With the rx7 fund slowing creeping upwards (£1600 after 2 and a half months:Giggle ) thought it would be a good question to ask...
I\'ve got big plans for her (when I do eventually get her!) and was wondering what the general opinion of the board is:
should I a) get a completely stock rex, so i can start from square 1 and go crazy?
or b) get one that has already been modified to a certain extent and build from there?
my personal preference would be a), but im just curious to see what others think benefits/costs of each route would be :cool
cheers
Buy stock, keep it stock. End of story! :D
It\'s the only way the vehicle will hold any value to you.
Just my 2p :)
Let sum1 else loose their bollox on doing mods to the car... U buy it.. And then change the bits u want to suit u.. Its what i did... :Giggle
if that is the root you want to go down then buy one already modded, otherwise you will end up spending liturally £1000\'s to get it to the same level. that way someone has already lost the money for you.
it is nice to start off on a fresh car so you know you have done the whole project, but unless you have loads and loads of wonga i wouldnt, i did. and i think anyone would cry if they knew how much i have spent. and i am by no where finished.
buy one modified then do your own touches on it to make it yours. my last rex i spent 16k including buying the base car. sold it for 8k 9 months later. . my 2p worth.
Agree with everyone else, buy an already modded car, sell the unwanted bits (let me know first though), buy the bits you want and you end up saving a load of cash.
a) definitely costs the most but you know what has been done and how well it\'s been done more than b) i guess.
Rob, we don\'t modify to make the car hold it\'s value ;) It\'s all for fun. I wouldn\'t like to say how much cash my two previous cars had spent on them and I got less back for the second one than it cost to buy when standard!
If you want to save cash do b), if you want to take it slowly and have the cash or can save it then go for a).
buy a modded one with an Apexi ECU and a rebuilt engine done in this country then put your own personalised touches.
No two Rexys are the same
Quote from: robedwards99Buy stock, keep it stock. End of story! :D
It\'s the only way the vehicle will hold any value to you.
Just my 2p :)
Never a truer word spoken :cheers
B, definatley buy a modded one, best bet is to get one with a know history maybe of a forum member or one of the vendors above so you atleast know its been modded properly and sensibly.
There is a huge difference between a well modded rx and a badely modded rx.
A
Quote from: allstaruk... best bet is to get one with a know history maybe of a forum member or one of the vendors above so you atleast know its been modded properly and sensibly.
Thats not neccesarily true at all. :Nono!
Quote from: robedwards99Buy stock, keep it stock. End of story! :D
It\'s the only way the vehicle will hold any value to you.
Just my 2p :)
Quote from: one2watchNever a truer word spoken :cheers
I\'m with these guys. Make the few reliability mods but keep it stock.
Bob
thanx for the replies guys....lots of good points made...
As i said, im not looking 2 purchase \'til next may/june time at the earliest, but think its a good idea to get some info 1st...
At the mo\' my idea is to get one thats already had a rebuild, id rather spend the extra money knowing that im not gonna have to spend £000\'s every month to keep her running. Apart from that, i\'d like to stick with the basics already done...breathing, exhaust, ECU, etc....but as I said i have some crazy plans for her!:3gears-lh If everything goes according to plan career-wise, money shouldnt be a problem, and to be fair im not that concerned with how long it takes to get her just right!!!
thnx again 4 the advice, feel free to add more!!
If you buy a bone stocker for lets say around £2000-3000,and then carry out the mods from that point including a rebuild then at least you know for sure what has been done,and also the car has the mods that you want.
Some people have spent alot of money on their cars with lot\'s of things that are unecessary,then they have lot\'s of redundant componenets that they often sell on foir a loss.
If you as you have said have alot of plans then why not speak to one of the specialist\'s and get a firm price in your head of what it will cost for you to do and stick with a firm plan.
When you buy a modded car,it often has some of the things you want ,but not all,or maybe you have to change things to suit your plans.
The car definitely should not be looked upon as an investment though,whether stock or modded.The amount of fuel cost\'s alone would preclude that!
Regards
Carl
Imho the stock car isnt ideal and is fundamentally flawed. The cooling system is rubbish for instance. Personally the minimum I would want would be a UK mapped Apexi power FC with big radiator. Best bet is to get a single turbo, the twins have the most ridiculous birds nest of piping and make SO much heat. single turbo quickly solves this.
