. There is a lot of conjecture over what thermostat is best for the ls1 in the US. Some say that the engine was designed to run hot and others say that the reason that it runs hot is just for emissions reasons, and that more power is available if it runs a bit cooler. Until recently 160deg was the preferred option but there is now a 180 deg option which is what I have gone for (sitting on the fence here;) ). More to come soon.:wave

I\'ve seen people install the defi gauges in the stock cluster. Either a howto on here or on rx7club. The non-linear one is naff !

Shaun

Quote from: shaunwilI\'ve seen people install the defi gauges in the stock cluster. Either a howto on here or on rx7club. The non-linear one is naff !

Shaun

I will be doing something very similar, I\'ll put an after market water temp gauge and oil pressure gauge in the stock positions in the cluster and use the stock fronts and needles so no one will ever know, na ha ha :evillaugh (then pray it works) When I get a chance to finish it I\'ll add it to this thread.

Here\'s a quick taster

Today’s (ok an hour or two) progress was to take off the original GTO type engine mounts which can be seen in the 1st pic and swap them with F body types which are required when you use the Hinson Subframe. As well as changing to the F body type I took the opportunity to change to a polyurethane mount rather than the standard rubber to limit engine movement. To do this you need to drill out the rivets that hold the 2 halves of the mount together, split the mount, remove the bonded in rubber portion and replace them with the poly ones. Then just bolt the 2 halves back together and bolt to the block.

Quote from: SpartacusIf you mean here, I have no idea but I have just loosely assembled the Y pipe the way it looked liked it wanted to be put together just for the picture. It may be completely different when I come to put it on the car.

The header must be bent for a left hand drive car\'s steering,you might need to swap some bits about and cut and shut the exhaust for right hand drive.
Keep up the good work.
Regards
Carl

Quote from: CarlThe header must be bent for a left hand drive car\'s steering,you might need to swap some bits about and cut and shut the exhaust for right hand drive.
Keep up the good work.
Regards
Carl

From what I\'ve been told by Brian (Mr Hinson) they have made a custom right hand exhaust manifold to fit on a rhd installation. I would think that I have their standard left hand manifold designed as you say to fit around the left hand drives steering column. Time will tell as to how good the fit is :2Rolleyes

Today’s task was to change over a hydraulic fitting on the clutch slave cylinder, as the clutch line sent by Hinson’s had a quick connect fitting that you would find on a F body type slave and I have a GTO type. My GTO type slave is exactly the same apart from it has a short length of hard line coming out of the bell housing and terminating on a much smaller quick connect fitting.

A hero in the US:god  who has been collecting and sending over all those hard to get fuel line fittings etc on my behalf luckily had an old F body slave cylinder laying around so he sent that over so I could cannibalise it and use the fitting from it.
The first pic shows a GTO type fitting with the hard line and in case you’re wondering the fitting above it is the bleed. The second pic is the clutch line I need to attach to the slave, the third is of my slave and the f body one so you can see the difference and the forth is the fitting swapped onto my slave cylinder. As with most things so far it was very easy to do, just needing the small retaining pin punched out, carefully removing the fitting to make sure it comes out with the rubber O ring intact and just replace with the other fitting and tapping back in the pin. I must say everything so far has been really simple (it must be if I can do it:Thumbsup! ). Saying that, I will be connecting up the master cylinder and checking it all works before the gearbox goes back onto the engine just in case

As promised a post on how to modify the stock cluster to use aftermarket oil pressure and water temperature gauges.
I can’t take the credit for coming up with the mod as I came across it on another site, but it may be useful to those either doing this conversion or anyone just wanting more effective oil and water gauges.
The gauges I used for the swap are from the US but I’ve been assured that most 52mm gauges with the same sweep as the Mazda ones would work just as well.

First off, take the factory gauge cluster apart so you can get to the individual gauges. Take out the factory temp and oil gauge by first carefully (as you will reuse these) pulling off the needles then the gauge faces. Behind the cluster you will see 3 small screws behind the gauges that hold the gauge body to the cluster. Undo these and the gauge will come away.
Next take apart your new gauges, both gauges once taken apart look IDENTICAL, so make sure and label (or remember) which is which. Below is the oil gauge disassembled:
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/clip_image001.jpg)
Now here’s the interesting bit, your newly stripped gauge has more than likely got the exact 3 bolt pattern as your old Mazda units the only difference being that the electrical connections will be different. So you just place them into the cluster (in the right positions)
Here is the water temp gauge installed.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/clip_image002.jpg)
And here with the new oil pressure gauge in its factory location, again using the stock 3 holes,
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/clip_image003.jpg)
And lastly a closer look with both new gauges installed.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/clip_image004.jpg)
Next, put the factory water/oil faces over the new gauges, and put the factory gauge needles on your new gauges to line up where they originally were. You will notice that there is no way of mounting the stock faces down since the holes on the gauge don\'t align with the stock face plate, don\'t worry. You won\'t need to secure it because when you re-assemble your cluster, the black face plate (that surrounds the cluster) has dowels that will hold it in place, it’s hard to explain, but it works out great.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/clip_image005.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/clip_image006.jpg)
Now you can reassemble the front of your cluster and with any luck it will look something like this.(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/clip_image007.jpg)
Now for wiring.
Firstly you need to carefully lift the green flexible circuit board away front the back of your new gauges and insulate with a few layers of tape where the bolts would go through and would touch. I also used some masking tape just to hold the circuit board away whilst I did the wiring. I decided to use the pos/neg slots that the fuel gauge uses, reason being, it was close by.

You need to take note of what pegs on the new gauges are POS, NEG, and for the SENDER. If you look at the pictures below I ran the POSITIVE (red) wire from the new gauges, to a spot on the fuel gauge. I did the same thing for the NEGATIVE (black).

Here you can see the back of my cluster ready to go back in. I’ve probably used a far heavier gauge wire than necessary but it was close to hand.
With the sender wires you have the option of tracing out where the original goes on the cluster connector and splicing it to it or running it directly to the gauge sender, which is what I am going to do.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/clip_image008.jpg)
I hope this helps for those who want a stock look, yet accurate linier gauges.

That\'s a really really cool mod, but how did you make sure the needles went on properley? Like you dont want the reading to be off.

