I\'m looking to get a welding kit in the new year - but am not sure what or where I should be looking, or even how much I should be looking at spending...
I was thinking a Mig welder - something like this (http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=100333&ts=71779&id=39699#)
I\'m hoping to use it for bodywork on the first gen, intercooler piping or exhaust stuff - although I do appreciate I\'ve no experience in this, so will see how I get on.
Any hints, tips or guides to the welding equipment I should be looking at?
Cheers
OJ
I\'d say that one\'s underpowered unless you\'d want to weld tinfoil.
As the saying goes - you can produce **** welds with good machines, but producing a good weld with a **** machine is hard work.
Have a look on fleabay for used pro machines - if they\'re looked after they last forever, and as you can get the spares you have a chance of keeping it that way because you can fix up the usual problems with consumables.
The other problem with the cheap consumer stuff is that the duty cycle is very low - heck, it\'s not even mentioned for the machine you linked to. If you\'re welding .8mm (I used to use 1mm for bodywork repairs by the way) on full power at a duty cycle of something like 20%, you\'ll spend 80% of the time making tea to avoid overheating the transformer.
IMHO, you\'d want the following from a welder (and keep in mind that I\'m not a pro and the advice is worth what it cost you):
- Good wire transport. Cheap machines *suck* at this, and jerky transport makes for bad welds
- As many amps as you can squeeze out of a socket; better if you have three-phase.
- Fan-cooled transformer with sufficient headroom
- If it takes big wire spools, that\'s a bonus (most pro machines do) as the wire is a lot cheaper per kg if you\'re buying the bigger spools.
- Make sure that it can take the big BG bottles and not some naff, expensive, single use only ones. But then, no pro machine uses those anyway.
HTH,
T.
Cheers for the reply dude! I got most of it (I promise I will take photo\'s of my first efforts to give everyone a good laugh when I start trying this...)
couple of quick questions:
- Good wire transport. How do I quantify \'Good wire transport\'? is there a standard to look at?
- As many amps as you can squeeze out of a socket; better if you have three-phase. Three-what??
- Fan-cooled transformer with sufficient headroom headroom?
- Make sure that it can take the big BG bottles where would I get these? Do I need special license or securing area to have one of these?
Thanks for your help with this...
OJ
Are these any good as a beginner welder ???
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=010110135&r=2029&g=105
Shaun
Quote from: ArchbishCheers for the reply dude! I got most of it (I promise I will take photo\'s of my first efforts to give everyone a good laugh when I start trying this...)
Heh, I wouldn\'t want to know what my attempts look like at the mo\', haven\'t touched a welder in anger for a few years. But it\'s like bicycling...
Quote from: Archbishcouple of quick questions:
- Good wire transport. How do I quantify \'Good wire transport\'? is there a standard to look at?
That\'s not that easy if you\'re just looking the machine. Basically, what you want is that the wire comes out in one very smooth motion if you press the trigger on the torch, no matter what the wire speed is. And slower is usually harder, especially if the internal feed isn\'t quite up to it. It\'s also influenced by the torch and all that.
Quote from: Archbish- As many amps as you can squeeze out of a socket; better if you have three-phase. Three-what??
It\'s wot you use in a proper workshop. What your home outlet gives you is single phase AC current - three phase is basically three of the blighters, which gives you a lot more power. But if your shed doesn\'t have three-phase you\'ll get robbed both by a sparky and most likely your electricity supplier just to have it installed. And unless you\'re welding a lot and thick metal to boot and want to run something like an industrial lathe, it\'s overkill.
Quote from: Archbish- Fan-cooled transformer with sufficient headroom headroom?
In other words, if you\'re welding, say, 1.5mm steel on your car you don\'t want to have to turn the power (the amps) up to max. The more current flows through the transformer, the hotter it gets and the shorter the duty cycle before you have to pause to let it cool down. So if you\'re welding at max power with the smaller machines you\'ll be drinking a lot of tea.
Mind ewe, that doesn\'t mean that you should get an industrial mig welder that\'s good for welding bridges together either :rollin.
Quote from: Archbish- Make sure that it can take the big BG bottles where would I get these? Do I need special license or securing area to have one of these?
No license required AFAIK. MIG uses an inert gas (that\'s what the \'I\' stands for), which basically doesn\'t react with anything. It\'s there as a shield so the molten metal doesn\'t get in contact with oxygen. That stuff is about as non-flammable as things get and the only danger is that the bottle keels over :Giggle. They\'re actually rather heavy... Oh, and I wouldn\'t be tempted to use plain CO2 from the pub down the road - get proper welding gas, which is usually a CO2/Argon mix.
Quote from: shaunwilAre these any good as a beginner welder ???
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=010110135&r=2029&g=105
I\'d go for something like this instead:
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=010115161&r=2031&g=105
Probably a better buy, even though it\'s a lot more money.
