Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => I. C. E. & Electrical => Topic started by: RemarkLima on January 26, 2007, 07:21:30 PM

Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on January 26, 2007, 07:21:30 PM
So, go to Halfrauds, or even Maplin (£30 I think!)

Buy a jump starter pack... Up to 400 CCA but only 17ah... 4 screws later and you\'ll have the below:

Now, if you\'re not going to use the car every day then get it on a battery conditioner / solar charger ;)

Also, they\'re gel type batteries, 100% sealed so if you\'re going to put one inside the passenger compartment then it\'s a good thing to use one of these :Thumbsup!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: GaseJo on January 26, 2007, 08:13:19 PM
Hi is this small enough to fit inside the bin behind the passenger seat?

Cheers Garith.
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on January 26, 2007, 08:20:43 PM
Guess it should do, it\'s very small! Only about 10cm wide x 20 cm long x ~17cm high... I\'ve put it back together now but the halfrauds one is 20ah and the whole unit is about 10kg and the maplin is 17ah... So very light really!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Brett Single on January 27, 2007, 01:35:36 PM
HEY!!!!
TOP FIND!!!!!!!:yes :yes :yes
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on January 27, 2007, 02:25:06 PM
No worries :)

Just measured it properly and it\'s:

18cm wide

17cm high

just over 7cm deep

So pretty small! And as a jump pack it started my race car without any troubles... And that was with a battery that was flat as apancake :D
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: allstaruk on January 27, 2007, 02:46:12 PM
Its basically I bike battery by the looks of it,

A
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Kash_ on January 27, 2007, 03:02:33 PM
good find... I might just have to get one of these
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Initial-D on January 28, 2007, 06:14:44 PM
So its def only 7cm deep? And only 30 pounds!?

Wow thats great and better than the other bits I was shopping for at 80 pounds plus!!

Odessey PC680MJ
16Ah 220CCA 186x81x172 680A

Red Top 25
16Ah ?CCA 182x77x168  680A
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on January 28, 2007, 10:22:30 PM
I think we\'d need to check 100% the specs of the battery ;)

But from looking around I\'ve found the exact battery in the Halfrauds one:
http://www.sunnyway-battery.com/Pro_Info.asp?ID=1

And the PDF datasheet here:
http://www.sunnyway-battery.com/Pro_Img/2005123116284874871.pdf

But can\'t find a max amp output of definate CCA... I\'ll send them an email and see if I can get definate info.
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Initial-D on January 28, 2007, 11:07:12 PM
Well everything else appears to be good, I can\'t believe you found that battery in that huge list!!! I really hope its a good\' un as it\'d save us all a fortune on batterys!!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on January 28, 2007, 11:10:42 PM
Heh heh, just done a CTRL + F ;)

And got all the name off the battery inside the case :D

Hopefully will get some answers as I\'ve sent them an email! Will keep you posted!!!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Initial-D on February 03, 2007, 12:55:28 PM
Any news on the battery? Eager to know if its alright!

Why not wire up your one to test it!! ;)
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on February 03, 2007, 02:05:55 PM
Well I meailed them... And got some confusing responses, their Engrish was obviosuly much, much better than my Cantonese!

But they said they use them for their cars over there, but didn\'t have any CCA rating, said they could find out but I\'ve not heard anything back...

I think I will just wire mine up and hope it doesn\'t flood the engine ;)

I\'ll probably do it tomorrow morning and let you know!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Initial-D on February 03, 2007, 02:24:21 PM
Shame about the response but it\'d be great if you could wire it up and let us know. I\'m sure if its designed to be a starter kit it\'d work on the FD!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on February 03, 2007, 03:11:04 PM
It should be OK but my only concern is that it\'s a booster IYSWIM ;)

Still, I can\'t figure out if the 13B needs the CCA of a 1.3 or a 2.6! But at least it\'s low compression rotors so shouldn\'t need as much... But I\'ll find out 100% tomorrow :D
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on February 05, 2007, 02:16:15 PM
God damned safety!!! I couldn\'t just clip the jumpers onto the battery wires, I\'ll have to take it all apart before I can... So didn\'t get a chance to do it before I had to go out.

But I\'ll try and get a chance this week... Or a more definitive answer.

Does anyone know if a 13b counts as a 1.3 or 2.6 in terms of cranking power required?
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: nikp on February 05, 2007, 02:57:45 PM
Quote from: RemarkLimaDoes anyone know if a 13b counts as a 1.3 or 2.6 in terms of cranking power required?