Great thread keep up the good work. :Thumbsup!

Quote from: RobbieRX-7That\'s a really really cool mod, but how did you make sure the needles went on properley? Like you dont want the reading to be off.

If you think about it the needle doesn’t need to go on the same position on the gauge spindle where the other one came off. The spindle doesn’t know where the needle is it will just move through its arc in correspondence to the resistance of the sender. So long as you put the needle back on at the beginning of its sweep on the gauge face it should all be ok. The only thing you need to make sure of is that the new gauges have the same arc of movement as the old Mazda ones. Haven’t put all that very well but hopefully it makes sense.

Mr B thanks for the encouragement. :cheers

Little bit done today in between showers. I finished off the fitting of the new Corvette fuel filter/pressure regulator, all in one and gives the LS1 the required 58psi nice eh? Also it’s very nearly the same size as the Mazda filter, and even fits in the Mazda bracket in the original position.:Party
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/fltrfpr.jpg)

I used a mix of some new high pressure fuel hose and a part of the original hoses (to get a nice bend) along with double hose clamps (just to be on the safe side:yes ) onto the Mazda hardline into the engine bay. The return line is no longer needed as the Vette filter/fpr has a return outlet as part of the unit so that goes straight back into the tank.
I decided not to try and get the evap line working for a couple of reasons, the main one being that the charcoal canister needed to come out as it wouldn’t fit with the new bracing on the subframe. Secondly, I would have needed to fit a pressure sensor in the fuel tank and connect it up to the new ecu for it all to work anyhow. In the end I took off the hose from the hard line and ran it up near the fuel tank vent pipe.

Now this was done I could fit the modded subframe with the diff already mounted (much easier way of doing it) onto the car making sure the handbrake and abs cables didn’t get caught (eventually:rolleyes: )
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/sbfrmon.jpg)

Once everything was bolted up I could then start to fit the suspension arms back on. But then the rain got the better of me so back it went into the garage to wait for another day:Snoring .
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/spnsnon.jpg)

Cracking thread ,keep it coming mate;)

Quick update, all the back subframe including the differential and suspension are now back on the car.
It\'s now time for the same treatment at the front, which will include a total strip down, bead blast and rebuild of the suspension with all new bushes onto the Hinson supplied modded front subframe.
Here’s a pic showing the differences between the old and new subframes. I found it a lot cheaper to buy a subframe in the US and have it sent to Hinson’s rather than ship mine across the pond, but note that should you now go to Hinson you would not have to find a donor subframe as he no longer needs a core to modify, and all for no increase in price:2Rolleyes .

Hi, just trying to workout the height of the rad and it would be useful to know where the standard undertray is height wise compared with the bottom of the towing eyes as a point of reference.
Could anyone crawl under their fd and let me know?
Cheers.

From the horizontal face the front anti roll bar clamps to, its 30mm up to the lowest point of the standard air con rad.
So if you clamp a piece of sheet material to the anti roll bar mounting faces & cut it so it fit towards the front of the car. As long as your rad is 30mm above the material face it should be clear of grounding on anything.

Thanks for that but atm I don\'t have an arb or subframe to measure from just the towing hooks or the chassis rails.

Many thanks, sorted.

Not much physical progress to report but a fair bit of research done with regards to the wiring of the LS1 and what wires to match up to from the FD.
As I’ve mentioned before, so far there are a handful of 2004 gto engines running in rx7s in the US but as yet no one has published a walkthrough for the hook-up so I\'m trying to see what has been used on the earlier types of harness and transfer what I can.  

I’ve been buzzing out the LS1 harness and think I now know what needs to be connected, but funny enough the Mazda wiring seems to be the more tricky as the diagrams I have are for the US spec and are quite different, ho hum.

I also separated the gearbox once again because I just wasn’t happy that the bleed for the clutch would be almost impossible to get at once the engine and box are installed. I’ve opted to use a remote bleed line with a speed bleeder on the end. So now I can get at easily bleed the slave cylinder, should I need to.

Oh by the way I weighed the T56 6 speed gearbox while it was off and it came out to 63kg which is 27kg lighter than the Mazda auto box it\'s replacing.:yes

hi spartacus,to late now but you can get to the clutch to bleed it ok with a long 12mm socket,but the remote hose is better they bleed real easy and you wont belive how light the clutch is.

Quote from: tinker-27you wont belive how light the clutch is.

LOL One day I\'d like to find out:rolleyes:

i did read that the location of the slave cylinder isnt great because with a hard launch the heat in the bell housing causes the fluid to boil.
then you loose the pressure till it cools down. although thats in a heavier car than the rex.

never heard of that before most modern cars have the slave round the main shaft these days,ive done loads of very hard launches (mine will launch in 3rd from 10mph with proper tyre smoke!!) and no problems there are six of us round here running ls powered cars nd none have any problems most running std clutches,you can fit a 4mm spacer behind the slave to put the slave into its throw more.

i read it on a forum so it  MUST be true:)

Quote from: t2rewi did read that the location of the slave cylinder isnt great because with a hard launch the heat in the bell housing causes the fluid to boil.
then you loose the pressure till it cools down. although thats in a heavier car than the rex.

I’ve read a few things similar, but I read that the clutch hose from the master cylinder to slave suffers from heat soak. I’ve also read that earlier versions of ls1\'s had an issue where by the same hose had a restrictor in it which had the effect of allowing a quick gear change but only once, if you tried to go for a 2nd quick gear change the fluid didn’t have time to return to the reservoir so you would have trouble disengaging the clutch. Thinking about it they may be one in the same problem as I haven’t seen many recent posts discussing the problem.

most modern cars have the restriction in the clutch line m5s,xtypes,rx7s,audi tts, it is very common it means you can get away with a weaker clutch and gearbox, i think the master cylinder being near the exhaust headers is more likely to heat up the fluid that inside the bellhousing. on a fd the clutch and brake fluid is shared so it has a bigger resovior to use,and some people change the brake fluid to keep it fresh but forget the clutch. i have just ordered a dodge viper diff for mine to get better gearing (3.08) this will make 6th a big overdrive but it seems it will pull any gearing.how are you getting on with the wiring ?,they dont make it easy do they ,

Quote from: tinker-27how are you getting on with the wiring ?,they dont make it easy do they ,

Mmmmmmm now there\'s a question, well the harness came all connected up on the pullout so my theory is I just need to connect the wires that are now on dangling plugs, easy eh? I think I\'m just about there using the pre 2004 harness instructions as a guide but to be honest the hardest part is trying to find the wires suggested on the Mazda harness as 1, the wiring diagram I\'m using is for the US model and 2, some of the wires I\'m meant to be using are found on modules in the car the JDM versions don’t have.