Ant.
Quote from: robedwards99Buy stock, keep it stock. End of story! :D
It\'s the only way the vehicle will hold any value to you.
Just my 2p :)
Sorry don\'t agree, Check out the Distinctive cars at York. to see that, MODed FD\'s can cost loads of dosh. £39000.00 to name but one. :Typing
Quote from: normskiSorry don\'t agree, Check out the Distinctive cars at York. to see that, MODed FD\'s can cost loads of dosh. £39000.00 to name but one. :Typing
I cant be arsed to go to distinctive cars in york or indeed any website, but anyone who actually pays that sum of money for a 90s jap coupe is a mug.
I dont think an FD is ever worth more than 12-13k
Quote from: one2watchI dont think an FD is ever worth more than 12-13k
:2Rolleyes to me something like a spirit R is priceless.
Quote from: one2watchI dont think an FD is ever worth more than 12-13k
I agree, the only exceptions being
untouched Spirit R\'s imo.
I bet Distintive cars have sold loads of FDs for over 20K :rollin That \'drag\' car for £22.5K?!! It has a big single, a ported motor, may be some coilovers and a rear wing. Realistically its probably worth a 1/4 of that in the UK atm. Like half the other cars on there! I didnt check the details for the £60K R33, even is it is a 400R...
Quote from: normskiSorry don\'t agree, Check out the Distinctive cars at York. to see that, MODed FD\'s can cost loads of dosh. £39000.00 to name but one. :Typing
Please note I said hold any value
to you.
I say this as I have absolutely no intention at all even in the back of my mind of selling mine and I expect most owners of stock FD\'s feel the same way.
It seems to me that people who go the modding route tend to get shot of them fairy quickly.... hence they feel no personal value for the car.
I also think given a couple more years there simply won\'t be any stock FD\'s in the country so they will be more valuable. :)
.. I think thats about 4p\'s worth I\'ve given now! :p
Quote from: robedwards99I also think given a couple more years there simply won\'t be any stock FD\'s in the country so they will be more valuable. :)
great minds think alike eh. thats exactly my thinking behind taking mine back to stock! shame it aint got a stock colour though :( stock engine should be good enough i hope though:p :cheers
I know a lot of the 80\'s cars are worth a lot more for a mint standard example now than a modified one, unless it is a fully prepped track car or similar.
My FD is mostly stock at the moment, I plan to do some reliability mods but to keep the original parts in case they need to go back on in future.
Quote from: one2watchgreat minds think alike eh. thats exactly my thinking behind taking mine back to stock! shame it aint got a stock colour though :( stock engine should be good enough i hope though:p :cheers
One small question, with regards your stock engine, why did you take that mint set of stock plates you got from Tim, which were well within manufacturers tollerance and have them lapped? removing all factory hardening?
Quote from: BrambleImho the stock car isnt ideal and is fundamentally flawed. The cooling system is rubbish for instance. Personally the minimum I would want would be a UK mapped Apexi power FC with big radiator. Best bet is to get a single turbo, the twins have the most ridiculous birds nest of piping and make SO much heat. single turbo quickly solves this.
Ant.
I agree with that, there were lots of things I wasn\'t happy with on my stock example - mainly cooling related and overcomplicated setups.
Also, is a modified fd "put back to stock" going to be worth as much as an unfettled stock car?
I\'m actually sitting comfortably on both sides of the fence here :D.
My FC is stock apart from exhaust, downpipe and airfilter, and it\'ll stay that way. In fact, I\'ll even have some resto work done on it next year.
OTOH the "pending" FD will retain its stock appearance with the possible exception of a set of TE37s. Under the bonnet there will be a few upgrades (Power FC, downpipe, hi-flo car, exhaust, uprated SMIC, alloy rad) in the spirit of optimising what\'s there rather than go mental on it.
IMHO unless you\'re looking at keeping an FD for 10-15 years at the very least, retaining its value shouldn\'t enter the equation very much. They\'re still used cars and prices *will* go down until the Fast & Delirious[1] crowd is finished with them.
[1] No offence to anybody here intended, but I think we\'ve all seen people purchase FDs and run them into the ground recently on account of having no clue whatsoever about them.