Dunno about that, but if you\'re engine is in good nick, then the engine doesn\'t needed to be cranked very quickly for it to start.
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Jono FD3 on February 05, 2007, 04:22:18 PM
Why do I have a feeling that halfords are going to be selling loads of these over the next few months???

Good find fella!!!

Jono
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: D1 WTF on February 05, 2007, 04:49:39 PM
the 2.6 figure is one that insurance and dvla magic\'d out of the sky.  it has no relation to our engines, unless you have 2.  

the fact that a rotary engines puts out nearly 3 times the power of a piston of simular litreage (cool word eh) now that is the question.
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on February 05, 2007, 05:22:32 PM
Well, the whole 1.3 / 2.6 thing I have totally worked out, really simple.

A 13b has the power out of a 2.6...

...But the torque of a 1.3 ;)

But my question is more for how much inertial mass does the battery need to spin? The same as a 1.3 (easy), or the bigger literage (one more use and it\'s a valid word!) of a 2.6???
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Ricco_04 on February 05, 2007, 07:05:53 PM
Well compared to the weight of a piston motor I would GUESS we have more mass?
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Initial-D on February 05, 2007, 11:47:12 PM
Dunno! Just try it lol!! ;)
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: dazsir on February 06, 2007, 08:18:32 AM
My questions would be, is the battery in these starter packs, powerful enough to run all the electrical systems on the car?

I have heard that the red tops, sometimes are not powerful enough to run all the systems, such as lights etc.

What truth is there to this?
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Initial-D on February 06, 2007, 10:01:59 AM
I have no stereo or AC so that\'d lighten the load methinks. Basically if it starts the car, blower and lights all at once without any probs I\'ll be happy.
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Initial-D on February 06, 2007, 10:03:38 AM
Oh whats the trailer like you have up for sale Remarklima?
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on February 06, 2007, 03:35:37 PM
Quote from: Initial-DDunno! Just try it lol!! ;)


LOL! fs. ;) I will then!!!

QuoteMy questions would be, is the battery in these starter packs, powerful enough to run all the electrical systems on the car?

AFAIK once the car is started it\'s really running on the altenator, except maybe at idle where you\'ll need a bit of extra from the battery... The battery is getting charged at 14.4 volts and stabalising the voltage for the rest of the car...

...As long as the car is kept on a trickle charger, it should be OK. Really the small batteries just have a crap amp hour rating (17 - 20 vs. something like 50+) so doesn\'t suffer being sat idle for as long...

...I\'ll try it tonight and see how it goes :D
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on February 06, 2007, 03:37:33 PM
Quote from: Initial-DOh whats the trailer like you have up for sale Remarklima?


It\'s a 4 wheel, all metal jobbie... But really it\'s going with the race car, unless someone buys the race car on it\'s own first!

But the race car is an old Mk1 MR2 with no V5, MOT or anything else so could be made road legal but it\'s a lot of effort, hence the need for the trailer!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Initial-D on February 06, 2007, 04:44:26 PM
Ahh I see!

Been having thoughts of getting a trailor for the car as the traffic kills me coming back from events, not too mention the on/off clutch - so a trailor or a low-loader would be great! May look into renting one for events as that may be even better/cheaper!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on February 06, 2007, 04:52:09 PM
Definately rent one! Unless you\'re going to 10+ events it\'s not worth owning one... Plus I think mine would only just take a FD on it (only "just" managed to fit a Mk2 MR2 on).

Or you can get someone else to do the transport for you ;) Have a word with http://www.kpm.netfirms.com/ and he knows a guy who does transport of cars for a fee!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Initial-D on February 06, 2007, 08:47:54 PM
Cool thanks for that - shall bookmark it!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: 88GT-R on February 06, 2007, 09:11:16 PM
What are your plans for this year, Ben?

John
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Initial-D on February 06, 2007, 10:25:38 PM
Well originally it was time attack but due to the cost its out of my budget this year so trackdays will be the main thing instead! Basically I\'ve stripped the car down and currently its being seam welded and then having a full FIA roll cage put in, along with suspension and bracing mods. Hence why I\'ll have to postpone time attack until next year! At least I can save some cash for decent brakes!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: 88GT-R on February 06, 2007, 10:28:06 PM
I know what you mean...!!

John
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on February 11, 2007, 02:38:12 PM
Right ho, sorry about the delay...


But got it attached properly and it works a treat... It\'s quite mild today so it may struggle a little in the depths of winter but checking the full size battery I have that\'s 510 CCA\'s.

But basically had plenty of poke to turn the engine, Halfrauds are doing a cheaper one (the one I\'ve tried is the grey box 200 or something), which is a yellow box, implies 400 CCA\'s maybe... Or 900... Hard to tell, but either way should work fine!