I\'m trying to work out as much as possible before the engine goes in as I wouldn’t like to have to take it out again if I’ve overlooked anything. But saying that the wiring side of things should be ok to mod if I have to once the engine is in (fingers crossed)

I\'ve been reading this with much interest as am planning to do something similar myself in the near future, and am impressed with how you\'ve got on so far tbh...
 
I see you\'ve not posted for a while and was just wondering if everything\'s still going ok or if you\'ve hit a few problems??

Well work goes on but not that much of it is related to the swap. Things like new brakes, underseal, converting the rear fog lamp, sound deadening, battery relocation etc etc. All this is while I\'m waiting for a short shift kit for the gearbox. Once it arrives (should be soon) the engine and box can go in. With any luck this should be next week some time, and with that I\'ll try and post a new raft of updates. I think I have worked out all the wiring. Originally I anticipated that some guys in the US would have their GTO motors running by now and would publish a walk through but as that hasn’t happened I’ve searched the web for circuit diagrams etc and I\'m 95% sure that I now know what needs to be done. If it works out I\'m happy to publish what’s needed for anyone else.

Just to show that I’ve not been sitting around, well not much anyhow, here are a few pics of what I’ve been up to with the conversion.
As most of the interior is out I thought I would add a few kgs of Dynamat extreme under the bins and in the doors for now.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/dynmat1.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/dynmat2.jpg)

I’ve also done the battery relocation into one of the bins. The main supply will now go straight to the LS1 starter via a 200A fuse and a 150A circuit breaker, then onto the alternator and finally the original Mazda main/secondary fuse box.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/bat2.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/bat1-1.jpg)

The rad I will be using is from a mid eighties Corvette which just fits and believe it or not a Volvo S60 fan and shroud after a bit of dremeling here and there and some ally tube for spacing.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/rad1.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/rad2.jpg)

I’ve have been waiting for a short shift kit which apart from sharpening up the changes will also help me be able to adjust the position of the gear lever. The pre 2004 box\'s put the lever right at the front of the Mazda opening and the post 2004 right at the back.
Well it arrived this morning so that has just been swapped and now I\'m just about ready to drop the engine and box in.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/rip1.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/rip2.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/rip3.jpg)

Dynamat extreme, dosnt this stiuff wiegh a lot?

great project by the way, be good to se it in the flesh

Quote from: rotaryart.uk.comDynamat extreme, dosnt this stiuff wiegh a lot?

great project by the way, be good to se it in the flesh

According to the web site it\'s 2.20kg/m2 and so far I\'ve used about 3m2 but I have ditched a heavy battery in favour of a light weight:Santa

that battery relocation looks very nicely done! any chance of a few more details, like where you got the bits, and what wnet where? I am thinking of doing exactly the same in mine in the next few weeks so opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated!

Why have you used a fuse and circuit breaker?

Quote from: RobMatthewsWhy have you used a fuse and circuit breaker?

The circuit breaker is safe to use for general overloads but should there be a complete short of the main cable (especially as it now runs through the car) the current could jump across the contacts or even weld them closed hence the fuse of a higher rating. The circuit breaker is also handy to have to isolate the battery easily now that it’s in a bin.

Quote from: marcothat battery relocation looks very nicely done! any chance of a few more details, like where you got the bits, and what wnet where? I am thinking of doing exactly the same in mine in the next few weeks so opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated!

The battery is a varley redtop 40 (http://www.varleyredtop.co.uk/products_30.htm) not cheap but it fits really well, it\'s light and should provide all the power you would ever need. I used flexible 50mm sq cable to run to the starter then 35mm from there to the alternator and from the alternator to the Mazda Fuse box\'s. If you were just doing a battery relocation I would run it to the main fuse box after you have cut off the existing battery terminal to keep it neat (circled in red). The circuit breaker is a 150 amp Stinger SCB150 and the fuse holder and fuse are a generic ANL 200amp. The cable, lugs and battery I bought over here but found all the rest much cheaper in the US.
If you need some links for the UK suppliers let me know and I\'ll dig them up.

I have found a battery ( i think)
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/xstatic-x800-p-3719.html
and I guess I can pick up cabling, circuit breaker etc from say demon tweeks? or is there somewhere a fair bit cheaper?
i take it you drilled the floorpan to pass the cable to the starter, did you use some kind of protective sleeving for the cable under the car? I was thinking of doing the same thing. the circuit breaker and fuse combo (which I will probably shamelessly copy off you) will provide the starter motor with protection and then from there the main fuse block can do its normal stuff, the other way would require a much longer run of cable, which cant do that much good surely!

How come you\'ve put a fuse AND a circuit breaker?

Quote from: marcoI have found a battery ( i think)
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/xstatic-x800-p-3719.html
and I guess I can pick up cabling, circuit breaker etc from say demon tweeks? or is there somewhere a fair bit cheaper?
i take it you drilled the floorpan to pass the cable to the starter, did you use some kind of protective sleeving for the cable under the car? I was thinking of doing the same thing. the circuit breaker and fuse combo (which I will probably shamelessly copy off you) will provide the starter motor with protection and then from there the main fuse block can do its normal stuff, the other way would require a much longer run of cable, which cant do that much good surely!

I got my battery from here https://www.rallydesign.co.uk/
For the cable etc have a look through these links, I used most of them for bits and pieces.
http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/home/homepage.php
http://www.power-store.com/view-item.asp?itemid=285&id=63&page=2&
http://www.shop.pcscables.co.uk/products.asp?SubCategory=10

The Cable run to the starter was through the front side of the bin and under the carpet to the side following the other cables. Once you get to under the seat I used one of the floor hollows/grooves to roughly the centre of the pedals. If you pull back the carpet from behind the pedals you will find a large grommet, I used this to get me into the right hand chassis rail with the help of some 15mm plastic water pipe about a foot long to protect the cable as there are various box sections to go through. There are various ready made holes along the side of the chassis rail in the engine bay and I used one of these with a grommet to come out near where the starter terminal is.
Just a tip I would defiantly get the flexible cable as it’s much easier to follow the curves and bends of the car.

