Well... spent tonight finishing off the installation of my new spark plugs (7\'s and 9\'s) and my Magnecor leads. As well as my Pettit Racing AST. No issues and runs fine.
Although not as bad as before, runs alot smoother. The idling problem is still present, just not as severe or harsh.
My next guess is fuelling maybe.
I have inspected the old spark plugs. The leading plugs were black and carbonned up - bit crusty. Whereas the trailing had hints of black but were mostly a browny colour.
Doesn\'t browny mean that the engine is running lean? Should the trailing plugs be this colour?
How can the leading be running well or rich and the trailing run lean?
The idling problem started after fitting an ARC super induction box. It does eventually settle at an idle if left (maybe time for the standard ECU to adjust fuelling to suit?) But it idles up and down between 500 and 900rpm when coming to a stop or put into neutral when driving. Idles roughly for around 2mins before stabilising. Also while running rough at a standstill before stabilising the car vibrates quite a bit, it slounds as though there is a metallic clattering sound in time with the rough idling tempo coming from below the car (maybe the main CAT?) and the car smells a tad funny. Some kind of potent emissions kind of like half burnt half unburnt fuel from either the front or the middle of the car. Maybe escaping from the ARC box? Could this be EGR?
EGR is still plumbed in. Would you advise blanking this?
The car is still standard management and also has a downpipe (pre-cat removed) and a Racing Beat cat-back exhaust as well as a HKS ignition amplifier with new plugs and leads now.
I\'m guessing that with the addition of the ARC box (more air) the ECU cannot keep up in terms of fuel? Rougher running at low RPM (idling) and smooth yet maybe not as powerful at high RPM (maybe just me getting used to the power and speed of the car though).
What do you guys think to that set-up in terms of my issues? And fuelling?
I have an Apexi PFC with commander here ready to install. I have the instructions and was going to have a go at installing the unit tonight and letting it set itself up. I removed the passenger side footwell cover to reveal the factory ECU. But it seems a tad impossible to remove. It is held in to the side of the car by four brackets. Two upper and two lower, each containing four Philips headed screws which are impossible to get a tool into to remove. So... I gave up for tonight.
How are you meant to remove the standard ECU to get to and take off the harness connectors to plug into the new ECU? I\'m planning on removing the standard unit and replacing it with the Apexi then recovering with the trim. Is this possible? Or am I going about it the wrong way?
I know the base map on the Apexi is slightly richer than the map on the standard ECU, so maybe this will cure the idling problem.
Installation hints and tips for the PFC with the above issues would be greatly appreciated.
Also... does it sound as though the car is running lean?
Any feedback would be welcomed! :cheers
The apexi is only a 20 min job
Make sure you disconnect your battery, remove the old ecu, plug in the apexi, reconnet battery, start up car let idle for about 10 mins, then switch on heated rear windscreen, idle for 5 more, then switch on air con, idle for a bit more.
Done..!!
I had no trouble getting out my old ecu, might have used a socket with phillips attachment not sure, or short stubby screwdriver.
The map is rich enough for aftermarket intake and exhaust, the "base mods" you might call them.
Do it ! I did mine in the dark, do it now now !!
That\'s my problem. I know what to do with it, what it does and how to set it up. Just can\'t get the old ECU out. Can\'t get to the screws. Four under the unit and four on top. It\'s a UK spec car so is the ECU mounted differently?
I only removed the small side cover panel to uncover the unit only. Do I need to remove the glovebox also?
Tried a stubby screwdriver, can\'t get it in. Tried a socket bit and ratchet, can\'t get it in. Ran out of options.
Would I be OK running the Apexi on the base map into positive boost? Or do you recommend only driving it within negative boost until mapped properly?
I replaced my ecu with an Apexi, it\'s just a matter of getting the 10 mill bolts out there are two at the bottom and 2 (i think ) at the top, maybe one, then you can get the phillips screws out, put the brackets top and bottom back in again and fit the Apexi to them, with the hook and loop pads, i took my Apexi out again, can\'t make my mind up about keeping it, but it did not seem to run too rich to me, but then i was worried about it not being mapped at the time so gone back to standard ecu for now, and the car is certainly fast enough for me,
Good luck Bob
Quote from: Tiger_kptThat\'s my problem. I know what to do with it, what it does and how to set it up. Just can\'t get the old ECU out. Can\'t get to the screws. Four under the unit and four on top. It\'s a UK spec car so is the ECU mounted differently?
