Title: Compression test!!
Post by: ReX 813 on January 12, 2007, 04:12:09 PM
Post by: ReX 813 on January 12, 2007, 04:12:09 PM
Guys what do you make of this....
results for comp test...
front chamber 5.4 5.3 5.2
Rear chamber 5.5 4.5 4.8
im told by the guy i bought the car from, the readings are due to it having
3mm tip seals, but im not so sure!
what do you think?
comments appreciated.
results for comp test...
front chamber 5.4 5.3 5.2
Rear chamber 5.5 4.5 4.8
im told by the guy i bought the car from, the readings are due to it having
3mm tip seals, but im not so sure!
what do you think?
comments appreciated.
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: rmagictastic on January 12, 2007, 04:21:36 PM
Post by: rmagictastic on January 12, 2007, 04:21:36 PM
That is complete and total F****n B******t matey!!!!!
and theyre not fantastic results to be honest either. (sorry)
Who said that??? name and shame bud.
Cheers
Rmaj
and theyre not fantastic results to be honest either. (sorry)
Who said that??? name and shame bud.
Cheers
Rmaj
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: rx7veilside on January 12, 2007, 04:28:50 PM
Post by: rx7veilside on January 12, 2007, 04:28:50 PM
with those readings i am surprised u can start the car when warm ans those figures are rebuild type compression
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Jit on January 12, 2007, 04:37:00 PM
Post by: Jit on January 12, 2007, 04:37:00 PM
at what rpm were those readings? 3mm apex seals can give slightly lower static compression but not that low!
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: ReX 813 on January 12, 2007, 04:42:02 PM
Post by: ReX 813 on January 12, 2007, 04:42:02 PM
This is the situation im in, i paid top dollar for the car, under the impression it has been rebuilt and cared for by a certain specialist, i still have 6months
warrenty left on the car, ive told him of the comp test results and he has basically said its all fine!
which by reading your replies so far is a total blag. :mad:
warrenty left on the car, ive told him of the comp test results and he has basically said its all fine!
which by reading your replies so far is a total blag. :mad:
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: ReX 813 on January 12, 2007, 04:43:26 PM
Post by: ReX 813 on January 12, 2007, 04:43:26 PM
Quote from: one2watchat what rpm were those readings? 3mm apex seals can give slightly lower static compression but not that low!
250rpm mate
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Jit on January 12, 2007, 04:46:53 PM
Post by: Jit on January 12, 2007, 04:46:53 PM
well then those readings are low! 4.5 bar is rebuild time! Like Paul, im surprised it starts when hot! Did the engine builder tell you that those readings were fine? I think its name and shame time as well!
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: ReX 813 on January 12, 2007, 04:54:16 PM
Post by: ReX 813 on January 12, 2007, 04:54:16 PM
yeah, the engine builder said they were fine,
dont wanna name and shame unless i really have to mate, could cause a stir
with the warranty side of things,
just want him to admit theres a fault with it, coz at the momment he doesnt want to know.
dont wanna name and shame unless i really have to mate, could cause a stir
with the warranty side of things,
just want him to admit theres a fault with it, coz at the momment he doesnt want to know.
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: arrouk on January 12, 2007, 05:14:27 PM
Post by: arrouk on January 12, 2007, 05:14:27 PM
id go see the builder, and im sure one of the members close to you or him would go too to discuss this with them. but i was told 8+ bar was excellent 7+ bar was good and 6 bar or less is just a matter of time.
mail me your no. if you want a quick chat.
arrouk@ntlworld.com
matt
mail me your no. if you want a quick chat.
arrouk@ntlworld.com
matt
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: rx7veilside on January 12, 2007, 05:43:06 PM
Post by: rx7veilside on January 12, 2007, 05:43:06 PM
no way are those figures fine u must have trouble starting it when warm..if its under warranty then it needs sorting what does the guy u bought it from say was he a regular on here..which builder are u using as very surprised to hear those figures are fine they are way too low especially for a re built engine and i should know as mine is being put right at the moment as my rebuild was showing average comp for front but crap from the rear
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: mikeyh on January 12, 2007, 05:52:59 PM
Post by: mikeyh on January 12, 2007, 05:52:59 PM
they do seem low to me as well.
