Been looking at electric water pumps for the 323 ... just because they neaten things up a bit and I don\'t have a standard pump that fits at the moment either.
However I have seen a fair number of comments on the Davies Craig units failing in service (I know there have been a number of revisions and believe they are now onto the third generation of pumps) However for a similar price you can get a pump made by stewart in the states, which is mostly alluminium in construction and seems to have nothing but praise on it\'s reliability from what I have found. Has anyone used one?
And what are peoples thoughts on running without a thermostat using an electric pump ? Does the car ever get up to running temp properly when just cruising or does switching the pump off have the same effect as the thermostat closing (can\'t see how it can as thermo syphoning will move the water round anyway) and does anyone have experience of running an inline thermostat housing in the top hose line?
Aaaand (this is long post I know) any probs with the bolt on adapter style of connection to totaly remove the water pump housing? Do you end up with flow problems or is there a trick with welding a baffle on the plate or similar?
Between me and my cousin we have had both the early CD pump and the brand new one, with the old electronic thermostate control and the new one. They have certainly improved although i have never heard of one \'failing\' completely.
The new one is on the 20b and works a treat but you must make sure you put the temp probe into the engine as far as you can. The thermostatic controller works quite well unlike the early one which was either on or off. If its just a drag car i would just run the pump with out a stat TBO, but if you want it on the road, the controller works well.
Tims running a big american thing which flows huge amounts of water and he has fab\'d his own thermostate housing and bypass etc.
Sounds like the american thing will be a stewart pump ... thats what I\'ve been looking at, looks a lot better engineered than the DC pump for not a lot more. Was thinking of running it off some ECU Aux outputs (assuming the one I end up with has a few to spare) with an inline stat housing.
It is not just a drag car and I hope it will be road registered and used so I think a stat is a nice idea.
Mine is a Meziere one,55gpm.Still have standard thermostat.Pump runs all the time the ignition is on.I wouldn\'t even try a Craig davies one,don\'t flow anywhere near enough,more suitable for a fish tank!
I\'ve been using the Davies craig for a while and they seem to be a good
unit. If i was doing it again i would just go for the pump and keep the
thermastat. The electronics in my opinion are a waste of money, they
kick in far too late. I\'ve wired a pot into the thermocouple to enable
better adjustment but this means cutting and soldiering wires. Theres no
options or lead.
At this time of year the car stays around 75-85deg and the temp goes
down when sat in traffic. The pump runs 100% from about 70deg. When the
cars pushed it does raise slowly but not drastically.
It takes a good 10mins to get the water to a working temp. I don\'t have
a stock thermostat but i had to modify it to block the hole up behind
and to force water through to the back of the engine !
Shaun
hmmm intersting, I\'d spotted the meziere pumps and again the look like a nice bit of kit but a little more expensive? Nice to see they sell the plates for the rotary specific fitting too, and inline stat housings. I will certainly be looking at one of these in the future I think. The DC one just doesn\'t look right.
well think I have this sorted and I\'ve decided on something a bit different to the norm after reading around and taking a dislike to the design of the DC pump (don\'t think plastic is a good idea for hot water, even the OEM\'s don\'t get it right) So I have ended up with a Stewart EMP made pump @ 55GPM (208lpm is that enough) and will be using a new thermostat housing nicked from a lotus exige type setup .... after looking at the standard cooling system the coolant flows will be along these lines. As with most things, if it doesn\'t work it\'ll come out and be changed until it does.
The dashed lines show secondary or part time flows.
Isn\'t the stewart one made from plastic too ??
http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=E389A&Category_Code=ElectPump
Shaun
yes but the main housing is aluminium (and yes I do look silly ... I presumed as it was anodized all of it was ally ... oh well :Giggle)
Using a dg on mine no issues yet Mike and the new digital controller seems to work a treat.
Kevin
Have you wired up a volt meter to see whats happening with the pump ?? With the controller i wasn\'t completely happy with where the pump was flowing at full tilt.
Shaun
I have to say I love the drag racing one that has the pump built into the rad. Wonder if one of those would fit in the FD ????
Shaun
The old contrtollers had issues Shaun this one seems ok no flow for the first 20degrees then pulses up to just below set temp then alters the voltage to suit temps are rock solid at the moment with the car static and running for up to an hour at a time at various revs while i\'m playing with the Haltec.
Kevin
Cool to hear :D
Would it be ok if i popped up in the next couple of weeks for that rear axle ?
Shaun
No problem at all Shaun
Cool :D
Shaun
I have Davis Craig pump running via the digital controller, same as Kev Gordon\'s. I have found it works well and defaults to running at full power under any fault situations unlike the old controller. I have installed the temp sensor in the rear plate where heater hose exits, as this is the hot spot in the engine.
