For those who are interested in how the 20B is getting on:
Pip has just completed first set of runs on the Dyno
601.9 BHP
489ft/lbs torque
Although he recons there could be more to come.
6800RPM
Anyway thought you may like to know!
http://www.esnips.com/doc/c087b8e9-80ea-4af2-958a-fd030ea27b5d
Cheers for the info. Figures sound very respectable! :god
stunning in a word
Normski nice figures 601 at the fly, have you got the hub figure so I can add you to our DYNO chart?
I think this is the Hub side of life!
http://www.esnips.com/doc/b70916bd-2682-4ed1-bfc9-1d3e52a0b6c5
its a really nice graph, it would be good to compare it to a 13 b creating that sort of power, also, what boost was it running
Quote from: antnicukits a really nice graph, it would be good to compare it to a 13 b creating that sort of power, also, what boost was it running
A little, under 1 bar I think, I can check! will post info when I get it, but I know it\'s not over 1 bar.
unlikely to be over 1 bar, pip doesnt go there!
cool I will add you to our chart Normski
:2eek .... That figure is only at 6800 rpm... and it\'s still climbing! :god
Well done that Pip....
my god! scary figures!
510bhp @ the hubs at under 1bar and at 6800rpm!! :Thumbsup! Excellent work Pip :god
so where can I get one from?! ;)
Normski, you kick ass !
Quote from: TRex:2eek .... That figure is only at 6800 rpm... and it\'s still climbing! :god
Well done that Pip....
That\'s what I was thinking. 20B\'s - is there anything they cannot do ?:cool :driving
Quote from: ProfThat\'s what I was thinking. 20B\'s - is there anything they cannot do ?:cool :driving
be economical!
And reliable (runs and hides) :flamed
nice one mate bet its a monster of a car imagine this at 1.4 bar :eek:
Quote from: KieronAnd reliable (runs and hides) :flamed
i dont think kev-yorks has had any problems with his.
Quote from: \'M@r{\']510bhp @ the hubs at under 1bar and at 6800rpm!! :Thumbsup! Excellent work Pip :god
so where can I get one from?! ;)
Eh ? where can you get a Pip from you ask ????? :eek:
QuoteAnd reliable (runs and hides) :flamed
In single turbo form its stood up to two years of me abusing it with only a damaged manifold which was caused by excessive lagging not allowing any heat to escape. Prior to that it was only gearboxes i kept killing.
Trust me it didn\'t get nursed at all in that time Throttles arn\'t progressive in my motors there switches!
Kevin
we have a tripple FD and it has been a pain to get right as has Normski\'s from what i gather, but once the R&R has been done i would think they will be as reliable as an FD running the same boost. 5 years ago, there were very few modded FD\'s and virtually no single turbo ones so it was the same back then, (i think Gary G will vouch for that)
Ours (read: my cousins) has been built by us with help from ReWorx and has just had its first tune to 10psi and 7k rpm (435 rwhp), it has been so long getting it right that we dont want to push it anymore until we get the rest of the car sorted incase the worst happens.
Once its been run in and tested (and finished) it will go back for a remap and up the boost.
I would imagine that Pip has been extra conservative in the mapping which is evident from the fact that he only took it to 6700 rpm with the power still climbing.
I feel as more people build tripples the tuning will be taken closer to the edge and we will see a lot more power in exactly the same way FD\'s have done.
It appears at this stage that the power is similar but running .3 - .4 bar less boost than a 13b.
Nice figure!
It may be worth looking into an alcohol injection system Normski. Lots of the US guys are running 24+ psi on their engines with alcohol injection no problems. One guy was running 1 bar at about 490bhp (if i remember correctly) and his injectors were running 85%. He added some alky to the tune and dropped the fuel off and put down a touch over 500 with 50% injector duty and his knock levels dropped something amazing
Seriously, look into it! Howard Coleman on RX7 club i believe is running 500+ hp on twin t04s (yes, twin t04s) with alcohol and 24psi and has been for about 9000 miles now.
Very nice indeed - must be pleased! :guinness
Quote from: antnicuk5 years ago, there were very few modded FD\'s and virtually no single turbo ones so it was the same back then, (i think Gary G will vouch for that)
Yes Ant i can vouch for that,in 2000 when i modded my FD there wasnt any single turbo FD\'s in the UK,i believe i was the first.Getting things done right was a nightmare,i was a test bed then for a few tuning companies which is why it has cost me so much to get where i am (nowhere)
Nice figures Normski, good work!
Chin up Gary, the past is done, sights set on the future mate!!!
Quote from: antnicukOnce its been run in and tested (and finished) it will go back for a remap and up the boost.
Where are you gonna get this done?
Quote from: antnicukOnce its been run in and tested (and finished) it will go back for a remap and up the boost.