I\'m about to plumb in a solar trickle charger (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=98358&criteria=solar&doy=11m2) and you\'d probably need something like that to keep the battery topped up if you don\'t drive the car everyday.

HTH and GL!
Mark
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on February 12, 2007, 04:31:37 PM
Further... Just got a confirmation from Halfrauds that it\'s 400 CCA\'s but only for short bursts ;)

Sweet!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: dazsir on February 24, 2007, 02:54:35 PM
Hi guys, following on from Mr Lima, I bought a jump-start pack from Maplins with a 400CCA battery, just fitted mine after a reloaction to the boot, where the ABS computer is.  (N/S rear corner, the batter is wedged in tightly and the earth is taken to the rear washer pump earthing point, which is directly behind the wheel on the rear bulkhead (where the lights attach)

I am also fitting an at-a-glance, battery voltage meter that I stripped from the afore mentioned jump-start pack.
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: Initial-D on February 24, 2007, 05:29:45 PM
We want pictures!!
Sounds great though!
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RobbieRX-7 on February 24, 2007, 05:40:21 PM
I would imagine that if your going down some long dark country roads in the cold and rain with the wipers,heaters,main beam,radio,amplifier etc on, this battery is gonna drain quick and put a lot of strain on the alternator which in turn puts strain on the engine meaning more petrol usage. If the alternator dies a long way from home, the only way your getting home is on a recovery truck. Personally i would feel safer with a normal batery in the boot. At least this way i am not putting abnormal stress on the alternator
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: allstaruk on February 24, 2007, 06:11:50 PM
Your alternator should run everything on the car and still be able to charge the battery, if your out it cold and rain with the wipers,heaters,main beam,radio,amplifier on then then turn off the amplifyers and it\'ll be ok.

If you have a power FC you can have the volts displayed on the commader just to be safe.

Al
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on February 24, 2007, 07:47:39 PM
That\'s what I would have thought as well, it should always run at 14.4v...

And short of a snapped belt, you can normally tell when your altenator is on it\'s way out, battery light flashing at high revs is normally a good indication of it about to die ;)
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: TonyC on February 24, 2007, 08:37:45 PM
Sounds great though if you are running a race car that won\'t need to be started in the cold depths of winter, or run with wipers, lights, heater, stereo.
Very interesting.... :)
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: allstaruk on February 24, 2007, 08:41:42 PM
If you alternator is up to scratch then you will be able to run everything on the car as stock, if you\'ve added some brutal lights or amplifyers then you might get into trouble but otherwise there shouldn\'t be a problem

Can anyone post up exactly what kit these are and what batteries in each as I need to do this.

Alan
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: dazsir on February 25, 2007, 09:19:17 AM
Well the definitive test is here, did as Mr Lima did, fitted it, started really quickly first time in the afternoon.  8:00pm last night "right lets go for a blast" went out drove 25 miles and thought oooh I will stop for petrol, as usual stopped and filled up.  Came to restart the car, nothing!  The battery would only just turn over the car but would not spark into life! Had to get someone to jump start me!
So here is what I am thinking, the battery is 17AH which is its discharge rate, if you are asking it to start the car every hour or so, you are buggered the battery will not have time to recover, lets say the minimum the 7 needs is 100amps to start it (from cold).
I have had experience of the Varley red-tops which are great, light racing batteries, but they cannot handle a large electrical load!

Last night, I had my stereo on, lights and heater.  So there you go, maybe these batteries are no good for out inclement weather!

Bottom line, I am off to Halfrauds, getting a battery, placing it in a wooden box, in the boot.  Most batteries are maintenance free, therefore sealed so should not vent any gases (if they needed topping up, they vent gases as hydrogen, the only way the battery gets that hydrogen back is through the electrolysis of water)

:god
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: RemarkLima on February 25, 2007, 10:37:53 AM
Hi Dazsir,

Well, that is the definitive test! I guess it\'s the cranking that rapidly drains the battery...

But once you had a jump start (i.e. the battery had no power left), you still could run OK with everything on? Meaning that the altenator can handle the load, but you just need enough time to get the battery charged.

Cheers for being more thorough than I ;)
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: allstaruk on February 25, 2007, 11:01:02 AM
Ok that answers a few questions, do you have a power FC what was the voltage on that while you were runnig everything.

So on a seperate not what spec battery will work.

Alan
Title: Small battery - On the cheap!
Post by: dazsir on February 25, 2007, 07:48:34 PM
Err once the car was jumped off, yep the alternator handled the load ok, but for little runs the battery is no good!

Like I said it fired up ok, and sadly no I do not have a PFC YET!

:Santa