i got mine checked by pip and he said mine were 7.1 and 6.9 so i think someones telling u lies just trying to cover thier arse not wanting to do another build
i got mine checked by pip and he said mine were 7.1 and 6.9 so i think someones telling u lies just trying to cover thier arse not wanting to do another build
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: John Yorke on January 12, 2007, 07:44:22 PM
Post by: John Yorke on January 12, 2007, 07:44:22 PM
1st question: is the car running OK?
2: Have you checked the power output [dyno\'ed it]?
3: What has your \'builder\' said to you?
Before you go off into one I would be looking at the above first.
2: Have you checked the power output [dyno\'ed it]?
3: What has your \'builder\' said to you?
Before you go off into one I would be looking at the above first.
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Carl on January 12, 2007, 08:32:09 PM
Post by: Carl on January 12, 2007, 08:32:09 PM
Quote from: John Yorke1st question: is the car running OK?
2: Have you checked the power output [dyno\'ed it]?
3: What has your \'builder\' said to you?
Before you go off into one I would be looking at the above first.
I should have thought that it was obvious that something is wrong with this engine John.
Surely even you can see that.:rolleyes:
Regards
Carl
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: rx7veilside on January 12, 2007, 08:59:49 PM
Post by: rx7veilside on January 12, 2007, 08:59:49 PM
1st question: is the car running OK?
2: Have you checked the power output [dyno\'ed it]?
3: What has your \'builder\' said to you?
1.it cant be running ok with that compression starting must be a nightmare when warm and hard when cold
2.no point having power if u cant start the car
3.the builder whoever it is has told him those figures are fine which as we all know they are terrible comp readings
2: Have you checked the power output [dyno\'ed it]?
3: What has your \'builder\' said to you?
1.it cant be running ok with that compression starting must be a nightmare when warm and hard when cold
2.no point having power if u cant start the car
3.the builder whoever it is has told him those figures are fine which as we all know they are terrible comp readings
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: rmagictastic on January 12, 2007, 09:09:45 PM
Post by: rmagictastic on January 12, 2007, 09:09:45 PM
if i were you i would get another comp test done to double check...
theres a co. in gatwick called superseven who im sure have acomp tester.
rmaj
theres a co. in gatwick called superseven who im sure have acomp tester.
rmaj
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: ReX 813 on January 12, 2007, 10:03:27 PM
Post by: ReX 813 on January 12, 2007, 10:03:27 PM
Tbh, starting it from cold isnt a problem, it can be a bit of grief when its warm though,
those readings are from a mazda dealer in dartford, got it done yesterday coz i wasnt convinced when he told me he had carried out a test and it was all o.k, i would just like him to admit there is a problem with the car and stop fobbing me off with technical crap!
those readings are from a mazda dealer in dartford, got it done yesterday coz i wasnt convinced when he told me he had carried out a test and it was all o.k, i would just like him to admit there is a problem with the car and stop fobbing me off with technical crap!
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: royston1xx on January 12, 2007, 10:14:42 PM
Post by: royston1xx on January 12, 2007, 10:14:42 PM
Quote from: CarlI should have thought that it was obvious that something is wrong with this engine John.
Surely even you can see that.:rolleyes:
Regards
Carl
Oh no, here we go again:Yawn
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: John Yorke on January 12, 2007, 10:15:02 PM
Post by: John Yorke on January 12, 2007, 10:15:02 PM
Quote from: CarlI should have thought that it was obvious that something is wrong with this engine John.
