With all these threads on oil, be it mineral, synthetic, semi-synthetic, man-made, hydrocracked...
What are peoples thoughts on 2-stroke? I\'m using 2-stroke in my freshly rebuilt RX7 with a separate tank and modified pump for rotor seal lubrication as it burns cleanly, and hence using a \'well-known\' semi-synthetic (mineral based).
Am I doing the right thing? Or am I shortening the life of the engine??
Discuss....
Mike.
From experiance the 2 stroke mod works ok but after doing some serious reading up you\'ll find its putting too much in and its hard to turn it down enough, its also easyer to forget to keep it toped up and run it dry.
The best thing to do is run 2 stroke oil in the fuel, this way you can meter the Amount better and becouse of the way it is put into the Chamber in more Vapor type of Form it is a more effective method of providing the seals with some form of Lube (goes every where the Fuel does rather than being scraped of the housing by the center of the Apex)
PreMix is the way to go for good lube of the seals on a high power rotary, warped two sets of seals when relying on the stock OMP, now i have gone premix the car runs a lot smoother and no danger of warping now
I keep being told this, When there is High load on a Powerfull rotary and the Apex\'s are HOT!! your effectivly putting a lot cooler liquid into the center of it? Thats not good if you ask me, it makes one part cool quicker than the other so its bound to warp or Crack?
I run Premix...:cool
Until proven otherwise,I will always run premix.......going on for 14 years now,still no probs..:cool
Premix here.....
Surely if you run premix 2 stroke oil, then you can use a proper full synth oil, as the sump oil is no longer being combusted (the main argument for using mineral right?)?
So you can get all the benefits of running a decent synth for the turbo\'s and everything else, and should also mean the sump oil will remain effective longer... right?
I run premix too.
Quote from: RemarkLimaSurely if you run premix 2 stroke oil, then you can use a proper full synth oil, as the sump oil is no longer being combusted (the main argument for using mineral right?)?
So you can get all the benefits of running a decent synth for the turbo\'s and everything else, and should also mean the sump oil will remain effective longer... right?
veryyyyyy good point!!
Quote from: RemarkLimaSurely if you run premix 2 stroke oil, then you can use a proper full synth oil, as the sump oil is no longer being combusted (the main argument for using mineral right?)?
So you can get all the benefits of running a decent synth for the turbo\'s and everything else, and should also mean the sump oil will remain effective longer... right?
:cheers
And this is what I am doing, which is why I posted - although not running premix. The concern that crops up is around the use of synthetic (man-made) oil and its iteraction with the rubber oil seals, however I would have thought that as these have been replaced (on my engine, and all rebuilt ones out there) the material used is now more oil resistant (as in the RX8)?
I understand the points raised by Grizzly and Blitzboy, and agree strongly that a highly tuned rotary should (in my opinion) run premix, however on a standard or mildly tuned rotary the OMP should be OK to run 2-stroke as you only substituting sump oil for 2-stroke - the delivery is the same.
Mike.
Mike,
There is a thread going on at the moment discussing this exact topic (see below). The thread started off talking about N/A rotors (thread named 13b N/A) but has evolved into a pre-mix/OMP debate. There is a link in the thread to ausrotary.com which describes the exact system you are using with the separate 2 stroke oil tank and modded OMP.
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28919
Cheers
Dom
Well i\'ve always sort of run pre mix :) on my more stock cars (Std ECU or Mild mods) i often put 2 stroke oil in the fuel as well as using the stock OMP. I know using Synthetic 2 stroke oil does\'nt drop your Octaine level and i\'ve never had a problem with it so thats what i do.
Thanks for the link Dom, great thread.
Mike.
Does sounds like an interesting idea, so you can run decent synth in the sump!
I was told my OMP has been modified. I dont know how but if I ever get hold of JayDee i will ask him! Can I run a premix and OMP?
Quote from: stylus350Can I run a premix and OMP?
Yes you can, do a 250 to 1 ratio which is not overkill.
how do you tell if you have an OMP silly question i know
my car has all manner of mods, i find new ones everyday :Hammer
The omp is found in front of the primary turbo oil drain on the block (with lines leading up to the injectors beneath the inlet). More than likely you still have it because your engine would\'ve gone kaput from lack of oil (presuming you dont add 2stroke). Best bet is to take a pic from the turbo area and let someone here tell you.
A fully synthetic 2 stroke is the way to go. I also recommend running a 400:1 mix in conjunction with the standard omp. I run some very special stuff in my RE.....
Hi again. Hope everyone had a nice new year.
I have probably decided to run a premix and OMP if there is no negative effects. I just wanted to know if there were any more sudgestions as to what ratio to run, and if it needs remapping for it. Oh and if any one knows JayDee can you ask him if my OMP is modified? (Tys car).
Thanks.