I only removed the small side cover panel to uncover the unit only. Do I need to remove the glovebox also?
Tried a stubby screwdriver, can\'t get it in. Tried a socket bit and ratchet, can\'t get it in. Ran out of options.
Would I be OK running the Apexi on the base map into positive boost? Or do you recommend only driving it within negative boost until mapped properly?
you can happily boost all day with the apexi, but a good map will get you more power.
ro284 is right, there are some bolts to remove before you get to the screws. just unscrew and unbolt everything in sight, as they come out it will start to make sense and you can rescrew or re bolt whatever you didn\'t need to remove, there\'s an earth down there somewhere that needs to stay in.
If you have been running lean the PFC base map will be a perfect temporary solution till you get it mapped.
Although if Pips doing your map it will overfuel and pop and bang even more when you get it back:rollin
. He\'s nothing if not cautious bless him
The only screws I can get to are the four on the actual ECU unit. One at each corner on the face nearest the drivers side. But I think that these are the screws to hold the actual ECU together and shouldn\'t be removed. So are too stiff to unscrew and would rather chew up than come out.
The brackets that hold the ECU to the chassis (two on top and two below)... are they part of the chassis? Or are they seperate parts... as in seperate to the chassis and seperate to the ECU, just bolted together.
Has anyone got any pictures of the ECU in the footwell to point out which bolts or fixtures I need to remove to get the ECU out. As the ones which I would go for I can\'t get to.
Or at least try to describe the ones to remove and the order to remove them in?
Suppose running too rich is far better than running too lean. lol.
If I could get the old out and the new in I would happily try the new unit. Hearing some good comments about the PFC.
Oh... and do you guys recommend de-catting with a straight through centre pipe? Or going to a high flow CAT? Taking into account the price difference.
Don\'t touch the actual ecu itself, the bracket holding it to the chassis is what you want to undo. 4 bolts I think, unscrew them and the ecu can then be detached, after you uncouple it from the loom.
There are a couple of plastic trim bits to remove to expose them.
OK... so remove a couple of plastic trim bits...
Remove four bolts on the top side of the ECU...
And remove the ECU.
Is there any flex or extra length in the loom wires? Or do I have to disconnect the loom connectors from the ECU before removing the ECU to fit the PFC?
Does the ECU come away as just the bare unit? Or does it come away with brackets and other fittings attached which you have to strip down once it is off?
unbolt the ecu bracket first, then you will need to uncouple the loom.
you will know what to do, it is easy enough..
The plugs are a bit of a cow to undo, you will need strong fingers. Mount the pfc unit with the connectors facing the front of the car and logo facing the passenger door. This way you can easily plug or unplug the commander into the top of the unit without removing the plastic trim. Use the 4 velcro pads to hold it. The brackets off the old ecu can be adjusted to squash the pfc unit and hold it tight
OK, had a look through your feedback and over the net and know what to do now.
Here\'s a question for you though...
I have a 1993... UK-SPEC... FD13 RX7. Are these similar to the Jap market cars or the US market cars? The reason I ask this is as follows: -
Would I have to disable the four wires on the loom connectors as stated below in the paragraphs taken from Dale Clark\'s Power FC FAQ e-book: -
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"There are 4 wires that need to be disconnected from the wiring harness for the PowerFC to work properly. These 4 wires are for extra emissions devices that were added in the US market, but weren\'t in the Japanese market. These 4 wires are for the EGR valve control, the EGR switch (the feedback in the California ECU cars to tell the ECU the EGR valve is working), the accelerated warmup system (AWS) which gives you the 3000 RPM startup when cold, and the Split Air Bypass solenoid, which can bypass air going to the main cat back to the airbox.
NOTE: If you have a non-US FD, you most likely won’t have to cut these wires, as the wiring is the same as the Japanese market FD’s. The only
reason for this modification is making US wiring harnesses similar to Japanese harnesses. There are different methods for accomplishing this. You can either simply cut the 4 wires on the stock wiring harness and tape the ends up, cut the wires and splice an electrical connector onto the loose ends so they can be quickly re-attached, pull the pins out of the wiring harness\' connector, or break the pins off on the PowerFC itself.