Surely even you can see that.:rolleyes:
Regards
Carl
Normal responce from you eh! my question was quite simple and Rex 813 was good enough to respond, some comp tests AS YOU KNOW if not done correctly or with the correct equipement are likely to give incorrect readings. sheesh you try and put some level of calm to a situation and you get this type of reponse...........do you have a problem with me Carl???????????//
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: kev-yorks on January 12, 2007, 10:39:16 PM
Post by: kev-yorks on January 12, 2007, 10:39:16 PM
Forget about the actual reading John whatever they used for the test it should be giving more or less equal figures across all three lobes on each rotor. The readings on the rear one are far from even and without doubt there\'s a problem there.
Kevin
Kevin
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Carl on January 12, 2007, 10:42:51 PM
Post by: Carl on January 12, 2007, 10:42:51 PM
This car also has high knock readings from another thread on here.
Regards
Carl
Regards
Carl
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: rx7veilside on January 12, 2007, 10:53:34 PM
Post by: rx7veilside on January 12, 2007, 10:53:34 PM
starting from cold shd be ok as the compression is better but with those readings starting from warm must be a nightmare as mine were higher than yours but car was a bastard to start when warm and this was on a very fresh rebuild..that engine will need stripping to find out where it is loosing compression as it is u may even end up flooding it when warm..as a guess it prob starts on one rotor and then gradually catches on the other as opposed to firing on both when it is cold..mine was fine when first starting but when warm it was very hit and miss...ask any unbiased engine builder about those readings and he will tell u the engine will need stripping i am afraid to say.try calling pip at wgt he is other end of the country and ask his opinion of those readings and i guarantee he will tell u the engine will need to e stripped and that will be a very unbiased view as he has nothing to gain as its unlikely u wld travel to him for the work
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: elford_tim on January 12, 2007, 10:57:09 PM
Post by: elford_tim on January 12, 2007, 10:57:09 PM
Quote from: ReX 813Tbh, starting it from cold isnt a problem, it can be a bit of grief when its warm though,
those readings are from a mazda dealer in dartford, got it done yesterday coz i wasnt convinced when he told me he had carried out a test and it was all o.k, i would just like him to admit there is a problem with the car and stop fobbing me off with technical crap!
IMHO, anything below five is definitely not OK. Even five isn\'t, TBH.
250 rpm is a tad low for a compression test in my opinion but that doesn\'t change much. Can you get the Mazda dealer to confirm that these readings aren\'t OK?
I think rx7veilside\'s suggestion of talking to Pip is probably a good one, although Carl pretty much suggested that the numbers aren\'t good. You could get try to get something in writing out of both (or either one) stating that the compression readings you mentioned are too low for a good engine. That should at least show your engine builder that you\'ve done your research...
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Carl on January 12, 2007, 11:01:05 PM
Post by: Carl on January 12, 2007, 11:01:05 PM
250 rpm is the standard at which compression test\'s should be measured according to Mazda.
If the rpm is higher then the reading will be higher.
A proper comp tester for rotaries will adjust the reading to give the figure for what it is at 250 rpm.
Regards
Carl
If the rpm is higher then the reading will be higher.
A proper comp tester for rotaries will adjust the reading to give the figure for what it is at 250 rpm.
Regards
Carl
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: rx7veilside on January 12, 2007, 11:08:04 PM
Post by: rx7veilside on January 12, 2007, 11:08:04 PM
when carl tested mine my figures were higher than this and that was a bitch to start warm so god knows what his must be like trying to start warm
my suggestion is use pip to get a totally unbiased opinion as long as he doesnt mind being used as a sounding post and then go back to the engine builder whoever it is and insist on having the engine stripped and the fault put right as even a novice like me knows those figures are way to low especially on a rebuilt engine..mine is having 3mm tips and carl could prob give a very good idea of what sort of comp readings this engine should be giving .a 6 month old engine giving these readings has a big prob,,wehats it going to read in 10,000 miles high 2,s all round???
my suggestion is use pip to get a totally unbiased opinion as long as he doesnt mind being used as a sounding post and then go back to the engine builder whoever it is and insist on having the engine stripped and the fault put right as even a novice like me knows those figures are way to low especially on a rebuilt engine..mine is having 3mm tips and carl could prob give a very good idea of what sort of comp readings this engine should be giving .a 6 month old engine giving these readings has a big prob,,wehats it going to read in 10,000 miles high 2,s all round???
