Please help guys! I\'m not a happy bunny!
I thought I\'d have a whirl in the rex tonight, cos she hadn\'t been started for a while. Got in, started to smile with the knowledge that I\'d soon be having some fun again! I put the key in the ignition, turned it, and that familiar whirring began as it started up....or so I was expecting! It just kept turning over, turning over...and turning over!! I stopped after a while before it flattened the battery!
My guess is that there\'s no spark. Does this sound reasonable to you chaps? And in that case, that leads me to the question, does the fd have a distributor, or is it some type of DIS unit? If it has a distributr, would I be wise in concentrating in that area? (Like for example, the distributor cap - cracks, etc) If so, where is it!!!?
Does anyone have any other ideas?
Thanks for the help guys! I\'m desperate! I\'ve only had it about 2 months, I\'m hoping that I don\'t have to pay out for a big bill already!!
im no expert but from what i have gathered you may have flooded the car.
check this thread out posted by gbutcher,
also try a search to get more info....
Starting a Flooded RX (mainly FD)
A rotary engine can become flooded. This can be caused by a number of things:
1. Engine is low on compression
2. If you move your car around without running it for long (i.e. running it for less than a few mins. each time).
3. Old/fouled spark plugs
4. Spark plugs that are too cold (see this related thread: Spark Plugs)
5. Some other problem i.e. electrical/fuel etc. (not covered in this thread)
Usual symptoms are: Car was running fine, but suddenly won\'t start, or after some time of sitting around it won\'t start. Plugs will be completely wet when you take them out.
De-flooding steps :
1. Remove the fuel pump relay (UPDATE OCT-2003: REMOVE THE MAIN EGI FUSE)...
2. Remove the spark plugs (ensuring the spark plugs leads are away from the engine)...
3. Turn the engine over with the plugs out and the accelerator peddle wide open for 10 to 15 seconds...
4. Wait 10-15 minutes and repeat step 3. Or keep repeating this step until no more fuel sprays out of the spark plug holes...
5. Remove the plugs again and squirt some engine oil into each rotor housing through the spark plug holes (this will line the rotor housing with a thin film of oil, helping the apex seal - seal against the rotor housing, hence restoring compression)...
6. Put the clean plugs/(best to have a new set if you can) back in but do not wire up the spark plug wires...
7. Either manually turn the engine over by hand (from the pulleys) or rotate the motor with the accelerator peddle wide open for 10 to 15 seconds...
8. Re-install the fuel pump relay and spark plug wires.
Try to start it.
If it starts, keep the revs up - don\'t let it die. It will probably run quite rough for a while and after 30 - 60 seconds it should run on its own.
Be patient with it, you may have to repeat some of the steps a few times.
If you are continuously having problems with flooding, then it is most probably because the Compression is low - it could be engine re-build time. Have the compression checked by a proper rotary workshop - they will use a proper Rotary Compression Tester like this one: http://www.reworx.co.uk/REWorxComp07.htm
It was running fine last sunday, and hasn\'t been used since then (7 days of non use). And the engine turns over fine. Do the symptons sound about right with that information for being a flooded engine?
To be honest i would say it sounds like its been flooded try the steps i now its long but do this before anything....
this is what it says....
Usual symptoms are: Car was running fine, but suddenly won\'t start, or after some time of sitting around it won\'t start. Plugs will be completely wet when you take them out
what i usually do is to start the car every other day for a while if i am not driving it for a long time to prevent this.
let me know how you get on....
shaq
Ok, cheers, thanks for the info. Will give it a try, but won\'t actually be able to do it till the weekend when there\'ll be more light.
try turning it over with the pedal flat to the floor. This stops fuel pumping when its starting, and could relieve the flooding. Mine does this occasionally, and all I do is the flat foot technique and it works every time.
I am going to fit heat range 8 NGKs to alleviate the problem.
If you like, call me on 01932230163, and Ill talk you thru it .
That sounds like an easier option! i\'ll give that a crack first! Cheers!
Martiny
what kind of number is that ?!? :confused:
you from abroad or something?
jus curious....
Shaq
Ok, fixed up the phone number, some typo\'s, some spelling, and some grammar!
Happy now? :-)))
*!!*^^!** \'ing laptop keyboards!!!!!!!!!!
Martiny
It\'s perfect ! thanks
:p
LOL ! :)
Shaq
Well, I tried the \'foot to the floor\' starting method last night, and it almost fired (i.e it started to) but then went back to how it was previously. Presumably because the spark plugs got wet again.
I think I\'m going to have to remove the spark plugs on saturday when I have more light.
Ok, heres what I would do next:
1) fully recharge the battery - its probably suffered a bit by now!
- or even better, can you jump start it somehow? You want a real strong spark.
2) Try the foot flat again, but when it sounds like its starting to fire, just keep the key turned to help it along a bit. Whilst its starting to fire, bring your foot back up and keep just a little bit of throttle on, keep the key turned all the time!
3) You could do this for about 3-4 seconds at a time.
repeat the above a few times.
I am pretty sure it will start up.
OK, I\'ll give that ok a go! Cheers again!
The battery is suffering a bit, but I\'m very impressed about how long it\'s lasted! I spose it doesn\'t need so much effort to turn the engine, due to there being a lot less moving parts compared to a regular engine.
