im putting in an intercooler and i was wondering from peoples experience and knowledge, where is the best place for performance. so is it a more direct replacement of old position or would it be better out of the bay behind bumper.
im re buildin shortly and i am stayin with twins and im hopin to get it up to 330-350bhp. i will be street porting,decat, rad, recon turbos, fuel pump and injectors being upped etc etc
theres is plenty more things but for that knid of performance where will it go. inside or out
If your looking at an aftermarket rad, you may aswell do a custom V-Mount, that\'s best for performance so I believe?!!
Jono
V mount, best option for more power, expecially if you keep the car for a long time.
v mount is big money though isnt it. or can i buy a intercooler and rad and then just bolt them in place, hopeful thionkin i know but still a qustion coz im trying to costs down
yes is pretty good money, DRAGON above do a custom one about the best value you will find.
If you are ONLY gonna get intercooler, then go FMIC
If you are only gonna change rad, then get a new rad
but if you planning both in the future, makes pure sense to go vmount, you will get max efficiency and it looks nice and all done in one go. Can\'t fault the logic
You could do what I\'m going to do..... make your own V-mount!!
All you need to do is get the things hanging in the correct positions, seal up the surround so the air has no choice but to go throgh the IC, or rad!!! Ceev the drivers side section of the V open to allow air to your induction kit!!
Jono
Im pulling mine a little more forward to give a bit more room behind.
Im also developing a carbon surround so as to not get any spillage. All air will be forced through a combination of the intercooler, radiator, power steering cooler and oil cooler.
If you need any info on where to get a custom set up then PM me
Quote from: colin777im putting in an intercooler and i was wondering from peoples experience and knowledge, where is the best place for performance. so is it a more direct replacement of old position or would it be better out of the bay behind bumper.
I thought I\'d leave this to the experts but they haven\'t made it very simple so here is my understanding for those who don\'t know.
As I understand it, there\'s three ways to mount intercoolers on the FD
Stock Mounted (SMIC) - where it is as stock. This gets air from the scoop at the top of the grill but AFAIK the air has nowhere to go under the bonnet and it\'s pretty inefficient (hence the need to upgrade either the size of the I/C or the location)
Front Mounted (FMIC) - in the mouth of the grill. The [water] radiator is then restricted as the air has to pass through the I/C to get to it.
V-Mount - This is a custom mount which allows you to mount an intercooler and radiator on a V around the mouth of the grill. The I/C is mounted above the grill, the radiator mounted (inverted) below the grill. The sides of the V are usually covered to force all the air coming through the grill through one of the two radiators (I/C or rad). V-mounts cost £££ but they are the dogs danglies!!! Picture viewed from through the front of the grill:
(http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25320&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1163580631)
Hope this helps!
Andy
P.S. I am aware that there is no actual "grill" in the front bumper of most FD\'s but I couldn\'t think what else to call it :Tongue1 Sorry if this is stating the bleeding obvious - hopefully it will be helpful to someone.
cheers andy
I would either go for an uprated stock mount or a V mount design.
Quote from: andysmeeI thought I\'d leave this to the experts but they haven\'t made it very simple so here is my understanding for those who don\'t know.
As I understand it, there\'s three ways to mount intercoolers on the FD
Stock Mounted (SMIC) - where it is as stock. This gets air from the scoop at the top of the grill but AFAIK the air has nowhere to go under the bonnet and it\'s pretty inefficient (hence the need to upgrade either the size of the I/C or the location)
Front Mounted (FMIC) - in the mouth of the grill. The [water] radiator is then restricted as the air has to pass through the I/C to get to it.
V-Mount - This is a custom mount which allows you to mount an intercooler and radiator on a V around the mouth of the grill. The I/C is mounted above the grill, the radiator mounted (inverted) below the grill. The sides of the V are usually covered to force all the air coming through the grill through one of the two radiators (I/C or rad). V-mounts cost £££ but they are the dogs danglies!!! Picture viewed from through the front of the grill:
(http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25320&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1163580631)
Hope this helps!
Andy
P.S. I am aware that there is no actual "grill" in the front bumper of most FD\'s but I couldn\'t think what else to call it :Tongue1 Sorry if this is stating the bleeding obvious - hopefully it will be helpful to someone.
Hi
...very helpful to me as I just started modding the car, just got Apexi fc fitted, next 2 months I am going to fit dragon\'s de-cat mid pipe ( I already have hks BACK BOX - IT\'S HUGE AND LOUD !!
Your explenation has cleared for me what a v mount stands for..
Regards,
Michaelb
SMIC is crap.
Try going for a drive on a summer\'s day. Park the car, come back to it 15 minutes later and check out this intake temps. How does 65-70 degrees grab you ? (by the balls I should think)
It sits in the hot engine bay on a hot day and heatsoaks. Even if you get an uprated one, it will still do exactly the same things. And even a big one won\'t be very efficient compared to a small Front Mount on a cold day..
cheapy chappy (http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m38867559)
^ ive had no problems with mine
with going with a fmic what about the rad behind, what mods have people done to keep the air into the rad
I think thats just the nature of a front mount, you will never really get round the fact that it sits right in front of the rad.