Quote from: ArchbishI was thinking a Mig welder - something like this (http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=100333&ts=71779&id=39699#)
I\'m hoping to use it for bodywork on the first gen, intercooler piping or exhaust stuff - although I do appreciate I\'ve no experience in this, so will see how I get on.
OJ
If you want to weld aluminium, e.g. your intercooler pipework, a MIG welder wont do this......only good for steel. Am i correct Tim?
Shaun, I\'ve been looking at those Clarke welders too. Would be good if anyones got any feedback on them. I imagine they sell a fair few!
Machine Fart Welders aren\'t that good.
If your budget allows go for something like a Kemppi Migger as these are really smart machines.
Quote from: DominicIf you want to weld aluminium, e.g. your intercooler pipework, a MIG welder wont do this......only good for steel. Am i correct Tim?
Ummm :2Confused. I think - and I\'m by no means an expert welder - that you can weld aluminium with the right wire. Oh, and a different shield gas. These guys seem to confirm this opinion:
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/compactmig.asp
Quote from: monkey-fd3sMachine Fart Welders aren\'t that good.
Well, according to some blokes I know who do a lot of bike building they\'re about as good a Snap Off welders. Hence my suggestion of buying a use ex-pro welder from fleabay.
Quote from: monkey-fd3sIf your budget allows go for something like a Kemppi Migger as these are really smart machines.
Indeed.
Snap on welders are Cebora\'s (if you just buy a Cebora you\'ll save some money ;)
I would personaly keep an eye on E-bay, In the welder world you realy get what you pay for.
you would be better buying some thing like this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Snap-On-160-single-phase-mig-welder_W0QQitemZ110068328525QQihZ001QQcategoryZ113743QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Few years old, had a bit of use but you get ALOT!! better value for money. Just stick a med size Bottle on that and your away. (just make sure you get a single phase)
I would defo say get a Mig, Tig\'s a bit like gas welding you can make it realy nice but its not realy for MOT welding, Plus Mig can weld most things if you have the right Wire etc where as a Cheap Tig will not weld alloy and not too hot on anything thicker than 1/8th gauge.
These are good too.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/mig-welder-murex-165-4m-euro-torch-great-machine_W0QQitemZ300061436666QQihZ020QQcategoryZ113743QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I bought one of these over 10 years ago for occasional use in the workshop
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=010114070&r=2030&g=105
It\'s handy to not need to keep gas bottles. People who have used it generally say its easy to get a reasonable weld with this if you are "less skilled", but a proper quality gas mig will give better results if you know what you are doing. This is probably because the flux in the wire is right where you need it, rather than the gas feed which might be less easy to shield the weld with.
It has done anything from small sheet fabrications to the gantry for engine removal at my old house, and still works fine.
Keith
If you want to get a welder that will weld steel and do your alloy bits and bobs then keep an eye on flea bay for an AC/DC single phase Tig welder preferably with a high frequency start.
Tig is a bit trickier to learn but the welds are soooo much nicer, and you will need to run it on Argon for best results.
I have seen some lovely £1000 Tigs go for a few hundred quid
Nick
winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: 88GT-Rwinner!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HEY GRINGO!!! TAKE YOUR STINKING WINNER THREAD STUFF AND GET OFF MY THREAD, YOU RATBAG!
so for basic bodywork (replacing sills, etc), maybe manifold work, and some intercooler piping (see how confident i am before I\'ve even picked up a welder!!! *grin*), what would I be looking at???
It sounds like a mig welder at about £150 off ebay, maybe gasless might be ideal/suitable?
btw - thanks for all the responses guys! Very cool and helpful!
Bish, i would sugggest before you even buy one, get down to your local college and enroll in some welding classes, then you will get a feel of what type of welder is going to suit you best.
If you just go and buy one and have never welded before you are most likely heading for disaster.
Nick
Hey OJ, good to see your sense of humour is as sharp as ever!!
While the MIG machines will weld Aluminum, ensuring you are using the correct roll, you need to be careful what duty cycle you select. This is predominantly because Aluminum gives little sign of melting, and happens very quickly.
Cheers,
John
I have a migmate 150 and whilst it can be a pain in the bum when the wire feed mucks about, bang for buck you cant beat it. It was less than £300 and came with a warrenty, if you are not too sure about what you are looking at then e-bay can be quite confusing. I know also that the little diposable botles are a pain but then if you are not giong to be doing alot of welding a larger bottle is an added expense just sitting there.
top thread!!!! cheers all, merrry christmas, michael.
Realistically, You are better getting some who\'s a Good Tig Welder to Tig up Alloy IC pipes (you will REALLY struggle with a Gasless mig)
As an Example when we weld small think alloy at work with a mig (they don\'t usually have the wire size to weld Castings etc) we have to use different the same Alloy wire as the metal being welded, Diffrent gas and it takes allot more skill.