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: RedRummy on January 13, 2007, 12:28:07 AM
Post by: RedRummy on January 13, 2007, 12:28:07 AM
As an aside, isn\'t it a shame that even the main dealerships aren\'t able to care for cars in their own domain...
Its left to independent workmen. :reallymad
Good job too, or we\'d all be screwed... (Hug your local rotary expert, they\'re gold dust! :Hammer )
I don\'t know much about inner engine workings, but I DO know that uneven and low (sub 6.0-7.0) compression figures "are a bad thing" for the rotary engine.
I feel for ya bud :(
:2Mad :2Mad
Its left to independent workmen. :reallymad
Good job too, or we\'d all be screwed... (Hug your local rotary expert, they\'re gold dust! :Hammer )
I don\'t know much about inner engine workings, but I DO know that uneven and low (sub 6.0-7.0) compression figures "are a bad thing" for the rotary engine.
I feel for ya bud :(
:2Mad :2Mad
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: rx7veilside on January 13, 2007, 07:44:52 AM
Post by: rx7veilside on January 13, 2007, 07:44:52 AM
if the car was showing these symptoms/figures when u bought it then the guy selling has shafted u and the engine builder is now trying to do the same as even novices know these figures are stripdown time as u wont be able to fix low comprression with tearing it apart.its a joke that u are being fobbed off and told that those comp readings are fine.i would be interested to know who has built this engine and claiming that the comp figures are fine.as carl has said the comp test has been done at the right rpm and over all 3 faces so i doubt that getting a second test will achieve anything.as u are getting poor warm starting then that just confirms the low compression.my advice is to contact builder and insist on a rebuild and a new comp test after the rebuild
with mine i decided to bite the bullett and get carl to strip my engine and he is now rebuilding it properley as his engine building is second 2 none
if u only have low comp the cost may not be too bad as u may need just new side or apex seals
i understand fully how gutted u must feel at the moment after being led to blve the engine was new and expected many miles from it.i too felt gutted when my new engine showed low compression
take the car to the engine builder with a witness and ask for him to do the comp test and tell him it is totally unacceptable for a new engine to be showing these readings
as u either have wear on the rotors or housings or ur seals are out of tolerances either way he has warranted the engine and ur engine is without any doubt shagged
for future business choose ur tuner carefully
with mine i decided to bite the bullett and get carl to strip my engine and he is now rebuilding it properley as his engine building is second 2 none
if u only have low comp the cost may not be too bad as u may need just new side or apex seals
i understand fully how gutted u must feel at the moment after being led to blve the engine was new and expected many miles from it.i too felt gutted when my new engine showed low compression
take the car to the engine builder with a witness and ask for him to do the comp test and tell him it is totally unacceptable for a new engine to be showing these readings
as u either have wear on the rotors or housings or ur seals are out of tolerances either way he has warranted the engine and ur engine is without any doubt shagged
for future business choose ur tuner carefully
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: clive on January 13, 2007, 09:46:59 AM
Post by: clive on January 13, 2007, 09:46:59 AM
Quote from: royston1xxQuote from: CarlI should have thought that it was obvious that something is wrong with this engine John.
Surely even you can see that.:rolleyes:
Regards
Carl
Oh no, here we go again:Yawn
Carl and John please keep this thread about what it should be about ( someone in trouble ) and neither of you use it to air your personal grievances against each other.
And yes John, Carl does have a problem with you, and likewise you have a problem with Carl
The whole of the Rotary world knows this without any more adverts from either so please both of you keep this off MRC !!!