Hi,
I also have a Davies-Craig electric water pump (110L/min), and the newer digital controller. At the moment I haven\'t got a radiator bypass or a thermostat, so it takes a few miles to get to normal operating temps. The controller does step in to late giving a \'spike\' of up to 220-230F, but once this is over (30secs or so) it operates as normal and the temp stays around 180-200F if I\'m using boost, and 160-170F (too cold!) when I\'m cruising.
I\'m interested in MikeLMR\'s setup, with the inline thermostat housing from a Lotus Exige(!). Mike, please could you give me some details on what you\'re using?
Cheers,
Adrian
PS Yup, I guess it\'s time for me to join MRC as a member...
well it doesn\'t exist in metal yet ... just a pile of parts and a drawing :) the rest of the car is being pretty much built from the ground up so I will get round to the cooling system, radiator ducting etc. at some point :)
I do have all the bits now though ... also found somewhere that does a stat housing for £27-odd (i paid more than that :( )
If you\'re using the digital controller you don\'t need the thermostat. The pump does not run at all until 20 deg below preset temp. You may need to adjust the preset a bit to find a happy medium. Where do you have the sensor placed?
I have the temp sensor for the controller tapped into the thermostat housing I got with my radiator from horsepowerinabox. This housing only provides 1 outlet, so I have no bypass to the radiator. The trouble is when I\'m not using boost the coolant temp drops to about 70C (too low!).
I didn\'t want the water flow restricted by a standard thermostat, seeing as I bought the CG 110L/min pump. This is why I wanted a separate thermostat housing that will not retrict flow when the thermostat itself is open, and also provide a radiator bypass outlet when below stat\'s rated temperature. Is this possible? Mike, where did you find your stat housing parts? £27 is probably cheaper than if i had to buy a standard FD stat housing.
I\'m also overhauling my FD\'s cooling system and I/C, by making my own v-mount. Hopefully I should have it working in a couple of months!
Cheers,
Adrian
http://www.nfauto.co.uk/thermostat_bypass.htm
I have removed water pump/stat housing completely. I also see temps of 70 deg, but have adjusted warm up compensation in the ECU. I have installed the sensor where feed used to go to heater matrix.
QuoteI didn\'t want the water flow restricted by a standard thermostat, seeing as I bought the CG 110L/min pump. This is why I wanted a separate thermostat housing that will not retrict flow when the thermostat itself is open, and also provide a radiator bypass outlet when below stat\'s rated temperature. Is this possible? Mike, where did you find your stat housing parts? £27 is probably cheaper than if i had to buy a standard FD stat housing.
Even with this type of housing you will be restricting flow to rad through the thermostat.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b51/kevnokia/FD3S/021.jpg)
Thanks for the link Mike. Nice photo FD3UK, I see you have a Dragon v-mount (same as me). Is that your radiator bypass pipe under the BOV? Is it always open, or does it close somehow when the engine is up to running temp?
Maybe there\'s a way to open/close a water channel indirectly by a valve or simple mechanism. This way water flow to the radiator would not be restricted.
As I said before the controller adjusts flow of water so no need for radiator bypass.
I am very pleased with dragon V mount, allows for good flow through rad, intercooler and cold air feed to intake.
Coolant system working very well, also using Evans NPGR. The swirl pot allows for expansion without seperate overflow and cap is zero pressure rated. Will have to wait and see how it all fairs through the warmer summer months.
OK FD3UK I can see what you mean about the water pump housing removal in your photo. Do you have any other photos of that area in more detail? I might be tempted to do the same thing. Did you get the pipes (to the housing) made up somewhere, or did you them yourself?
I wish there was a way to keep the water temp at 80+C when just cruising.
The Digital Pump Controller can\'t seem to do this no matter what temp I set it to. I think running at 70C or lower is not ideal, and the engine needs more fuel to compensate (as you said before). Rotaries love to drink fuel (even when tuned right!) so this could be a pain on longer journeys.
I would to still like to try running a system with no thermostat to restrict flow, but a radiator bypass which would work until say 80C, and then close at higher temps.
Advise please, we are looking at a mechnical pump, runs off pulley, fors and againsts?
only way to keep temps up at light load is with a stat, even with the pump off you get the water syphoning round the system due to thermal effects. A thermostat and running the pump during warm up also allows water to circulate around the engine during warm up making the water temp more even through the block. If you don\'t need a stat on a road car ... name one car manufacturer that runs without one? I can think of at least one (BMW) that runs an EWP too.