Where are you gonna get this done? :)
Quote from: BobfishNice figure!
It may be worth looking into an alcohol injection system Normski. Lots of the US guys are running 24+ psi on their engines with alcohol injection no problems. One guy was running 1 bar at about 490bhp (if i remember correctly) and his injectors were running 85%. He added some alky to the tune and dropped the fuel off and put down a touch over 500 with 50% injector duty and his knock levels dropped something amazing
Seriously, look into it! Howard Coleman on RX7 club i believe is running 500+ hp on twin t04s (yes, twin t04s) with alcohol and 24psi and has been for about 9000 miles now.
I run water and Meth injection system. But boooz, i would drink it before it ever got to the tank.
If you want to drink industrial grade alcohol then be my guest, but im sure itll be much more fun putting it in your car (after all, peaking at 20+psi on the street is much more fun than a trip to A&E)
If you want more info just shout and ill hook you up with a link.
HELLO!!!!! SHOUT!!:driving
LOL !!!!!
Howard and crew are not the first to do this by far. they are running a patchwork fuel system with methanol and very low tunes with a very poor and un reliable set up.
If you really wanna do it properly then wait till next year when the sh1t will hit the fan.
Quote from: sdminusLOL !!!!!
Howard and crew are not the first to do this by far. they are running a patchwork fuel system with methanol and very low tunes with a very poor and un reliable set up.
If you really wanna do it properly then wait till next year when the sh1t will hit the fan.
Im sorry what?!?!:3Confused
what ECU are you running Norm?
Been having a chat with Pip about this, Drunken power hidden tank idea!:cheers
Anway, I do tend to agree with him that yes, we can go down the above road and get stupid power out of her.
BUT!!!! It\'s a road car, build for the road, how much power do you need for road use.??????
As Pip says, She will be be easly capable of running 630-650BHP without taking things too far. (So more Dyno runs to come) If he wanted to push the limits (near the edge of BANG land) it will be on or near 700BHP. So, as he has some magazines doing their thing on the car ( good marketing for him, my name not mentioned.) good. he is going to wind her up a little for the purposes of Dyno sheets. But we will wind in back, to around 570BHP ish as this will be more than enough for killing 98% of most things I will ever come accros. As you alll know, the FD is not the Worlds Heaviest, in fact it\'s quite a lightweight. Most Supras will need to be turning out 675 to 750BHP to match it, along with those Skylines. And I don\'t think I am gonna come accross too many 750 800+ BHP Skylines on the road. Yes there are some out there, but everday reality, is it\'s not likely. ( in fact, you normaly don\'t even see a Skyline) Anyway, No matter how much power you have, (a) you have to get it down and control it, (B) road conditions, traffic, and there is always someone with something faster than me/ you/whoever.
Therefore, I ask, why do I need 750/ 800BHP for a raod FD. I think it would be a great result just keeping something like that in some sort of straight line! It\'s gonna be bad enough as it is.
So he is right, I think. Remember, it\'s built for the road and to use!!!! Thats why, I recon I won\'t be going down that road now. He hopes he has found 3.7 diff, for the rear end. that should help out no end for usability. :2eek
Sounds like you\'re trying to convince yourself there Normski! lol
You can always up it later if 570ish isn\'t quick enough for you! lol
Lets face it, 570 in an FD is floating around 450p/tonne, on the road......... I think you\'ll be more than happy mate:3gears-lh
WOW .. nice conversion and figures . 570 would suit me no end .. but i think like most people .. you will want more power !
Would like to see it out and about .
I think you are right in your comments Norm,
You dont really need over 600hp for road use as you rightly ask can you control it at that figure ????
Running say 550hp will be much more reliable for the 20B rather than pushing it into damage too early which would be a serious waste of money, and we know Pip isn\'t cheap :Hammer
I think the best thing to do is tune it to say 550hp until you are happy with controlling the power then if you must increase it as much as needed :Giggle
Gurj
Yes! I think it\'s all about the balance between power/reliability, and of course making it last a few thousand miles, between killing my wallet AGAIN! I hope the 3.7 diff will make life a little more moderate when driving it too.
At the end of the day mate, Rotary is a passion, keep going till you\'re happy with the with the pull fella, we can sit here typing figures into the forum till the cows come home but the bottom line is you need to feel that special buzz when you hit the loud pedal, too fast and you have no control, too slow and you have thrill, just stop when you get to the ultimate thrill factor mate!!
Quote from: ShyneAt the end of the day mate, Rotary is a passion, keep going till you\'re happy with the with the pull fella, we can sit here typing figures into the forum till the cows come home but the bottom line is you need to feel that special buzz when you hit the loud pedal, too fast and you have no control, too slow and you have thrill, just stop when you get to the ultimate thrill factor mate!!
Can only say one thing about this!!
SPOT ON!!:Laugh