Personally I have spent a small fortune on getting my car to perform in the way I want it to and Im nearing the end of the Journey. Only a few more things to do. When finished there is NO WAY I am selling it, I will be buried in it rather then give it to someone to have the pleasure in it.
Ive have attained some titles with it which make it worth it, but the biggest prize is having the grin factor when I blow practically everything off the road or Track(well maybe not yet coz I cant drive for sh1t yet :rollin). Its having a car that is unique thats the biggest pleasure.
I dont think I could ever go back to a stock FD after experiancing the power of a highly modded rotary. The only stock FD I would consider is a white Spirit R mmmmmm
Quote from: chrisOne small question, with regards your stock engine, why did you take that mint set of stock plates you got from Tim, which were well within manufacturers tollerance and have them lapped? removing all factory hardening?
Ok as i understand it, theres 2 layers of factory hardening...i have not removed all the factory hardening as you suggest...the first layer hasnt even been removed but having taken advice from numerous sources and having considered everything including what Tim said to me, I decided that they should be ground. There were a couple of marks of stepped wear which i wasnt happy with and I didnt want a seal to catch on them so that was my main thinking. I also gathered that Tims main reasoning for not doing this was that the plates dont come back square with the main bearings. I spoke again to numerous people and decided to send them up to Pip as he assured me that they will come back square. Hardly much of a detraction from stock in my opinion and a lot of well known tuners do this to including Racing Beat who have been around longer than most.
Edit - Having now spoken to Pip, he says that the best plate had only 1.5 thou ground off and the "worst" for want of a better word had 2.5 thou ground off. As I understand it the second layer of factory hardening is 6 thou thick, so ive still got the factory hardening.
Quote from: one2watchOk as i understand it, theres 2 layers of factory hardening...i have not removed all the factory hardening as you suggest...the first layer hasnt even been removed but having taken advice from numerous sources and having considered everything including what Tim said to me, I decided that they should be ground. There were a couple of marks of stepped wear which i wasnt happy with and I didnt want a seal to catch on them so that was my main thinking. I also gathered that Tims main reasoning for not doing this was that the plates dont come back square with the main bearings. I spoke again to numerous people and decided to send them up to Pip as he assured me that they will come back square. Hardly much of a detraction from stock in my opinion and a lot of well known tuners do this to including Racing Beat who have been around longer than most.
Edit - Having now spoken to Pip, he says that the best plate had only 1.5 thou ground off and the "worst" for want of a better word had 2.5 thou ground off. As I understand it the second layer of factory hardening is 6 thou thick, so ive still got the factory hardening.
I can only judge from experience, all engines that I have stripped, or viewed that have or seen stripped have shown very severe oil control ring wear, for very little mileage, This is due to the surface finish. Without comparing the surface finish of your plates I would be suprised if you were able to achieve the finish obtained on a factory mazda plate. IMO It just seems a shame to lap a perfectly good set of mazda plates which fall well within factory tollerances....:3gears-rh
Interesting. By surface finish, i assume you are reffering to smoothness of the finish. I did take this into account when weighing up the pros and cons and did still decide to go ahead with this an also to use brand new oil control rings. In the end, i only lapped them for my peace of mind as i was a bit worried an apex could catch on one of the wear marks (albeit the worst - again for want a of a better word).
Di the wear to the oil control rings youve seen also correlate with the housings that said oil control rings were in contact with? (ie possible gear backing out?)
Quote from: one2watchInteresting. By surface finish, i assume you are reffering to smoothness of the finish. I did take this into account when weighing up the pros and cons and did still decide to go ahead with this an also to use brand new oil control rings. In the end, i only lapped them for my peace of mind as i was a bit worried an apex could catch on one of the wear marks (albeit the worst - again for want a of a better word).
Di the wear to the oil control rings youve seen also correlate with the housings that said oil control rings were in contact with? (ie possible gear backing out?)[/QUOTE
The oil control rings can only be effected by the housings if the housings had shrunk/been crushed, if this was the case, excessive oil control ring wear would be the least of your worries!
Stock mazda plates show very little wear on the oil control rings for well over100k (not that you are likely to see that on a first time round engine in an fd, and assuming a well maintained car) however engines that I have experienced which have been lapped and covered around 10-20k have very severely worn/worn out control rings.