The earth cable went through the inner side of the bin where you will find a large tapped hole which is used for the rear seatbelts when used. Make sure you remove all the paint before bolting the lug to there though.

To be honest for you I would have thought it would have been easier to run the cable from the passenger side bin and go straight to the main fuse block leaving the rest of the Mazda wiring intact. I only did it the way I have done for my V8 conversion. You wouldn\'t be saving much on cable and it would make it a lot easier I would guess.

I\'ll pop a pic up of where my cable comes into the engine bay next time the cars out.

Quote from: efinisteHow come you\'ve put a fuse AND a circuit breaker?

Answered in post 98 :Thumbs-up

Just spotted that, sorry!

A piece of advise from experience carry a spare fuse and correct allen key just in case you do blow the main fuse! i had a set up in a previous car with the battery\'s in the boot and had a short and cut all the cars power,problem was i was over 100 miles from home and rac man was not very helpfull when he seen i had a modified car.:p

Quote from: RobMatthewsA piece of advise from experience carry a spare fuse and correct allen key just in case you do blow the main fuse! i had a set up in a previous car with the battery\'s in the boot and had a short and cut all the cars power,problem was i was over 100 miles from home and rac man was not very helpfull when he seen i had a modified car.:p

Spot on with the fuse, I have a couple of spares but some how I didn\'t think about the alllen key:Hammer :cheers

Well the engine is finally now in without too much trouble. There are a couple of issues with the clearance of the brake master cylinder and one of the coil packs which will need either a dent in the vacuum chamber or slightly moving the coil. Also the aircon pump connections are very close to the chassis rail but I think that an earlier type of pump had it\'s connections at the back of the pump rather than the side like my GTO type (Craig, able to confirm?) so I might be able to swap them.
Anyhow must go, lots to do while the sun is out.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/engin1.jpg)
 
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/engin2.jpg)

oooh nice........ shoudl be running by next week.

Nice one, you picked a good day to work on it today :)
 
I\'m currently doing a lot of research on this myself and reading on the "Grannys" website (http://www.grannysspeedshop.com/ (http://www.grannysspeedshop.com/)) about the conversion process as i will be doing this eventually (hopefully), just wondering if there is a better "how-to" site from the UK you\'ve been referring to ?
 
Anyways, looking good there chap :)

Quote from: SmbFD3SNice one, you picked a good day to work on it today :)
 
I\'m currently doing a lot of research on this myself and reading on the "Grannys" website (http://www.grannysspeedshop.com/ (http://www.grannysspeedshop.com/)) about the conversion process as i will be doing this eventually (hopefully), just wondering if there is a better "how-to" site from the UK you\'ve been referring to ?
 
Anyways, looking good there chap :)

Grannys is a good place to get an idea of what’s involved. The best site/forum I found is http://v8rx7forum.com/index.php. Here you can find a good few builds using different options etc although 99% is US based there isn\'t too much difference for RHD.

That Dynamating is nice and neat! Should help keep road noise out! I did the same last year...but no-where near as neat :p

Are you gona do the boot aswell?

Quote from: RixioThat Dynamating is nice and neat! Should help keep road noise out! I did the same last year...but no-where near as neat :p

Are you gona do the boot aswell?

I took my time as I couldnt do much else as I was waiting for parts. I have enough left over for the boot but I\'m not sure I like the look of it where you can see it if you know what I mean.

Do you have a link for the rear sub frame ???

Shaun

Sorry no, I got mine from a guy in Canada who made a small batch of them. I dont think he was planning to make any more but if you want i could dig up his details?

If you could that would be great, may want an uprated rear end :D

Shaun

hi spartacus i have a pump at work i will look at it to see where they come out (cant remember as i dont run air con),i dont think the rear subframes are being done as there were issues with some types,its coming along now looking good,how many hours so far ?

Quote from: tinker-27hi spartacus i have a pump at work i will look at it to see where they come out (cant remember as i dont run air con),i dont think the rear subframes are being done as there were issues with some types,its coming along now looking good,how many hours so far ?

Thanks Craig that would be great if you could. Touch wood the people who have my rear subframe haven’t reported any issues but I know what you mean, as there have been reports of problems with other designs.
As for how many hours it\'s very hard to tell the actual hands on time as most of it has been taken up waiting for parts etc, although I’ve tried to keep busy by doing other bits and pieces. If I was to do another one I would definitely project manage all the parts better so they are here when I need them and I would defiantly want to have at least a double garage as doing it with just a small single is a real pain.

Quote from: shaunwilIf you could that would be great, may want an uprated rear end :D

Shaun

Shaun, PM sent.

cheers, reply sent :Giggle

Shaun

Time for an update on what’s been happening since the engine was put in. Firstly I’ve not been able to do things in the order id have liked to as our house is in the process of being sold and I may need to move the car without much notice. So my first priority was to get it into at least a rolling state, putting on the suspension, brakes and steering rack etc. I would have liked to get the engine running first to check for any problems etc but hey. Here it is with its nice shiny new brakes and coilovers

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/frontsus.jpg)

Now that it can be moved the next job was to put on the exhaust manifolds, which look lovely but are very close to everything! subframe, chassis, steering column, fuel line and clutch line. For piece of mind I think some heat sheilding may be a good idea here and there. I’ve also put on the exhaust Y pipe but left the rest of the exhaust for now.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/rhheaders.jpg)

The rad and fan has been fitted and some of you who are in the building game might just recognise my rad mounts….. yes they are joist hangers and do the job really well. Eventually the top of the rad will be fixed too.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/rad.jpg)

The remote clutch master cylinder has been fitted and bled and seems to work ok but the proof of the pudding will be seeing what its like once the engines running. In this pic you can also see the bottom rad hose which took some finding. Apparently a Camaro hose is close but funny enough my local motor factors were all out. Then after the obvious “well what car is it for” and my reply its for a 94 Mazda RX7 with a Pontiac GTO engine and a Corvette rad, I got to delve through their shelves of hoses until I found one that works. The top hose uses one of the original Mazda hoses and one of the GTO hoses joined easy eh?