Personally, I\'m not a fan of breaking the pins off - it\'s too easy to harm something else or break the wrong pin off. Whatever method you choose, make sure to insulate the bare electrical connection so it doesn\'t short out against something else."
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The reason I ask is that if I do... and don\'t. It will run like a bag of crap.
Also... when installing the PFC, did any of you guys adjust the Throttle Body Idle Bleed Screw? Completely close it then open it half a turn to set it? Apparently you should do???
Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
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No, Dont dissable any wiring i\'m pretty sure these relate to cars for the US market, Blitzboy is your man if he reads this,
I adjusted my Air bleed screw as you described,
Good luck Bob
When adjusting your air bleed screw... did you ground terminal 10 of the diagnostic connector? Apparently this needs to be grounded during the adjustment before adjusting the screw on the TB. Otherwise the idle reset won\'t work. Read this on the net. Not sure how true this is.
Where is the diagnostic connector?
Just read dale clarke\'s faq page. You need to remove the intake elbow, screw the idle screw in then back out half turn, refit elbow, dont cut any wires. You only need to cut wires on the us models. Just follow his faq\'s and you will be fine. I did and mine idles and works puuurfect
It\'s not necessary to remove the intake manifold, there is access to the bleed screw, it\'s not easy to see it, to get at it there is a cut out in the intake manifold just in front of the rear lower fixing nut, just above oil filter, from this nut feel forward about 10 mill in towards battery, best felt for with a small screwdriver, all done by feel, you can adjust it with the engine running,
Good luck Bob
OK. UPDATE.
Got the Apexi PFC and Commander installed. Old ECU out. New one secured.
Reconnected battery. Switched ignition on. Initialised all data... I THINK...
Went to ECT - NEXT, Intialise Data - NEXT, Cursor left to YES - NEXT. Turned ignition off and then back on again.
Cranked the engine. Engine started. Let it idle for 10mins. Then turned on rear screen defroster for 10mins. Then the AC on for 10mins.
And think that\'s it. Bit puzzled though as there wasn\'t very much rough idling during this process. Only a fraction to what I thought it would be like. Thought it would be really rough from what i\'ve heard. There was also no confirmation upon entering or completing learning mode on the commander - not sure if there was meant to be.
I then turned off. And now in writing this. I haven\'t taken it for a test drive yet as not sure i\'ve done it right. Seems to idle OK though.
Max water temp reached was 95 degrees and then pondered between 95 and 89 degrees throughout with fans coming into play.
Inlet temp around 64 degrees towards the end.
Injector duty around 4% on idle.
And I THINK knock is displayed as a bar. Never reached a quarter of the screen length I think.
I also forgot to adjust the bleed screw before I began. Is this necessary to do?
Just out of interest... how would I reset the unit and go through the learning mode again? This time I would adjust the bleed screw to make sure.
Any ideas why the idling wasn\'t rough? Only noticeable roughness really was when I turned the aircon on. It rose sharply and then gradually settled down to a lower value.
Sounds about right. I think it depends from car to car how rough the learning can be. It\'s was\'nt rough on mine so nothing to worry about mate. All engines stumble a bit when the air con is first switched on due to the extra load from the compressor, as long as it idles nice with it switched on then i would leave it. Take it out for a nice blast and feel the difference in power, with the cat in place it should be safe to blast it.
good work, let us know how the car runs now..
Quote from: Tiger_kptInitialised all data... I THINK...
Went to ECT - NEXT, Intialise Data - NEXT, Cursor left to YES - NEXT. Turned ignition off and then back on again.
is this necessary to do? The brand new apexi will have been initialised at the factory wouldn\'t it?
I did the idle business, though....
Will it have saved itself?
Dazsir... mine wasn\'t a new unit. Mine was second hand. Nearly new, but used for around a month. Guy bought it for his UK spec AUTOMATIC RX7 FD. They aren\'t compatible with an auto trans though. Trans keeps on slipping.
