Hi, im posting this thread to ask if anyone on this forum has used the mazda supplied Peripheral Ported rotor housings ?
If not then i was thinking of making some of my own using the mazda housing as a template.
Anyone ?
Regards
J
if you\'ve not seen this already take a look at this
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144200
apparently the Mazda PPort housing are pretty conservative when it comes to porting.
Paul Yaw has some port timing figures on his website somewhere
ah here it is ...
http://www.yawpower.com/dectech.html
HTH,
Mike
These housings are quite good, but only for a Naturally Aspirated engine - not turbo.
If all the other bits and pieces are right in and around the engine it should be good for 300-320hp.
PP\'s are really quite awesome.
Ah so it looks like a DIY job - excellent i love a challenge !
Yes it is for a turbocharged motor -
i have to mate this to a HKS T51R SPL Ball Bearing turbo as well as a few other parts :)
Im looking to do this as a short e-shaft triple rotor engine i am also designing custom side plates because i will not need them if im running pp ports :D
This is near identical a project as chris who frequents this list on occassion. He is building a PP 3 rotor short crank from Bruce/Bell components I *think*, including I believe custom housings. I vaguely recall he may even be using a T51 (not HKS though). Actually no, I think it was some thing custom spec\'d??
I think he must be well into the project by now.
Chris, tell us all your secrets and give us an update if you\'re out there!!?!
Jason - start saving for that crank and all! Sounds like this project of yours has gotten a little out of hand bud!
Well the car is for \'drag\' racing and some circuit racing.
Im looking for 800BHP + hence the \'larger\' turbo.
I have just sold my evo 7 to fund this project and i have about 25K to spend on an engine, clutch and gearbox.
Im very good with tools and that porting job on the rx7club seems \'simple\' enough and will hopefully give me the power i require.
The car would be nice if it was streetable - maybe i can get away with stuffing some cats in there for the MOT then taking them back out again afterwards ?
J
Jason,
Have a chat to Allistair of //www.evil7.com
If you have 800hp and intend to run it on slicks for the drags you will need a bigger/better differential etc. a gearbox to handle that sort of power will also be big £££\'s.
800hp is really serious hp, it is a lever higher than many people have achieved (especially in the UK) - and it would only be with lots and lots of development/money (unless you go to someone who has done it already).
The engine block will be expensive, for example if you run Ianetti seals (which you really should) you will need brand new rotor housings - which also can\'t be ruined during the porting process.
Your inlet plenum will have to be custom with appropriate throttle bodies.
ECU will have to be decent also.
Not trying to put you off, but to do it right it will cost much more than £25K if you are including drivline/inlet/ECU/ etc. etc.
Other than that - sounds awsome :)
Ahhh - but what a project - a sub 10 second car !
Class :)
Dont worry the 24K is just for the engine -
The other bits like dog leg boxes - triple plate clutches etc will be sorted at a later dat when the engine is finished :)
J
I have a triple plate clutch and some other bits and bobs that you may need.
I have also just been offered a 860 bhp 20B engine, form Japan.
Ross@dragonperformance.co.uk
BOOOOOGER may i pry as to how much such an engine wood set you back?
Si (greedy way too early (http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/constrector/eatchicken.gif))
the usual price :) (http://www.greenparty.org.uk/gla2000/images/armleg.jpg)
(http://www.smilies.okipages.com/s/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif)
QuoteOriginally posted by DRAGON
I have also just been offered a 860 bhp 20B engine, form Japan.
What does that mean exactly?
Block? Long motor? Complete package with management? Whats it come with, and whats it going for? And what use has it seen...
Take it from me, buy one ready built, at least you know when you wind it up for the first time your not going to have 2 grands worth of Apex\'s flying out of your Exhaust.
I\'m not Paranoid!! Honist!!
When you look into the Periphral style of porting properly you\'ll find there aint many people that will recomend it, this is due to balance you must obtine between the Intake and exhaust pressures off boost, it will take alot of time to get it right if you want it Drivable.
At the end of the Day if you have any idea of driving it on the road (Like me) you need to do alot of home work and maybe even build a 13b P/P first before you take the Plunge.