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/mastercylbttmhose.jpg)

The power steering was next. The LS1 pump is over rated for the Mazda rack so an easy and effective mod is to cut a few coils off of the pressure relief spring.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/springmod.jpg)

You also need to join the high-pressure hose from the LS1 pump to the Mazda rack. I had both sets of ends Mazda and Pontiac so off they went to Pirtec in Harlow who joined them for me with a flexible hose.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/pspipe.jpg)

 The low-pressure return side I’ve routed via one of the redundant oil coolers (not strictly necessary) on the driver’s side, which as luck would have it has simple push on connectors as my RX7 was originally an auto.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/oilcooler.jpg)

Just for a change and because it was raining I thought Id have a go at the gear lever surround. I’m using my original auto surround and using the GTO’s boot and lever.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/geartop.jpg)

Considering the GTO has a square surround and the Mazda  roundish it fits really well without any modification. The only thing I’ve had to make is the ring to hold it in place.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/gearunder.jpg)

Now for the wiring. Most people in the US seem to layout their harness on a board and strip it, adding in what wires they need. But as Pontiac did a fine job of getting everything working I thought Id trust them and try and leave as much of it intact as I could.
My theory is that the engine ran with the harness plugged in as is leave it alone, this excepting any plugs that are now dangling. After a lot of research it seems the only other connections that are needed to get the engine running can be found on just 2 plugs from the original harness.

One of them ends up at the front of the car (near the fuse box:) ) and the other inside the passenger footwell with the ecu :Thumbs-up

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/plug1.jpg)

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/rhdv8/plug2.jpg)


The electrical side of things are still ongoing, fingers crossed:2Rolleyes

All looking good. Just make sure the pinch bolt on the top clamp of the steering column doesn’t catch the headers. Makes for a interesting first test drive! Just ask Craig.

Looking very nice :D

Shaun

If any one has the white plug pictured above going spare I`m after one.

Quote from: mar71nAll looking good. Just make sure the pinch bolt on the top clamp of the steering column doesn’t catch the headers. Makes for a interesting first test drive! Just ask Craig.

Funny enough it did, but I reversed that joint to move the UJ a bit and it\'s fine.

Quote from: mar71nIf any one has the white plug pictured above going spare I`m after one.

If you mean the loom plug from the GTO? I will have once I\'ve cut off all I need. Have you got the plug to go into it then?

This is a quality thread.


..

and a great build

:Thumbs-up

Quote from: strange_days_ukThis is a quality thread.


..

and a great build

:Thumbs-up

Aww shuks i\'m red now........

its not that plug you need martin you need x14 from the mazda loom !!

Quote from: tinker-27its not that plug you need martin you need x14 from the mazda loom !!

I didn\'t go the X-14 route, I found it just as easy going from behind the dials.

looking good phil,   let me know if you need a hand moving the car,  i have a A frame towing dolley which i used to use to tow my rx7 to rotorstock.  I\'m Happy to help out.

Quote from: antnicuklooking good phil,   let me know if you need a hand moving the car,  i have a A frame towing dolley which i used to use to tow my rx7 to rotorstock.  I\'m Happy to help out.

This man is a super hero:god  I\'m still hoping that I will be able to drive it away but if it comes to it I\'d be very grateful, cheers.

Very quick and short update from my phone, looks like all my wiring was ok after all. Can\'t stop, moving house soon and I\'d like to bring the car with me! So better get on and put some of it back together.

I had a few crossed fingers here.

superb,    well done matey,  excellent progress.

Quote from: antnicuksuperb,    well done matey,  excellent progress.

Many thanks, I\'m not out of the woods yet. I need to put the car back together, MOT\'d etc etc all while packing up all our gear and arranging to move house. It\'s getting a bit like the old plate spinning on poles act.
I have considered not giving the new owners a key to the garage and waiting until they go to work so I could carry on working on the car.:rolleyes:

I may need your services yet:guinness

Nice one mate, lovely to hear her starting up :D
 
Hope all goes well with the move too :D

Quote from: SpartacusI may need your services yet:guinness

no problem,  do you have a tow bar?

brilliant! Nice one dude! must be well satisfying tio hear her start!

Must be nice to hear it running, I certainly enjoyed it :)

A few questions:

1 - Did you consider getting a wiring loom converted by Hinsons? (This would be the hardest part of the project for me so I was looking for the easy way out)
2 - Is it legal to run the Hinson exhaust without a cat?
3 - After import tax etc. would it have been any cheaper to get a custom exhaust system built over hear? (excluding headers)

Quote from: Grub2000Must be nice to hear it running, I certainly enjoyed it :)

A few questions:

1 - Did you consider getting a wiring loom converted by Hinsons? (This would be the hardest part of the project for me so I was looking for the easy way out)
2 - Is it legal to run the Hinson exhaust without a cat?
3 - After import tax etc. would it have been any cheaper to get a custom exhaust system built over hear? (excluding headers)

1) When I considered the wiring I knew that the pre 2004 pcm instructions were tried and tested, and I thought that by the time I needed instructions for the 2004 type pcm they would be available on line too. But as it turned out I had to work out the wiring mostly on my own. So now I would say that unless you are opting for a LS2 which I can’t comment on, the wiring is relatively easy, maybe more so for the 2004 type. And if you went this route I\'d be happy to help out with what I’ve learnt along the way.
You should also take into account, anything you do yourself you tend to know inside out which could be useful in the long run should anything go wrong. Also it works out a whole lot cheaper. This can also be applied to Hinson’s fuel/cooling systems etc.

2) It\'s legal to run any exhaust without a cat as long as it passes the relevant emission tests, i.e. an imported pre 95 rx7 wouldn’t need a cat to pass. If you had a UK type rex or a post 95 you might still need a cat.
But generally speaking the LS engines are very clean.

3) The problem I had was that I had no way of getting the car to anyone else over here to make the exhaust system, and I wanted an as easy a life as poss so I went with Hinson\'s.
If you could, my recommendation would be to get Hinson’s headers and Y pipe then get the rear section and back box over here.