Different lapping companies can achieve different grades of surface finish, and your company if used by pip should be well proven. I can only go on my experience. I would prefer for a standard build engine which is likely to stay in a car for many many years to use plates which I know are going to give the internal components (oil control rings, side seals and apex seals) as little frictional wear as possible :Talking1
any way back on track
if i was having an FD as a daily driver or regularly used on the roads and at shows etc, i would keep it as stock as possible, maybe a rad, air filter and an Apexi. Uprate the pads and then do the body/wheels with what every mods suit your preference, personally i like it subtle.
But saying that, I wouldnt have an RX7 as a daily driver, my rex is for track days and the odd meet and bit of hacking around so i\'ve done all the mods on the mounts and suspension etc to make it go round bends (just gotta learn to drive) and more than doubled the power but i hate driving it on the road unless i\'m gunning it which you just cant do all the time.
I have had lots of RX7\'s for years and they have all been modified.
If you want mods, buy one done already, i never do but thats just me.......
If you have any intention of doing some real modifying (ie major improvements to cooling and power,etc) at all then wait, save extra money and get one that has been well done already. Otherwise you\'ll be spending thousands of your own money that you wouldn\'t have to spend otherwise. If you would rather have a stock car then fair enough, but at the end of the day the stock car is made to a certain budjet and it has very obvious weaknesses that will show up now that it is older. The cooling system is useless and the twin-turbo system is hugely over complicated for an enthusiast to DIY. I don\'t see the point in making things harder for yourself at the beginning if you know you are going to mod it in the future anyway. You know that any Rx7 will benefit from a decent cooling system and maybe a single turbo and definately an Apexi controller so just get one straight off and spend you money on keeping it going.
Something, anything, a car, what ever car! Is only worth what someone is prepaired to pay for it. An Enzo, is only worth £1000.00 if someone wants to sell it, and no one on dear old planet Earth will pay more than 1K . then thats all it\'s worth. I have seen FD\'s sold ( which would normaly sell for 9 to 12k sold for 27K. It\'s not worth it, I here you say. Wrong!!! it was. Someone who bought it for 27K thought it was worth it, and paid it to prove his point. If you know what I mean. SO the fact it was sold for that amount of money proves it was worth 27K. Equaly the poor guy who could not sell his Enzo for 1K, proves it was not worth 1K. And no, the Enzo was just a silly example. before you ask who he is. :bandit
My argument for buying a Stock car and doing any mods yourself is the History. If you intend to keep the car for a number of years you will know its history. Yes it cost you more to complete all the mods yourself but the car will live or die by your own efforts.
If you buy a well modded rebuilt car for say £8K, single turbo, bigger IC and all that, how do you know that in the mileage between rebuild and purchase that the car has been well driven/ maintained. Mis-use and lack of maintenance could well have negated all the work done on the car, and you could be paying out very soon for a rebuild that you have already paid for upfront.
Buying a stock car and taking it as far as you want to go gives you a known history and peace of mind.
Apart from that, mods look good on sales adverts but not everybody mods their cars well and could have done more harm than good.
Bob
A modified one (to your requirements) from Miguel @ Newera Imports
Amen to that! His cars are so well looked after.
I have enjoyed doing the work at my own pace and starting with a nearly stock car.... I picked it up initially for a near steal....
And then have made as many mods as possible to get it to the state it is in now. I\'m close to £60k on this damn thing now......but it is almost finished...and from there on in will stay as is. As for worth it....oh yes!
some people have spent what it costs to buy a brand new 911 on thier cars.. i know which is probably faster and looks more sexy!! and it doesnt have a boxer engine..
thats the thing with these cars.. you cant look at it as something that will make you any money... theres too many being imported and they dont have the status that the evo or the skyline has even tho this is a better car..
dont buy one if your worried about losing money cos if you dont lose it on the value of your car then you will lose it by spending it on the car!!
its about how much its worth to someone.. some people get lucky and get what they consider a very good price for thier car.. someone might lose a whole bunch of cash..
personally i dont think you dont have much choice here.. a standard one nowadays is pretty rare?! i think 80% of us have modified cars... so get one modified half the headache work is usually done and theres enough different kits and specs to accomodate what you was going to do anyway.. save your self the time if anything else.