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Title: Compression test!!
Post by: peterwolds on January 13, 2007, 10:38:15 AM
Post by: peterwolds on January 13, 2007, 10:38:15 AM
Quote from: ReX 813Guys what do you make of this....Sure looks like you have had your leg lifted,sorry - definately need to go back to builder.
results for comp test...
front chamber 5.4 5.3 5.2
Rear chamber 5.5 4.5 4.8
.
i joined MRC before i bought an RX7,read loads especialy about compression readings & bought a car off a member on here having read about his car postings from day he got it,readings excellent 8.4 all fronts & 8.3 all rears test done by reworx.
good luck
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Ricco_04 on January 13, 2007, 12:57:01 PM
Post by: Ricco_04 on January 13, 2007, 12:57:01 PM
I had my egine compression tested at a Mazda dearler and at a rotary specialist. The Mazda dearler quoted 4.7\'s and the specialist quoted 7.5\'s. I pretty much guarantee that the Mazda probably didnt do the teat anyway.
I have to say that I had nothing but trouble from that dealership and the fact that they said they could import brand new engines so I could buy one of them! :eek So thats why I ghot a second opinion. NOT ALL MAZDA GARAGES ARE LIKE THIS!
The fact that your car is hard to start does suggest that the readings are correct. I was told by a different Mazda garage that they usually rebuild when the engine goes down to 5.5bar compression.
I would take the car back to the dealership and ask for a refund.
I have to say that I had nothing but trouble from that dealership and the fact that they said they could import brand new engines so I could buy one of them! :eek So thats why I ghot a second opinion. NOT ALL MAZDA GARAGES ARE LIKE THIS!
The fact that your car is hard to start does suggest that the readings are correct. I was told by a different Mazda garage that they usually rebuild when the engine goes down to 5.5bar compression.
I would take the car back to the dealership and ask for a refund.
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Ricco_04 on January 13, 2007, 12:58:58 PM
Post by: Ricco_04 on January 13, 2007, 12:58:58 PM
Quote from: ReX 813Rear chamber 5.5 4.5 4.8
2 of those readings are virtually 1 bar lower than the other - could this be damage to one of the Apex seals or the like?
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: elford_tim on January 13, 2007, 02:25:51 PM
Post by: elford_tim on January 13, 2007, 02:25:51 PM
Quote from: Carl250 rpm is the standard at which compression test\'s should be measured according to Mazda.
Carl, thanks for the clarification.
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: elford_tim on January 13, 2007, 02:28:15 PM
Post by: elford_tim on January 13, 2007, 02:28:15 PM
Quote from: Ricco_042 of those readings are virtually 1 bar lower than the other - could this be damage to one of the Apex seals or the like?
I was guessing the same as well - my old Elford had exactly the same and another specialist suggested that this would indeed point at the Apex seal as the culprit.
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: ReX 813 on January 14, 2007, 10:07:13 PM
Post by: ReX 813 on January 14, 2007, 10:07:13 PM
Thanks for the advice and info fellas, it seems obvious ive had the wool pulled over my eyes, ill let you know how i get on...... fingers crossed he does the right thing!
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: TwistedHumour on January 15, 2007, 09:56:14 AM
Post by: TwistedHumour on January 15, 2007, 09:56:14 AM
If he doesnt - its time to name and shame!
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: RedRummy on January 15, 2007, 11:18:17 AM
Post by: RedRummy on January 15, 2007, 11:18:17 AM
too right... this is an expensive business!
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: rx7veilside on January 15, 2007, 01:11:34 PM
Post by: rx7veilside on January 15, 2007, 01:11:34 PM
he should be named and shamed anyway for trying to say those comp reading were fine when even a numpty like me knows thay are well below what is acceptable.this type of behaviour is not acceptable and hardly inspires confidence in people looking to buy a rx when a tuner acts in this way
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: m4drx on January 24, 2007, 01:53:36 AM
Post by: m4drx on January 24, 2007, 01:53:36 AM
any news mate?