By the way mine is now in one piece, MOT\'d and had its first run. But with the house move and Christmas I\'ve had a bit of a rest. With any luck the next update and pics won’t be too long in coming.
Anything else I can help with don’t hesitate.

So spartacus have you had to modify the steering or anything for the exhaust or has it been a straight fit?i know you would have to alterthe power steering pump position

would be great to hear it running and see it in the flesh Spartacus..... if you dont mind me in asking how much has or will it have cost you in total?

Quote from: RobMatthewsSo spartacus have you had to modify the steering or anything for the exhaust or has it been a straight fit?i know you would have to alterthe power steering pump position

Rob, the only thing I needed to do on the steering was turn the top universal joint around to clear the exhaust manifold and get a new power steering line made up with one end from the Mazda and one from the GTO. The power steering pump hasn’t been moved but I did relocate the reservoir so it fitted under the bonnet.

Draco, to be honest I haven’t kept a strict record of the costs but it has been well under £10k inc the cost of the car to start with.

oh good,  you can sell it to me then:)

Quote from: antnicukoh good,  you can sell it to me then:)

Wouldn\'t be quick enough for you;)

Excellant thread, love the build of the car, all looks nice and clean :cool

Quote from: SpartacusWouldn\'t be quick enough for you;)

thats what superchargers are for!   got a procharger and a vortech in the workshop  :2eek

Quote from: antnicukthats what superchargers are for!   got a procharger and a vortech in the workshop  :2eek

:rollin wouldn\'t that look nice sticking through the bonnet:2Confused
I only have about 3mm spare above the throttle body now!:2eek

Where did you source your Supra FP, Corvette FPR, and Thermostat?

Also, did you get the Fbody mounts from the same place you got your engine from?

Oh, and am I going blind, or do Hinson no longer do the full exhaust?

Is the FPR and filter the same thing? can you source filters in UK or do they have to be shipped in from US? How often do they need changing?.

Quote from: Grub2000Where did you source your Supra FP, Corvette FPR, and Thermostat?

Also, did you get the Fbody mounts from the same place you got your engine from?

Oh, and am I going blind, or do Hinson no longer do the full exhaust?

I came across a great guy on one of the US forums who helped a lot. I put some cash into his paypal account, found out what I wanted and where from, and he ordered those parts for me in the US and shipped them over in one box.
The fuel pump was from RX7store.net, FPR was from Napa (I think) along with some other fuel connectors and the stat was from Summit. I would think that eurovettes (also good guys) here in the UK could get most things American as that is where my Vette rad came from.

When I ordered my engine and box from Cleveland pick-a-part I asked that the sump etc was swapped for an Fbody type and that they included the Fbody engine mounts.

Yep, looks like the full exhaust is now missing from Hinson\'s website. As I said before if I did it again I don’t think I would get the whole system anyhow, just up to the Y pipe. If you really wanted it, drop him an email and see what he says.

The Vette filter is also a FPR and according to the Vette websites it shouldn’t need changing for 36,000mls which is just as well as I put mine in the same place as the Mazda one. Others have put them on the side of the subframe where they can be got at easier. Again I should think that eurovettes would be able to get them over here.

So are you going the LSX route too?:Thumbsup!  How far along are you?

How far along...well just at planning stages at mo :2Rolleyes

I want to be sure of what to get and how much it will cost me before I go ahead as I will have to rent a garage.

Thanks for answering my questions, I have just spent nearly the whole day reading up on the v8 RX7 forums trying to get my head around what to do and what to use.

I think it was you that kindly sent me the Hinson spread sheet a while ago. I am RexVate on the other forum.

Hi mate, just wondering if the LS1 is still going strong and how you\'re getting on with it really, been a while since an update ??

BTTT..... how things going??

Really sorry for the lack of updates guys but since the house move just before Xmas I’ve had to put my time and priorities else where for the most part. That’s not to say that I haven’t had done some tinkering with the car just not much.

Well the news is that it runs great (or it did:mad:) if a bit loud as at the moment as it only has a back box but more on that later. You could say that the power is adequate:rolleyes:, it’s happy to trundle along at around 1000 revs in 4th and still pull like a train when you put your foot down.
I\'m not sure what sort of power it\'s making but the GTO it came from should have been around 350bhp and 350 ft/lbs torque and it now has tubular manifolds, 3.5 inch exhaust, K&N air filter and ecu tune so it\'s anyone’s guess.

Since using it I now have a shortlist of mods I’ve either carried out already or will have to at some point.
The first thing I did was make a radiator top shroud to make sure all the incoming air is forced through the rad.
The Mazda under tray still fits, although it needed to be stretched a bit here and there.
I bought a scangauge so I can see intake temps etc and have found that the intake is suffering form heat soak which now looking at is isn’t surprising as the intake and the temp sensor is right above the top rad hose so I\'ll have to try and insulate it and maybe try and work out how to get some colder air into the intake.  

I\'m also going to try and add another silencer further up the system just after the Y pipe although there isn’t much room because although it sounds great it\'s a bit too loud for me (I am getting on you know).

Now for the bad news.............. The clutch cable snapped at the pedal leaving me stranded:3Confused. The original design form Hinson’s was a remote master cylinder operated by a cable to the pedal as there is very little room between the bulkhead and the cylinder head. It was always something that I wasn’t 100% happy with and now I know why.
The ironic thing is that before I used this solution I asked Hinson’s If the original GTO master cylinder could be used 1/2 inside the footwell and 1/2 in the engine bay (as it has a remote reservoir), but I was told it couldn’t be done. So bowing to his much greater experience I went with the cable. Well guess what, it broke and Hinson now ships GTO master cylinders with his RHD kits! :flamed

Anyhow I’ve found one from a Vauxhall Monaro which was being broken so I’m swapping over (or at least trying to) to a full hydraulic system but it\'s a bit of a pain due to lack of room, it would have been so much easer to do if it was done in the first place with out the engine in but hey ho.

Should be back on the road soon and I\'ll keep the thread updated with any other news.

