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Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Topic started by: interloper393 on March 22, 2007, 08:47:45 PM

Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: interloper393 on March 22, 2007, 08:47:45 PM
Testing the water...
Been chatting to a few guys (Mike and Neil) lol and loving the sound of a 3 rotor FD3, i was planing on putting together a single tub track car but this sounds much more fun :)
So apart from a basic car, what parts would i need to build one:D
Is it as easy as sticking 2 engines together?
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: John Yorke on March 22, 2007, 08:51:28 PM
Quote from: interloper393Testing the water...
Been chatting to a few guys (Mike and Neil) lol and loving the sound of a 3 rotor FD3, i was planing on putting together a single tub track car but this sounds much more fun :)
So apart from a basic car, what parts would i need to build one:D
Is it as easy as sticking 2 engines together?

Nope:confused: make way for deep pockets like £20+k makes one hell of a straight liner, if you want it to do trackdays add another 10-15k race car£££££:eek:
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: shaunwil on March 22, 2007, 08:51:55 PM
The other interesting question to add to this if a money no object then would be what would happen if you used the Racing Beat Aluminum Middle Irons instead of the stock stuff. What weight would a short block 3 rotor 13b ?

Sorry if this seems like a thread hi-jack !

Shaun
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: interloper393 on March 22, 2007, 08:53:00 PM
20k??? you serious?? fdck me lol.. sod that then lol
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: Ricco_04 on March 22, 2007, 08:58:11 PM
I didn\'t think it would be that much untill I seriously looked into it - and then seriously turned and ran the other way! :Giggle

Would be awesome and, as above, wonder what difference in weight there would be with the all ali engine?
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: arrouk on March 22, 2007, 09:13:20 PM
Quote from: shaunwilThe other interesting question to add to this if a money no object then would be what would happen if you used the Racing Beat Aluminum Middle Irons instead of the stock stuff. What weight would a short block 3 rotor 13b ?

Sorry if this seems like a thread hi-jack !

Shaun
a three rotor would be a 20B.lol:cheers

and im sure i have seen on the site that normski\'s car has cost well into the £30k\'s but it would be cool, as an alternative you could just buy a cosmo for way less than an fd ad have a 20B and LOADS of room for HUGE turbos like kev-yorks.:3gears-rh :Hammer

matt
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: antnicuk on March 22, 2007, 09:33:53 PM
Quote from: interloper393So apart from a basic car, what parts would i need to build one:D


Very easy answer  :D


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       MONEY
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: shaunwil on March 22, 2007, 09:50:04 PM
Quote from: arrouka three rotor would be a 20B.lol:cheers

matt

Can\'t you buy modified 13b engines that are a shorter block than the 20b. They arn\'t classed as a 20b (been told off in th past). As for the racing beat question:
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda2.htm .They are lighter than the steel counterpart so maybe the weight distribution isn\'t affected the same in the engines stock position.

I think the amount of cash invested in normski\'s 20b FD is more to do with the car having perfect weight distribution. The 20b is much lower and much further back than the stock postion. This meant everything was custom made for it. A seriously amazing peice of engineering by pip. It was built as a track car with corners in mind, not just a straight line blaster.

Shaun
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: shaunwil on March 22, 2007, 09:51:22 PM
oops, select housings from the menu on the left of the racing beat link :D

Shaun
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: Bulla on March 22, 2007, 10:04:17 PM
Pip and Carl both do these conversions give them a ring and get some figures, best get the overtime in though ! :2eek
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: shaunwil on March 22, 2007, 10:08:17 PM
lots of overtime :Giggle

good link: http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=603867&highlight=3+rotor

http://www.rx7club.com/search.php?searchid=3107023

Shaun
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: shaunwil on March 22, 2007, 10:10:08 PM
also:

http://www.autotechmotorsports.com/

Shaun
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: antnicuk on March 22, 2007, 10:45:50 PM
the short block 3 rotor doesnt run primaries and secondaries like the 20b so not so good for a road car.   They are often P ported.
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: Carl on March 22, 2007, 11:03:00 PM
Short block 3 or 4 rotor can easily be made to run primaries and secondaries.
But the torque smoothness is so good all through the rev range that it is not really necessary.
Regards
Carl
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: interloper393 on March 22, 2007, 11:09:32 PM
Can i phone you tomoz Carl for a chat plz :)
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: Carl on March 22, 2007, 11:12:17 PM
Quote from: interloper393Can i phone you tomoz Carl for a chat plz :)


Sure,
Better be the morning though,as I am away over the weekend from lunch time.
Regards
Carl
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: interloper393 on March 22, 2007, 11:28:54 PM
Whats your number bud, hayward aint it? :)
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: mikeyh on March 23, 2007, 11:29:30 AM
lol looks like the garage will be full
so i take it ur the modding guy im the mechanic and neils the tea lady
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: interloper393 on March 23, 2007, 01:13:11 PM
Quote from: mikeyhso i take it ur the modding guy im the mechanic and neils the tea lady

Sounds like a plan :) gunna phone Carl in a bit and find out the crack :Thumbs-up
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: AtomicRex on March 23, 2007, 01:44:14 PM
Carl is going to build one of these for me next year! :D
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: n4bes on March 24, 2007, 10:45:37 PM
Quote from: mikeyhso i take it ur the modding guy im the mechanic and neils the tea lady

Mikey you slut, still waiting on the tea when I stood and laughed at you changing the downpipe mate.