Nothing, I\'m only running in at the moment but I\'ve found much cooler water temps since I raised it vertically and removed the ac condensor. Some people make ducts to the rad but mine fills the space fully and the fmic doesn\'t cover the entire mouth of the bumper. I get lower water temps when I\'m on the move - never saw lower than 83 before, 79 now when cruising.
it will be a thick koyo rad so that will help too. that good news
Quote from: G@NDY^ ive had no problems with mine
I have. Hated it..
:mad:
SMIC\'s are fine, the Greddy one is very good. It just needs to be positioned and ducted correctly. Intake temps will rise on any IC set-up, when stationary.
Quote from: DRAGONSMIC\'s are fine, the Greddy one is very good. It just needs to be positioned and ducted correctly. Intake temps will rise on any IC set-up, when stationary.
I agree. I even found the stock intercooler did an adequate job of cooling intake temps.
Quote from: DRAGONSMIC\'s are fine, the Greddy one is very good. It just needs to be positioned and ducted correctly. Intake temps will rise on any IC set-up, when stationary.
:flamed
Perhaps mine wasn\'t ducted properly. I found it useless...
Quote from: DRAGONSMIC\'s are fine, the Greddy one is very good. It just needs to be positioned and ducted correctly. Intake temps will rise on any IC set-up, when stationary.
I have an uprated one in standard position with only the little stanard part of ducting going up, is this enough?:3Confused
Quote from: strange_days_uk:flamed
Perhaps mine wasn\'t ducted properly. I found it useless...
I had 70 on the commander before with OE SMIC - 2 mins down the lane it had dropped over 30.
Dont forget where the standard intake temperature sensor sit\'s - it gets badly heatsoaked - an aftermarket sensor in a different position (say plastic elbow) will not heat soak and will read better and will refresh 10x faster and then the temps will look massively different again.
Quote from: Ricco_04Dont forget where the standard intake temperature sensor sit\'s - it gets badly heatsoaked - an aftermarket sensor in a different position (say plastic elbow) will not heat soak and will read better and will refresh 10x faster and then the temps will look massively different again.
Bingo! That\'s exactly why I have a faster reacting sensor that I plan to mount in my plastic elbow. Just got to get round to doing it!
Quote from: nikpBingo! That\'s exactly why I have a faster reacting sensor that I plan to mount in my plastic elbow. Just got to get round to doing it!
:D
Me too - although I havn\'t even looked into it yet! :spank
decided to go smic, found a arc intercooler with hks hardpipes and just bought a koyo rad too.
Quote from: Ricco_04I had 70 on the commander before with OE SMIC - 2 mins down the lane it had dropped over 30.
Dont forget where the standard intake temperature sensor sit\'s - it gets badly heatsoaked - an aftermarket sensor in a different position (say plastic elbow) will not heat soak and will read better and will refresh 10x faster and then the temps will look massively different again.
A very true point, although mine always took ages to come back down to a reasonable temp. Fine in winter I\'m sure..
Yeah totally. The first 20deg goes reasonably quick but who wants to sit at 50deg!
Today with cool weather & no boost it sat happerly at 25. Should soon have a bigger SMIC on and will be interested to see the differences. My choice out of them all would be V mount but dont want to change too drastically (oh and also ££ lol)
hi guys was thinking of changing mine, but do need to get pfc remaped after your done it
Quote from: memskiNothing, I\'m only running in at the moment but I\'ve found much cooler water temps since I raised it vertically and removed the ac condensor. Some people make ducts to the rad but mine fills the space fully and the fmic doesn\'t cover the entire mouth of the bumper. I get lower water temps when I\'m on the move - never saw lower than 83 before, 79 now when cruising.
Just read this and I\'m confused, IIRC the standard rad cap only opens at 85 so how do you get 79 as your water temperature? isn\'t that too low?
Sounds like it\'s overcooling. Check the thermostat - unless you have a cool running thermostat (Which i don\'t see the point of as it means the engine is running below optimal temperature)
At the moment, driving to and from work I dont see temps higher than 79 if I stay off boost! - OE Rad & Thermostat.
I thought the thermostat started opening at something like 65/68?
no, thermostat starts opening at 80/81 degrees c. I\'d check your thermostat if i were you. I knew mine was sticking open once, as i had an aftermarket coolant temp sensor and gauge, the sensor was plumbed into the rad line. I could see this gauge starting to show temps as soon as the engine was started, which proved that the thermostat was sticking open. I now seeit only registering a temperature when the Apexi shows 80 degrees C, so i also know it is operating exactly as it should. And even in this whether i never see under that temp. However, i regularly see temps of only just above 80 in this weather.
I suppose your thermostat could just be opening a tad early.
Ah thats true.
My journey to work is not all that long and once it gets to 79 on the commander then it stays there till I boot it - guess its just a tad early as you say! :)
It\'s a bit funny really I see lower temps now, but remember the ambient temps are lower and also I am off boost as I\'m running the engine in so revs are under 4k. So not a proper test as such but it\'s lower than I remember it being when I was pootling about or in traffic with the stock setup. Thermostat is a new oem one, will get a better idea once I have some more miles under my belt and the rev limit is raised/car is mapped.