There is a Massive difference between welding sills on your car and making a leak proof Pipe.
I would say do a bit of reading up on the subject, The only gasless mig i used was only good for Thin gauge (it did\'nt have the Juice for thicker stuff and did\'nt get good penetration), it required more power to get a Nice weld so it was Hotter than a Gas Mig so you got more Distortion, plus the Wire is twice the price of Standard mig wire?
I use Gas Migs quite allot, My Dad has a BOC Welder i bought him a few years ago for £100 of E-bay its not massive but its a Pro welder and its on wheels, he got a half Bottle of Carbon Dioxide of my sister (who runs a Pub) and i\'ve welded all sorts with it (from car Floors to Exhaust manifolds), I don\'t think Gas migs are Designed to be used out side really? they tend to spit and pop a bit because the Gas Shield gets blown away by the wind but that aside i would not be looking at Cheap £100 new Welders, they Jam (have poor linings in the lances), only use the very small Wire rolls, Not got fans in them so the Thermal cut outs play silly buggers and will start to cut out if you use them for long periods.
When it comes down to it you are not going to get the same weld with a £100 mig as with a £1500 mig, so i suggest you keep your eyes open for one that\'s second hand. It also Depends on the space you have because you can buy a Proper Mig Of E-bay for a Couple of Hundred Pounds that is not in the same league as these Clark migs, Just remember you want a Single Phaze welder if you are using it at Home.
You\'ve got me reading up on this topic again !
http://www.thefabricator.com/ArcWelding/ArcWelding_Article.cfm?ID=929
Machine mart are doing a vat free day on the 7th of Jan.........................
Shaun
http://www.thefabricator.com/ArcWelding/ArcWelding_Article.cfm?ID=1170
Shaun
http://www.thefabricator.com/ArcWelding/ArcWelding_Article.cfm?ID=1083
Shaun
can you weld Alloy with an Inverter?
You can weld alloy with either a mig and alloy wire (which is so bloody soft it always snags on the wire feed) or a Tig/inverter that can be switched to AC (DC is for steel etc) also if using an inverter to weld alloy remember to switch over the polarity so the earth cable is plugged into the + positive side and your torch is on - Negative or your tungsten tip will just melt back up the nozzle.
Cool - sounds like some solid help and advice coming through, which I really appreciate! Cheers for it all!!!
One thing I should have mentioned earlier was the comment about evening classes - the reason i can\'t do them is because i start work at about 8am, and typically don\'t get home til about 8:30 in the evening, so the chances of me making evening classes on a regular basis are few and far between...
I appreciate what you say about the intercooler piping - i understand that a lot of the stuff I\'ll want to be doing eventually is a LONG way down the skills line, but I don\'t want to have to replace a welder I bought simply cos I could have got an appropriate one for about another 50 quid!
most colleges offer daytime part-time courses too, try http://www.hotcourses.com for more info !
Shaun
Bish, is there not another member near you or a friend who can weld that could teach you the basics ? believe me, it will make it a lot easier to learn if you have someone knowledgable to show you the basics.
Quote from: NixRX7Bish, is there not another member near you or a friend who can weld that could teach you the basics ? believe me, it will make it a lot easier to learn if you have someone knowledgable to show you the basics.
Probably. I might just get them to demonstrate welding a manifold, some intercooler piping... (ummm, is there anythign else i need...) and probably a couple of other parts to help me learn... *GRIN* My neighbour used to do bodywork and welding and stuff for a living, but he\'s not the most committed kinda guy to helping out. I may just have to force someone with the offer of booze (afterwards) to help me learn.
ANYONE AROUND THE GUILDFORD WAY KNOW HOW TO WELD AND LIKES ALCOHOL???
WINNER!!!
oh hang on, I\'m hijacking my own thread... Bugger.
TBH i personaly have always struggled welding Alloy with a Mig, I\'ve worked in a Body shop for a long time now and i am not bad with a Mig but i would rather old school with a Gas welder than get a Mig to weld Alloy neatly.
As i said before one or two of the guys at work can Mig Alloy but if you don\'t use the correct wire it won\'t stick and will make a right mess. I\'ve had IC pipes done before now and i use a Mig to tack it all in place and get it Fusion welded with a Tig by a Pro.
Aye, welding Alloy is bloody difficult, when anyone asks me what its like then i tell them its like trying to weld two chocolate bars together, which i think is a pretty good description.
Never tried it with a mig tho, always used a Tig and heated the piece up first, plus it also depends on what grade of alloy it is, some welds good somes a pain in the arse.
Nick
What you welding Boss? The one you found a mate has did the welding all the welding on my exhaust manifold with no prob. Now have a snap-on one over priced but i can shove where the sun don\'t shine if it breaks:)