BIG SINGLE would be better me thinks.....................
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: interloper393 on March 24, 2007, 10:47:23 PM
yeah 3 rotors a no no lol.. but theres another plan :D
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: n4bes on March 24, 2007, 10:53:39 PM
Quote from: interloper393yeah 3 rotors a no no lol.. but theres another plan :D

How cunning is this plan then..........??????????????
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: mikeyh on March 25, 2007, 07:52:00 PM
this is going to be a very cunning plan
just wait and see no one will beleive thieir eyes lol
enough said its now a top secret
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: stuart wizy on March 25, 2007, 09:32:30 PM
Ive seen a few crate motor 20bs for sale in the states with everything needed to drop straight in a cosmo, all ancillarys and even with full loom ready to plug in cosmo ecu for under £5000.
where does the other 15k come from??
Is there a lot of fabbing to do for  different engine mounts, does the fd bellhousing mate up to a cosmo and what other nightmares are involved?
Ive thought of having a bash myself at a conversion but I didnt think it would cost that much!!!
would it be cheaper to import a car already done do you think?
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: antnicuk on March 25, 2007, 09:38:08 PM
a standard cosmo hasnt got much bhp than an fd, no point putting a stock one in.  You need ecu, turbo, exhaust manifold, custom rad, intercooler, fuel system.  Obviously you could do it a bit cheaper yourself but it still ads up
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: interloper393 on March 25, 2007, 09:42:05 PM
does a 3 rotor n/a not produce around 400bhp?
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: antnicuk on March 25, 2007, 09:58:57 PM
i\'m sure it can but not in stock form from mazda,  IIRC a stock cosmo runs around 270 - 280 fwhp but more torque than a 13b but i cant remember how much
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: stuart wizy on March 25, 2007, 09:59:22 PM
Quote from: antnicuka standard cosmo hasnt got much bhp than an fd, no point putting a stock one in.  You need ecu, turbo, exhaust manifold, custom rad, intercooler, fuel system.  Obviously you could do it a bit cheaper yourself but it still ads up
got you now mate, I was thinking just a straight forward transplant out of cosmo into fd with everything stock cosmo on the motor, even stock ecu, but like you say no point if they dont produce that much more power.
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: interloper393 on March 25, 2007, 10:00:54 PM
think a ported 3 rotors what im thinking off then lol
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: shaunwil on March 26, 2007, 06:07:50 PM
Im sure kev was saying that the 20b is seriously restricted on the stock cosmo to hold up to the max bhp agreement. If you run a free flowing exhaust system and ecu then you get way more that the stock amount

Shaun
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: antnicuk on March 26, 2007, 08:37:35 PM
Quote from: shaunwilIm sure kev was saying that the 20b is seriously restricted on the stock cosmo to hold up to the max bhp agreement. If you run a free flowing exhaust system and ecu then you get way more that the stock amount

Shaun


very true,  they even run the same exhaust sleeves as an egi but you would really need to run an ecu minimum so you can fuel it accordingly.  If you are going to fit one, port it and fuel it even if you run the stock twins.  You may see 350 - 400 rwhp but you can get that out of an old TII engine.
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: kev-yorks on March 26, 2007, 09:13:44 PM
Right to clear up a few of these thoughts you guys Have. Stu the 20b ecu is much more than a engine ecu if it doesn\'t see the correct response at for example climate control inputs exhaust changeover valve and countless more it will default to limp mode. It has been done twice as far as i\'m aware but is a major wiring nightmare. The Gentlemans agreement in japan was to limit bhp to 300hp the Cosmo was restricted with this in mind but they still failed and most saw about 330hp from the factory. To try and restrict them there is the killer MAF sensor that blocks the intake, exhaust sleeves that close aprox 50% of the exhaust port a very restrictive exhaust system plus the addition of three catalitic converters. To put into context how much power the 20b will develop with very little modification i was running stock exhaust sleeves more or less stock ports and only 0.9 bar to get 476rwhp last year.:3gears-rh
Kevin
Title: 3 Rotor, What would you need :)
Post by: stuart wizy on March 27, 2007, 06:12:53 PM
so in theory you could run stock turbos and stock fueling with a mappable ecu and custom exahust??
thats where the big bucks start coming in ie exahust man,porting, turbo,injectors,fuel rails, downpipes etc etc.
I would spend 5000 on a crate motor and run it stock with an ecu if its possible to get 500 hp.
to do list- radiatior and front mount fabbing, fabbing engine mounts,mounting 20 b on fd bellhousing what else?????
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