I just re-set it to be sure thatit was at factory spec when installing on mine.
Am at work now. Drove here. Went for a blast lastnight too. Runs ever so smoothly, more responsive and more powerful. Was a bit hesitant to boost it, but... it loves it! Well chuffed with the unit. Can\'t rate them enough now i\'ve tried them out first hand. Very clever bit of kit.
Anyone know what sort of knock readings I should be getting shown up on the Commander?
60 knock is the highest you ever want to see. More than that possibly = det proper and you will get the flashing red light on the dash.
Anything below 60 is ok, although I wouldn\'t wanna see more than 30ish normally day 2 day.
Good to hear you got the car running well, well done!
The PFC is certainly one of the modifications i have on my wish list later down the line. Just out of interest, after fitting the PFC did your car produce any large puffs of smoke on start up - like it would do if it was clearing itself out?
Hmmm. My Commander doesn\'t display the knock as a number... it displays it as a rising and falling black bar that rises left to right accross the screen. Although that is on the 8 channel mode. Is it displayed differently on another channel format?
Hmmm. No no puffs of smoke really. Only white smoke upon start-up until warm - due to the temperature and weather. Condensation. I think. And hope. lol.
No noticeable puffs of smoke - blue or black. Can only be a good thing I hope.
I dont know if this is any help, but its an extract from the PFC Commander manual..
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/ash2b/ApexiPFCCom.jpg?t=1175161326)
Dont know if thats any help with your knock readings?
Ash
Yeah... I have the bar graph display. So how can I convert this into a numerical value so that I know it isn\'t going above 60 and preferably under 30? Is there a seperate function on the PFC Commander for this?
Kpt
Have you got the commander manual, in there it shows you how to convert/display numerical values in various display modes. If you havent i can email it to you?
Ash
you can set a peak mode on the commander , I have 4 channel setup with peak enabled, so I have another set of numbers highlighted in black background on the right side of the screen, so I have the bar graph constantly moving but with the peak value in numbers displayed to its right, I see quite high knock values when taking my foot off WOT 90-100, about 30-40s on WOT. On the decell the high numbers are are caused coz my car is extremley noisey due to the bridge port and straight through exhaust. On Slightly modded twins up to 60 value knock is passable, but this value is not gospel do not use it to tune, actual real knock your engine wouldnt survive too long
Excellent on fitting :) Maybe I\'ll get mine fitted soon, had one for a year now without fitting!
Just having a read of the manual now at my PC.
What does Peak Hold basically translate to in simple terms? The highest level reached? That is what is displayed until a value out-does that value?
More of a monitoring tool to show the highest value reached in that trace rather than a setting tool which stops the trace from exceeding the peak hold value?
Have managed to change from bar graph to numerical on the knock value. Just don\'t understand what peak hold value is.
Quote from: Tiger_kptJust having a read of the manual now at my PC.
What does Peak Hold basically translate to in simple terms? The highest level reached? That is what is displayed until a value out-does that value?
Yes the highest level reached but of course you can reset this at anypoint in your journey. And yes that value will be displayed until you reset or another value out does that value and that will get displayed, hmm I think i have wrote that correctly haha
Yeah that makes sense. Thanks for that. All makes puuurrrfect sense now. That 300 film BTW is fecking amazing! Brutality at its best.
Right. Had a drive in her and monitored the knock values. Tends to stick around the 5-15 mark. With the odd peak around 32 and the highest I got was 52 - but think that was an anomalous result. No higher than that though.
Sound about right?
I have mine displayed on 4 channel, water temp, air temp, knock and inj duty. When you choose the readouts you want, and have them displayed on the screen, Im not 100% sure but press either up or right on the commander and this gives a peak per journey reading next to the actual real time readings. When you turn the ignition off and back on again, the peak values reset and you start over again.
Yeah knock is what i\'m most worried about. Seems to be staying between 0 and 30, rarely creeping above this apart from the odd spike. Had spikes of 32, 48, 52 and a rather large one at 79.
The 79 knock was when I gave it some stick coming off of the M1 down a slip-road. Could kind of hear the faint knock too at the time.
Is this rather a high reading?
Thinking I will lay off of the gas until I get it properly mapped by Pip at WGT.