Chris
P.S. Nice Turbo but a bit Small ;)
BTW, the Mazda P/P Housings are as radical as i\'ve seen and would not use them with a Turbo.
If you fancy a NA Triple then there\'s a set on the US E-Bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46098&item=2451857481
Chris
Good to here from you mate! Hows the motor going?? I forget what turbo you went for in the end, it was a big custom spec\'d Garrett BB wasnt it?
Hope its coming along nicely mate....
QuoteOriginally posted by Grizzly
BTW, the Mazda P/P Housings are as radical as i\'ve seen and would not use them with a Turbo.
If you fancy a NA Triple then there\'s a set on the US E-Bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46098&item=2451857481
Chris
This looks like only one housing to me.
I have peripheral port housings and would be happy to show anyone who would like to see what they look like.
On a turbo engine there is no real advantage in running a peripheral port because you can still achieve the same if not better volumetric efficiency with side ports.
That is not to say that I would not build one on a multi rotor engine because if it is done as a short blocked engine then the side ports for each rotor would not be equal.In this case then I would build a peripheral port turbo engine.
Kind regards
Carl
Carl, as regards the Housings on E-Bay i know the guy and there is Three for sale.
Rich, i have changed my mind a few times since we last spoke, i have now gone with Three Turbo\'s on a equal lenth Manifold (That i\'ve personaly made ;) ) i have also ditched the IC and am thinking of using a Charge cooler as well as water/Meth injection.
Of course you all know why P/P is better than the Side ports on a Short block Triple, i had a 20b but the weight advantage/Part availability gained from the Custom is worth the messing about.
Chris
Blimey, a plumbers nightmare! Brave man.
HAve you looked into charge coolers at all yet? PWR ones that Abel used on his 20B FD are quite nice.
Get it up and running then mate :)
I have spoken to Pace about a custom 3-1 Cooler.
Hows yours coming along?
Chris
Get plenty of views on Pace products/service before u commit mate, I\'m sure they are able but there\'s been a few bad things said of them over the last couple of years I seem to recall...
Mine will be done \'soon\', honest :)
Ok, I\'ll have a look into PWR
Chris
I\'ve got a Pace charge cooler on my MX-5 - it\'s only been back to them twice. Others have been less fortunate.
I believe their newer stuff uses higher grade and thicker alluminium, but early production stuff - eek.
Having said that, the original prototype of the MX-5 IC (for a Jackson Racinf M45 SC) is still going strong with no problems we know of, so perhaps for a one off they may be good.
my rad in the yellow rx is pace, and has never been a problem in a year of quite hard driving, never over heated.
Doesnt take many failures to get a bad name in cooling I shouldnt have thought...
Chris, I have a pic of Abels twin-PWR barrel, twin-turbo drag 20B setup in an issue of Zoom or FFs a while back if u wanna take a look. Also, if u wanna contact PWR gimme a shout. I\'ve dealt with their operations manager recently. They are very nice to deal with.
You putting it in the FC or FD have u decided? do you have a radiator sorted yet? I was thinking of getting some thing made with a Griffin core having read a few things on the variuos 20B lists about the likes of Koyo, Fluidyne etc...
I should point out all the problems I know of with the MX-5 charger cooler are with the actual cooer box itself cracking, adn not the radiator part of it.
Thats alright then! :D :(
Do you have any pics of your \'5\'s install? is your cooler engine bay mounted or??
Rich, I think it will be going in my Fc for the simple reason there is more space and no one seems to tune FC\'s ;)
Do PWR have a web page or somthing i can read up on?
Cheers
Chris
Website is http://www.pwr.com.au but there isnt much info there really...
Thought u might go 4 the FC :) There\'s an interesting old RE-A FC sat about in NZ atm thats just making an appearance on the NZ FD list. Very interesting proposition, hate to think what it might go 4 tho :(
QuoteOriginally posted by 20B_boy
Thats alright then! :D :(
Do you have any pics of your \'5\'s install? is your cooler engine bay mounted or??
