Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Topic started by: agroupuk on January 15, 2007, 07:00:22 PM

Title: Coolant cap
Post by: agroupuk on January 15, 2007, 07:00:22 PM
Hi all,

Quick question.

I topped up the coolant in the car about 5 days ago. Been running fine - didnt drive it sunday but went to work this morning.
All ok - no issues with heat (i have a pfc and commander).

Went to the car to go home tonight and started her up. Sounded fine, 5 seconds later coolant light and alarm come on.

Big panic.

Went to tesco\'s in a mates car and bought 5 litres of premixed coolant and then got dropped off back in the car park at work.

Went to put the coolant in and BINGO! no coolant cap.
I am guessing that its blown or come off somehow because I cannot see how I could be driving it for 4 days without the alarm coming on.

Anyway - bottom line is - does anyone have the product code for Mazda to supply another cap? is it a standard cap or do I need something with specific psi rating (or whatever the rating system is lol - newbie that I am)

Any help apreciated as I had to leave the car in the car park and will call into Mazda on the way to work.

Also on refilling the coolant system can I do it just through the coolant cap or do I have to do anything else? I am asking because in pretty much retarded when it comes to engines. (I have a WGT Stainless Steel AST tank if that makes any difference)

Oh and lastly, how much damage can i have done if the coolant buzzer never came on or the pfc showed temp under 85 when i parked her?

Thanks guys

Edd
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: RAW on January 15, 2007, 08:53:18 PM
sounds like the engine will be ok-you did the right thing and sorted it out as soon as the light came on. phone mazda for a replacement cap-but make sure it is the lower pressure one. the original one was 1.3 bar i think but there was a recall at some point in the 90s and they were replaced with a lower one.
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: kermit on January 15, 2007, 09:00:53 PM
Hi Edd, hows the car been?  Like RAW said, you did the right thing by stopping as soon as the buzzer and light came on.  Get a new 0.9 bar cap.  The offical mazda one is best.  Just refill the system from the main filler location.  The AST is self leveling so will sort itself out.

Martin.
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: Warthog on January 15, 2007, 09:01:39 PM
The cap you want is 0.9 ONLY THAT ONE. They recalled the 1.3 cap as it KILLED engines. Make sure you go in and look at there micro fish with them and YOU point out the filler neck cap so they get the correct cap. Or go to a scrapy and get one off a car yourself.
Please do not mess about with this advice your engine is at risk if you do.:Ladys-man
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: Jono FD3 on January 15, 2007, 09:30:10 PM
Mine is running a 0.9 bar cap on the AST tank..... the one on the engine shouldn\'t have a pressure rating as this is just the filling point !!! the water overflow to the expansion tank is part of the AST system!!

Jono
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: RemarkLima on January 15, 2007, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Jono FD3Mine is running a 0.9 bar cap on the AST tank..... the one on the engine shouldn\'t have a pressure rating as this is just the filling point !!! the water overflow to the expansion tank is part of the AST system!!

Jono


I thought it was supposed to be the other way round? A solid cap on the AST and the .9 bar pressure cap on the refill point???
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: Warthog on January 15, 2007, 10:06:00 PM
0.9 bar on the refill point------------end of.:cheers
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: banned advertiser on January 16, 2007, 01:57:53 AM
here
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/New_3rd_gen_engine_perf_tuning.html
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: FD3UK on January 16, 2007, 07:22:37 AM
Just to confirm, Jono is right the .9 pressure cap must be fitted to the AST. The refill point by the alternator is a non pressure cap.


Kev
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: Warthog on January 16, 2007, 09:23:23 AM
Quote from: FD3UKJust to confirm, Jono is right the .9 pressure cap must be fitted to the AST. The refill point by the alternator is a non pressure cap.


Kev

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

The AST is the flat thin cap and is solid. The Filler point is the upright tube with the water pump pully below it and the coolant sensor coming out of the front. That cap is 0.9 and is a pressure cap that you push down, twist and it locks in place.  Common mistake.:Thumbs-up
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: RAW on January 16, 2007, 09:27:36 AM
i have a pressure cap on my ast too-re:works and tvmot have seen it and never said anything-it is as per the diagram ^^^^
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: FD3UK on January 16, 2007, 09:44:40 AM
Sorry John, but you are incorrect. The expansion tank is connected to the AST and the pressure cap allows excess pressure from the cooling system to flow to and from it.


Kev
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: agroupuk on January 16, 2007, 10:03:32 AM
Ok thanks guys

I spoke to Pip at WGT - he confirmed its not the pressure cap - its just a cap :)

Anyhow, had no end of trouble locating one this morning. Had to get a local motor factors to find one. Going to pick it up now for the bargain price of £4.

If it looks dodgy (coz thats cheap) then I will order a different one online I think as the distance to dealers even prepared to look was growing ridiculously (stupid, stupid unhelpful mazda dealers !)