If you are running premix in the fuel, in conjunction with the omp system, 400:1 is spot on. This equates to 40L petrol : 100ml 2 stroke.
Cheers,
John
Some follow on questions for whoever:
1) Running the premix with OMP - will 400:1 be enough to protect against OMP shortfall / failure ?
2) Is there a way of telling easily (and quickly) if the OMP has failed ? waiting for the engine to die isn\'t really an option :( I want to consider, and whilst I know the OMP has a postion sensor that the ECU reads to check the stepper motor moved (failure only shows up if you read the diag codes off), there is no guarantee the oil got injected (blocked injector) or the feed to the OMP was ok in the first instance. Any ideas greatly received...
I am suspicious of my OMP as it leaks quite badly, so I run premix as a safety measure till I can get the thing removed altogether.
I run 150:1
Quote from: Prof2) Is there a way of telling easily (and quickly) if the OMP has failed ? waiting for the engine to die isn\'t really an option :( I want to consider, and whilst I know the OMP has a postion sensor that the ECU reads to check the stepper motor moved (failure only shows up if you read the diag codes off), there is no guarantee the oil got injected (blocked injector) or the feed to the OMP was ok in the first instance. Any ideas greatly received...
Dunno about the OMP but David @ RoTechniks described to me how they tested my oil injector setup when I complained that my convertible wasn\'t using enough oil. Won\'t post the details here as I only have his explanation and I wouldn\'t want to give out wrong descriptions because I may have misunderstood something. Basically it involves introducing a little bit of air into the oil feed lines - if the OMP is working OK you can see the bubbles moving.
That test seems to have been successful enough to cost me three new oil injectors :(. Wish I\'d run a very mild pre-mix in that car.
Quote from: ProfSome follow on questions for whoever:
1) Running the premix with OMP - will 400:1 be enough to protect against OMP shortfall / failure ?
2) Is there a way of telling easily (and quickly) if the OMP has failed ? waiting for the engine to die isn\'t really an option :( I want to consider, and whilst I know the OMP has a postion sensor that the ECU reads to check the stepper motor moved (failure only shows up if you read the diag codes off), there is no guarantee the oil got injected (blocked injector) or the feed to the OMP was ok in the first instance. Any ideas greatly received...
400:1 won\'t protect the engine from omp failiure, but it will give the engine a barrier should any part of the omp system fail. Might buy the engine time enough for you to realize that oil feed is down.
Seems like a good move to do this anyway then. I will also be running higher than stock power, so unless I can change the oil pressure (Racing Beat have a higher pressure regulator for the sump), I will need to assist the OMP anyway.
Seems visual inspection of the injectors then. :(
Thanks for the replies. I shall nip in to halfrauds this week to see what they stock.
On the \'is my OMP working\' question. If any one has a way to test this that could be made into a sticky I am sure it would be a usefull tool for putting minds at rest.
Also - how easy is it to disconnect the OMP? If its easy then a change to premix would take all the guesswork out of the equation. I can see this becoming a more and more popular route to take.
also, how do people apply this. Im guessing at the petrol station but before or after the fuels gone in.
Quote from: richard cashalso, how do people apply this. Im guessing at the petrol station but before or after the fuels gone in.
I use a lil 500ml bottle,which is marked in increments of 100ml.....so its a matter of oil in,fuel in !!!!:yes :guinness
Quote from: richard cashalso, how do people apply this. Im guessing at the petrol station but before or after the fuels gone in.
Before, so the petrol getting into the tank mixes better with the oil simply due to its movement.
Just arrived here from a synth/mineral debate..At least I now know why WGT dont like synthetics in the sump!
Pre-mix seems like a good insurance plan for my new engine, I\'m going to start at the next fill-up.
Could the choice of mixing oil be all be down to how nice it smells and how economical it is?
Any recommendations?
Quote from: sparkgapJust arrived here from a synth/mineral debate..At least I now know why WGT dont like synthetics in the sump!
Pre-mix seems like a good insurance plan for my new engine, I\'m going to start at the next fill-up.
Could the choice of mixing oil be all be down to how nice it smells and how economical it is?
Any recommendations?
I can see addiction on the horizon......:D
Just a small concern..
If you run pre-mix only, and your car has fuel injection, then there is no oil being fed in when you coast, (in gear , on overrun) with no throttle.
I dont think many people turn on the fuel cut option anyway Martin certainly i don\'t. You are only on overrun for a short time so any residual oil will carry on lubricating, i\'m not sure how long a motor will run for without the oil but none of the high power drag cars run any oil at all so it can\'t be that big an issue for the length of time your talking about. Unless you\'ve a 10 mile down hill section hidden down your way i don\'t know about.:D
Kevin
Just ordered my first batch of KB2T which i.m changing to.
Should be a nice aroma!
Bob