Got to swap out my crappy Magnecour KV85 HT leads tomorrow - will take a photo or two at the same time. Charge-cooler is right at the front with some bits (radiator and water pot) hidden in the front zone.
Rich, Is it for sale or just been Built? (NZ Second gen)
Chris
Top down photo. The radiator you see is actually the charge-cooler one in front of the main radiator - it\'s half height.
1. Water bottle - was going to show this with the engine running to show the water circulating, but it\'s corroded shut and needs some one stronger than me to open it - note I do use anti-freeze as well in it.
2. Charge Cooler body - bottom plate you can see was the second repair Pace performed on it.
3. Cross over pipe from blower
4. Water pump part of the set-up
5. Where the radiator part is
QuoteOriginally posted by Grizzly
Rich, Is it for sale or just been Built? (NZ Second gen)
Chris
Not sure if its for sale, its not new, far from it. I think Pikes Peek was mentioned but that may have been in another thread - any one know if RE-A ever did PP or considered it?? Its been built a few years.
Cheers Gary, so how well does it perform? what intakes did/do u get?
What dimension roughly are the rad and cooler - cant really seen enough of either to determine all dimensions...what did the kit (presume it was a kit?) cost if you dont mind?
Hi Guys,
to give some idea of how a peripheral port engine goes the 99 Option speed challenge rx7 in NZ was 13b peripheral turbo.
They went through 5, yes 5 engines that week!!
This was the red RX7 from Japan.
Kind regards
Carl
20B_boy,
As far as I can tell it performs well, but I bought my entire SC kit second hand, and others had previously done the research, discarding WI for some form of intercooling. I think the Charge-cooler route was taken because it is the only kit available in the UK without stripping trashed Mitsu Starions (which the UK bespoke turbo boys tend to go for).
The radiator is about half the height of the main radiator and the same width as the aircon unit is has to replace (using the same mounts).
Not sure how easilly it could be moved to a RX-7. Presently they cost £590 for the kit. Pace (http://www.paceproducts.co.uk/) could probably create a bespoke one with little trouble.
On the \'5, others have found that it reduces the level of boost on the engine by 2 psi, but increases power by about 10 BHP (remember stock pre-94 MX-5 only had 116 BHP to start with).
PWR kit for the FD isnt much more than that. It uses a 10" x 6" barrel-shaped charger. Looks mint :)
Rich, I think i know the FC your talking about (The 4x4 20b Pikes challenge car)
Chris
Rich, Yes RE-A have been using and Racing P/P\'s for years, the 4x4 was a 600bhp 20b but there current racer is a Na 20b p/p.
I thing the reason for the Red Scoot car having a few problems was how close to the limit it had been tuned on a power Fc and a P/P (the too dont mix)
Chris
QuoteOriginally posted by Grizzly
Rich, I think i know the FC your talking about (The 4x4 20b Pikes challenge car)
Chris
Yep, that it, 4x4 20B :) Now that would be interesting...
I did try to Buy that car, it was sat in RE-A with no engine in in a bit of a sorry state but they wanted to much for it.
I have some more pictures of it somwhere (i\'ll have a look for them quite a long time ago though), but it was a realy odd set up, the engine was set realy far back and it had a space frame ft end.
Chris
Cool, sounds interesting. Its deffo in NZ now so I guess some one coughed up for it. How much was it going for way back whenever if u dont mind me asking? Do you know what kind of 4x4 setup its got?
Thats what you want, engine as far back as poss. I think that Revolution moved there 13bre engine further back in their FD.
It was quite cleverly done, It is possably the most Modified Fc i\'ve seen but there is a guy in the US who has also built one for hill climbs.
As for the Running gear in the Re car, i dont know alot about it. What i do know is it had a seprate Transfer box that was fitted behind the Gear box which drove the ft wheels, the Engine had a Dry sump which gave clearance for the extra prop shaft and the diff.
There should be alot of Pics on the Net of it as it was the No1 Re Car for quite along time before the FD came about.
Chris
Sorry for the Change subject but somthing of intrest if you havn\'t seen it already
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6327&item=2453482114
Chris
That FD is just perfect :cool I think this just goes to show that LESS is more. Stunning !