Just get the engine out you will get used to it. I dropped mine four times till everything was said and done. I\'m getting pretty fast on it now :)

looking good, luv to hear/see a vid of it rumbling before you silence it

Quote from: BlitzBoy;513184looking good, luv to hear/see a vid of it rumbling before you silence it

I\'ll see what I can do:Thumbs-up

Good to see it all together. I’ve got a 3" silencer just after the Y it’s straight through but with that & the back box just about right.

hi spartacus drop me a line i might be able to help with the master cylinder mod as there are things that make it work better, craig

Well I’ve sorted out the clutch problem by swapping in a Vauxhall Monaro master cylinder directly on to the back of the Mazda pedal, but what a pain it was. As you can see from the 2nd pic there must be at least 3mm to spare before it touches the cylinder head (phew) it would have been handy if the remote reservoir was bigger than half an egg cup too!!! but hey......  The clutch now feels so much lighter and has given the car a whole new character to drive.:burnout.

Can you not get a bigger reserve for it bud? Looking at the pics it looks like you\'ll just need a bigger reservoir with the same sized connection? Or am i need new glasses??
Damn fine job getting it fitted tho, that is what you call close!

Quote from: Bobbit;515668Can you not get a bigger reserve for it bud? Looking at the pics it looks like you\'ll just need a bigger reservoir with the same sized connection? Or am i need new glasses??
Damn fine job getting it fitted tho, that is what you call close!

Once it\'s in and working the reservoir is fine, it\'s just a bit of a pain when you’re filling/bleeding the system from empty. I don’t know how many times I had to stop and refill it, not to count the times I didn’t get to it quite quick enough and had to start over:mad:

pah,  3mm, that what grinders are for :)

glad you got it sorted,  wish i had 3mm to play with in places....

Quote from: antnicuk;515729pah,  3mm, that what grinders are for :)

glad you got it sorted,  wish i had 3mm to play with in places....

:rollin Lol I’ve not been trained by the Jedi grinder master like you have.

hi which way up is the master cylinder ? are the fittings at the bottom ? , it looks like it in the pics,you can use the brake master reservior there is normally a blanked of bung where the manual car feeds from. i have a manual res if you need one.good to see it running !!!!

Quote from: tinker-27;515753hi which way up is the master cylinder ? are the fittings at the bottom ? , it looks like it in the pics,you can use the brake master reservior there is normally a blanked of bung where the manual car feeds from. i have a manual res if you need one.good to see it running !!!!

Yep the master cylinder has it\'s outlet at the bottom and inlet at the top, didn’t think of using the brake master cylinder reservoir like Mazda does Doh:Hammer. I guess it was because as mine was an auto originally it was never plumbed in to the Mazda clutch master cylinder.

Now that its done it\'s ok and thinking about it, it might be a better solution as the t56 clutch fluid is meant to be easily overheated and contaminated so keeping it separate and easily replaced might pay dividends in the end.

At least I can now move on to the rest of the development/improvements.

Quote from: antnicuk;515729wish i had 3mm to play with in places....

that\'s what my missues says, :3Confused LOL! :Giggle

Well today’s little development opportunity was to see what I could do about the heat soak to the inlet air temperature sensor.
First step was to take out the sensor and swap the thermistor for a faster reacting one. As you can see from the pic the new thermistor is much smaller which probably contributes to it being able to react to temperature changes that much quicker.

Then I wanted to try and insulate the sensor from the heat source. So I wrapped the upper rad hose and the inlet elbow in a very special heat reflecting cloth. Ok ok it was a couple of sheets of the cloth that plumbers use when they are soldering pipes so they don’t burn paintwork etc.... sneaky eh :Thumbs-up. I then covered them in a thin aluminium tape (more plumbing supplies) just for good measure.

Well the results seem to show it was successful, as before the sensor once heat soaked would give an indicated air temp about 20 deg F lower than the water temp (not good). Now the hottest it’s showing is around 20 deg F above ambient, which although not perfect it is a vast improvement and this with the car is stationary. Once moving the air temp drops much quicker than before too, so all in all well worth an hour or twos work and £20.
Ideally I\'d now like to work out how to get colder air into the filter. NACA duct on the bonnet?:rolleyes:

Just to give you some idea what a LS1 fd sounds like, shame the A1 was a bit busy this morning:rolleyes:. Id like to keep its tone but lose some db which hopefully I can do by adding a small silencer after the Y pipe.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aqvV4NAQlTE (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aqvV4NAQlTE)

can you not just slid a piece of ali shielding between the top hose and the filter pipe,  i can sort it for if need be.

Quote from: antnicuk;516528can you not just slid a piece of ali shielding between the top hose and the filter pipe,  i can sort it for if need be.

I was thinking along those lines but the rad top hose and the inlet elbow are actually touching so I wanted something that would insulate them better. I wouldn’t have thought that a sheet of ali would be that good as in insulator when it’s touching both surfaces? Also when the fan comes on the whole area is soaked with hot air.

Thought I would dig this thread out again.

If you had to do your swap again is there anything you would have done differently in terms of parts purchased?

I was intending to do a conversion a while back but it got put on hold. I am now researching again and wondering if I should get a complete (expensive) kit from the states or just the essentials.

Quote from: Grub2000;780169Thought I would dig this thread out again.

If you had to do your swap again is there anything you would have done differently in terms of parts purchased?

I was intending to do a conversion a while back but it got put on hold. I am now researching again and wondering if I should get a complete (expensive) kit from the states or just the essentials.

For me as I wanted to do as much of the conversion myself but don\'t have any welding kit I went for the basic Samberg Rod & Custom install kit. I\'d have liked to order the radiator and inlet setup but that almost doubled the cost. So instead I used a Freelander rad and made my own straight CAI setup using an Ebay sourced Corvette twin filter, large diameter ally tube and silicon joiners.

You could re-use a rotary rad setup but the lower hose needs to be moved to miss the crank pulley.

If you want a pain free conversion then of course Craig at Dyno Torque is probably the best way to go.

The basic Samberg conversion kit includes the engine frame, rear trans bracket, front diff bracket and the bumpsteer conversion parts.

The other major convern is the exhaust system. I had the complete system made on my car but I was lucky to have friend to do it at a reasonable cost. I believe you can order a set of Edelbrock mid length headers that work on RHD cars and then get the rest of the system made. Also re-use any cat back system you have already.

I have a radtec rad and longtube headers surplus to requirements if you decide to go ahead and do it.