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Jovic82 on January 24, 2007, 10:07:08 AM
Post by: Jovic82 on January 24, 2007, 10:07:08 AM
wherea bouts in west sussex are you?
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Travis on January 25, 2007, 02:53:20 AM
Post by: Travis on January 25, 2007, 02:53:20 AM
when a tuner rebuilds an engine do you get shown the compression results before you drive the car away???
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: rx7veilside on January 25, 2007, 07:02:16 AM
Post by: rx7veilside on January 25, 2007, 07:02:16 AM
mine didnt and my numbers wld have shown my problem straight away
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Carl on January 25, 2007, 08:22:51 AM
Post by: Carl on January 25, 2007, 08:22:51 AM
Quote from: Traviswhen a tuner rebuilds an engine do you get shown the compression results before you drive the car away???
If an engine is built well,there should be no need to produce compression test\'s,it is just obvious that the engine is good.
Also it is important that the engine is run in before doing a comp test to get the most accurate result,but the engine should still show good compression when first built anyway.
Regards
Carl
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Travis on January 25, 2007, 11:47:29 AM
Post by: Travis on January 25, 2007, 11:47:29 AM
Quote from: CarlIf an engine is built well,there should be no need to produce compression test\'s,it is just obvious that the engine is good.
Also it is important that the engine is run in before doing a comp test to get the most accurate result,but the engine should still show good compression when first built anyway.
Regards
Carl
Yes but...if you spend 3 or 4k on a rebuild then it would be nice for the rebuilder to show you results once the engine is done,i know id be happy,then if you are getting problems,and you get another compression test done you can compare,and if compression is low you wont be wondering if the compression was low when the engine was first built for some reason.just my opinion.
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Travis on January 25, 2007, 11:49:41 AM
Post by: Travis on January 25, 2007, 11:49:41 AM
By the way Carl im new to this so flame away lol:flamed
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: ReX 813 on January 25, 2007, 01:34:12 PM
Post by: ReX 813 on January 25, 2007, 01:34:12 PM
Quote from: Jovic82wherea bouts in west sussex are you?
Gatwick area mate,
Still havent managed to get in touch with him yet, seems to be hard to get hold of at the mo, hopefully have an update soon.
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: Jovic82 on January 25, 2007, 07:37:52 PM
Post by: Jovic82 on January 25, 2007, 07:37:52 PM
ahhh gatwick, im in crawley down so not that far away! well if you need any help just give us a shout!
cheers
Nick
cheers
Nick
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: ro284 on June 19, 2007, 08:40:09 PM
Post by: ro284 on June 19, 2007, 08:40:09 PM
Any end result to this? anyone know?
cheers Bob
cheers Bob
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: gee1 on June 20, 2007, 11:56:04 AM
Post by: gee1 on June 20, 2007, 11:56:04 AM
He paid for the car to be rebuilt by a different tuner, Iirc he did not want the original builder anywhere near his car again.
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: ro284 on June 20, 2007, 11:57:52 AM
Post by: ro284 on June 20, 2007, 11:57:52 AM
oh right, wonder who the original tuner was then!
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: m4drx on June 20, 2007, 01:00:00 PM
Post by: m4drx on June 20, 2007, 01:00:00 PM
who was the builder?
Title: Compression test!!
Post by: ReX 813 on June 20, 2007, 05:41:40 PM
Post by: ReX 813 on June 20, 2007, 05:41:40 PM
Sorry guys, totally forgot about this thread, the compression ended up as low as 3\'s on the rear chamber, so obviously had no choice but to get a rebuild, which i was p****d off about as i paid so much for the car on the understanding it was all good, but you live and learn, anyway the swine that stung me was nigel at RXheaven, and unfortunatly i had no joy getting anything out of him for the cost of the rebuild, its a good thing he\'s no longer trading IMO saves others from being ripped off.