Cheers all (and Kermit - the car is fine hehe - getting HID lights in it tomorrow - if i can move the car)

thanks again

Edd
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: ro284 on January 16, 2007, 10:16:07 AM
QuoteSorry John, but you are incorrect. The expansion tank is connected to the AST and the pressure cap allows excess pressure from the cooling system to flow to and from it.

Kev is right on this one, solid cap on engine filler, Pressure cap on AST, 0.9.
However my Alloy AST came from a very reputable supplier complete with a 1.3 Pressure cap! 2 years ago, no probs, but would you all change it for a 0.9? if it were your car!
Cheers Bob
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: RAW on January 16, 2007, 10:19:19 AM
mine still has a 1.3 cap too-need to get it changed asap.
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: FD3UK on January 16, 2007, 10:24:52 AM
Bob, Mazda did the recall to change to .9 from 1.3 so they must have been problems.

I have converted to Evans NPGR and run zero pressure :)
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: Jono FD3 on January 16, 2007, 10:29:54 AM
To be honest with you guys.... you could run any cap on the filler point as if the coolant pressure exceeds the cap pressure, yes the spring will lift, but the water hasn\'t got anywhere to go aslong as the top seal is sitting on to the filler neck properly!!! My car came with a .9 on both ast and the filler point & I haven\'t had any problems with overheating or loss of water (well only when I fitted my temp gauge!!)

Jono
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: ro284 on January 16, 2007, 10:32:39 AM
Thanks Kev, I will go for a .9 today,
cheers
Bob
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: Laeeq on January 16, 2007, 11:19:45 AM
I\'ve been running 1.3 cap on mine for the past 3 years with no issues, not sure if i change it to 0.9 one...:2Confused
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: agroupuk on January 16, 2007, 11:30:31 AM
Well I picked up the cap and its a sprung cap with 0.9 written on it.

So - confused lol.

think im gonna order one from Pip anyway just to be safe and just use this to get home with lol.

Glad to see I started a lively debate :)

Edd
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: FD3UK on January 16, 2007, 11:43:48 AM
I have attached a snap shot of recall details on coolant system.
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: MillSpeed on January 16, 2007, 03:49:56 PM
Quote from: LaeeqI\'ve been running 1.3 cap on mine for the past 3 years with no issues, not sure if i change it to 0.9 one...:2Confused

If your car\'s been running fine with a 1.3 bar cap then I\'d leave it. All you\'ll do by dropping the pressure of the cap is lower the boiling point of the coolant. You could argue that the higher pressure puts more strain on components in the cooling system but if it hasn\'t been bursting pipes off then you\'re probably ok. This sh*te about the engine running hotter just doesn\'t add up...the cap itself won\'t make any difference to the running temperature of the engine. What it does mean is that if there\'s a problem in the cooling system that causes the coolant temp to rise (e.g. blocked rad or broken water pump), the coolant at 0.9bar will start boiling before the coolant at 1.3bar...in which case I\'d say you were better off having the 1.3bar cap. Another example is the boiling sound a lot of people hear after shut down, which is basically heat soak causing the now stationary coolant to boil. This is not a good thing as it will lead to hot spots developing in the engine. I put a 1.1bar cap on my 7 and it stopped this boiling sound presumably by giving the coolant a slightly higher boiling point....the way I see it, after you shut the engine down, it\'s better to have a slightly hotter engine that\'s uniformly hot (if you get what I mean) than a cooler engine with pockets of boiling coolant and hot-spots.
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: Laeeq on January 16, 2007, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: MillSpeedIf your car\'s been running fine with a 1.3 bar cap then I\'d leave it. All you\'ll do by dropping the pressure of the cap is lower the boiling point of the coolant. You could argue that the higher pressure puts more strain on components in the cooling system but if it hasn\'t been bursting pipes off then you\'re probably ok. This sh*te about the engine running hotter just doesn\'t add up...the cap itself won\'t make any difference to the running temperature of the engine. What it does mean is that if there\'s a problem in the cooling system that causes the coolant temp to rise (e.g. blocked rad or broken water pump), the coolant at 0.9bar will start boiling before the coolant at 1.3bar...in which case I\'d say you were better off having the 1.3bar cap. Another example is the boiling sound a lot of people hear after shut down, which is basically heat soak causing the now stationary coolant to boil. This is not a good thing as it will lead to hot spots developing in the engine. I put a 1.1bar cap on my 7 and it stopped this boiling sound by giving the coolant a slightly higher boiling point.

Yep, thats exactly what i thought.  I also have a colder thrmo, may be that helps too and its been ok as with 1.3 cap.  My water temps, even in hot summers days will never go above 87.
Title: Coolant cap
Post by: MillSpeed on January 16, 2007, 04:23:58 PM
Of course the best solution is to run Evans NPG+ like FD3UK.....low or atmospheric pressure cooling system and coolant that won\'t boil until something like 370 degrees farenheit PLUS the benefits of running waterless coolant in terms of corrosion prevention.