I know that the Hinson headers are different on one side to the other. Not sure why. Perhaps cos if the mount or steering column.

Not heard of using defilipo headers in an rx7 build before (not that that means much).

I have also posted on the no rotors forum so maybe someone there will have more details.

I\'m just doing a ls2 for a guy who brought a kit from the states and it\'s not very good at all, but I have seen steves Samberg kit which is lots lots better so if you are going to do it your self they are the better kit from the states,

Quote from: Grub2000;780169Thought I would dig this thread out again.

If you had to do your swap again is there anything you would have done differently in terms of parts purchased?

I was intending to do a conversion a while back but it got put on hold. I am now researching again and wondering if I should get a complete (expensive) kit from the states or just the essentials.

Hi, sorry for not getting back sooner.
Would I do anything differently? Well yes and no, there are many more options now than when I did my build and the exchange rate was much better then than it is now. A lot depends on how much you want to/can do, how much you want to spend and lastly what you want the end result to be.

At the time I did my build Justin Samberg’s kits weren’t available so if I did my swap now I would probably use his mounting kit as a starter as from what I’ve read he’s quite a bit easier to deal with compared to his main competitor. Having said that, in the US there are many many more people who use Hinson’s and like me are very happy with it. After all he was the first to offer a conversion kit many years ago. When I went to get my suspension and alignment done at wheels in motion they were impressed to see a car so “straight”. How much of this was due to the subframes, the original Mazda chassis, luck or a combination of all 3 I don’t know but shows that there had been some care taken with both of the subframes manufacture. My rear subframe and diff mounting was fabricated by a guy in Canada as part of a limited group buy as at the time it was the only alternative to Hinson’s torque arm which I never liked the look of. It has worked well and everyone who purchased one has nothing but praise for it, but again I would now go for the cheaper Samberg option.

Hinson’s supplied exhaust headers are from what I’ve seen by far the best, being mandrel bent ect (although there was a guy I helped in Aus doing some nice looking RHD ones too) but I’m not sure if they would work with the Samberg subframe. If I were buying now I think I would just get the Hinson headers and Y pipe and find someone over here to make the rest of the system.

For cooling and induction, again if money was no object I would go with Samburg’s but with a little fabrication of your own a Landrover rad (inlet and outlet on the same side giving more options for induction) and an induction of your own design would be fine and a whole lot cheaper.

Fuel, the Corvette regulator/filter is a no brainer depending on what BHP is required.

Basically I would advise to try and work out how much you want to spend and what your priority’s are for the car. If your building to a budget you might consider spending the most on the parts you would want to keep for the life of the car and then less on parts that you can easily upgrade at a later date.

Or you might even try to find a current owner willing to sell.

PS.
Try to read as much as you can on norotors.com and go from there.

Hope that helps, happy to answer any other questions you have.

From my experience dealing with Justin Samberg has been very good as he sent the kit on the day he said would and also helped me to source a few other items at the same time. Such as an F Body sump kit (I bought a Monaro/GTO V8 over here), the correct engine stands and rubber mounts (they call em biscuits).

I suspect that may be that his operation is smaller than Hinson\'s so can be more customer focussed.

When I was looking for an engine I mostly went by the Ebay auctions for pricing. At the time (Late \'09) a decent LS6 was going for $5000 for a complete drop out. So with import tax and shipping that was working out at around £4000-5000.

Not really any price advantage but you had a lot more choice. I eventually bought an LS1 from Gary Clay on Pistonheads for £4K and he brought it over on a trailer so I could see it before handing over the cash as i was close by.

Well as far a I can tell the essentials for me will be the samberg mounting gear, headers (Hinson if they work with somber?) and Y-pipe.

Radiator wise I don\'t know that I can justify the expense of the specialist units. Might go with your landy suggestion and get a mate to make some shrouding for it.

Catback is a bit of an unknown.

What\'s ground clearance on the exhaust like? I would be interested to see if I could get some kind of switchable system like the monaro guys have.

Are standard brakes good enough for a standard LS1?

Well as far a I can tell the essentials for me will be the samberg mounting gear, headers (Hinson if they work with somber?) and Y-pipe.

Radiator wise I don\'t know that I can justify the expense of the specialist units. Might go with your landy suggestion and get a mate to make some shrouding for it.

Catback is a bit of an unknown.

What\'s ground clearance on the exhaust like? I would be interested to see if I could get some kind of switchable system like the monaro guys have.

Are standard brakes good enough for a standard LS1?

Quote from: Grub2000;781032What\'s ground clearance on the exhaust like? I would be interested to see if I could get some kind of switchable system like the monaro guys have.

Are standard brakes good enough for a standard LS1?

To give you an idea my car is about 25.25 inches from the ground to the middle of bottom of the front arch and the lowest point is at the bottom of the headers before the Y and I’ve had no problems with it grounding (yet). I wouldn’t like to say you could go much lower so the cut-outs would have to be somewhere else if you were going to have them.

As for the brakes I went for US Racingbrake 2 piece rotors with Mintex extreme pads which are a marked improvement over stock, but again this was when the exchange rate was much better than it is now.

I don’t mean to repeat myself but it all depends how you intend to use the car. Think of the performance it will have and ask yourself if the brakes you currently have will be up for the job? Also, I\'m guessing most insurance companies would like to see that you have upgraded the braking system in line with the extra power.

Thanks for your replies. I am sure I will have a few more in the future :)

Grub, drop me an email to steve@efini dot co dot uk, I\'ll do you a deal on the headers and custom rad I have. They were made around the Samberg mounting kit and the exhaust will mate up with a standard/aftermarket FD catback.
As for brakes, I don\'t think you can go far wrong with standard disks and a decent set of pads unless you\'re going on track.

Quote from: efiniste;781084Grub, drop me an email to steve@efini dot co dot uk, I\'ll do you a deal on the headers and custom rad I have. They were made around the Samberg mounting kit and the exhaust will mate up with a standard/aftermarket FD catback.
As for brakes, I don\'t think you can go far wrong with standard disks and a decent set of pads unless you\'re going on track.

You have mail.

Lossing weight always aids braking. So I\'ve gone that route and lost 100 kgs or so from my car. I\'m down to less than 1200 kgs but not recommended if you like you\'re creature comforts!