Hi Nikp,
I had exactly the same problem with my FD this morning. Hadn\'t driven it for a week or so. My engine turned over OK, but no hint of firing.
I had a look at the handbook, and it suggested what Martin has said, ie putting accelerator to floor. I tried this twice, but without success, cranking for about 5 secs each time.
I then left if for 2 hours, did other stuff, then had a look at this forum and FDUK. Didn\'t fancy taking plugs out (don\'t think I could anyway:() so I thought I would give Martin\'s method another go. Still no joy, but then tried regular start method and the engine fired after about 4 attempts:cool
So basically, it would appear that alternating between "foot to the floor", and "foot off the accelerator" did the trick for me.
Regards
Neil Scarrow
P.S. Thanks Martin, without your post I would have given up and called the RAC. Didn\'t know that with foot to floor, no fuel is pumped in:wave
Thanks Neil.
I have given it goes with first foot to the floor, then nothing on the pedal, then foot to the floor again, with no luck. But I shall try with the extra info Martin has given today and keep my fingers crossed!
I don\'t fancy playing with the plugs either, but am starting to resign myself to having to do it!!
I hope she starts, I\'m missing her!
Ok! Glad I helped somebody then :-)
When you floor it, no fuel is pumped in. Once the fuel cleared out, it wont start because there is no fuel to burn. So you need to try it with normal pedal alternately. (I would say just a little bit of throttle, about 1/8th).
Niel, Meryl sent you a dinner invite on email, what happened?
Yes the motor turns easy with the battery, because there is little compression at starting revs. I suppose the lack of springs, levers, chains,etc also helps.
Another reason is that the extra fuel has washed way any oil that was aiding compession. This is why the deflood procedure has a step to squirt oil in the plug holes once theyr out.
Actually, an easier way is to remove the little black rubber pipe for the boost gauge, and put some in there.
Hi Martin,
As far as I know, I didn\'t receive an email from Meryl. Shame because I just live off pasta and fish fingers these days so home cooking would have been a pleasant change.
It could be that my junk mail filter removed it out before I had a chance to check it. I get 7 days, but if I\'m away for that amount of time I might miss the odd one.
Just to confirm my email address as well:
neil_scarrow@hotmail.com.
If you post yours and Meryl\'s email addresses to this forum I can make sure the junk mail filter doesn\'t do the same again. Or just email me normally and I\'ll look out for it. Not working until Sunday.
Regards
Neil
Well, I\'m still not having any luck starting her, even with a fully recharged battery (Did that last night).
So, I\'m either doing Martins technique wrong, or it just doesn\'t like that technique, or it\'s not flooded and there\'s something more serious that has gone wrong. I have resigned myself to taking the plugs out on saturday, there\'s no point in me wasting any more time trying to start her any other way. If she\'s not flooded, then I will be even more of an unhappy bunny! :(
Nik, where do you live, if you\'re close enough, I can come and have alook if you like.
Neil, check your mail!
I\'m in bristol. That would be great if you could, but don\'t put yourself out. I\'m don\'t want to put you to too much trouble!
Bum and wee :-( Im in Surrey!
Oh well, never mind. Thanks for the offer anyway!
I recharged my battery last night, and wanted to see how much voltage was in it afterwards. I noticed that quite quickly the voltage dropped from 13volts to 12.55volts. By this morning it was down to 12.38volts. I presume that this means that the battery is not holding its charge? And if this is the case presumably this will not help my attempts at starting the FD?
I think the battery is in need of replacement.
mm I am not sure that your test is enough to condemn the battery, I hope someone else will post a response to that.
Are there an marks on the battery to say when it was made/bought? If its over 3/4 years, then it is probably time for a new one.
All the writing is in japanese!! I have no idea!!
Ok, another signal is that the battery goes flat very quickly now after a few attempts at starting it. It really doesn\'t last long at all.
But am I right in thinking that if the battery is not too good it certainly won\'t help the situation with trying to start the car?
There is a secret warehouse dockside in Japan where all the good batteries are taken out and replaced with knackered units prior to shipment ;)
This method reduces disposal costs to the Japanese ;)
What?!?
Max
Ok, yes a poor battery will definitely excarsurbate the problem.
Batteries dont last well if left standing in a car for a while, such as on the Japanese or English docks for a few weeks. The £60 on a new one is going to be money well spent, I am sure.
I have also just found out about carbon lock as well. Should I be worried about that? When I take my car out and once it has warmed up, I make sure I get the engine revs well up.
And what are the best places to go for the battery? Do I need any special types of battery? What are the specifications required!? (I don\'t buy batteries for cars often!! :rolleyes: )
Hi Nik,
Couple of things, yep carbon is a killer for a Rotary although not to sure what \'carbon lock\' worst l have heard of a tip sticking in due to build up.
lf you run Shell Optimax or good Super or whatever you should keep it clean, providing you don\'t drive everywhere at 2000 revs Max you should be O/K.
All Rotary\'s have and always will like a good battery on board to start them otherwise you will have em flooding a little!
any recommendations/specifications for battery buying for a FD?
I looked at getting an optima yellow top for my scoob when i went a bit OTT with ICE but the little buggers wouldn\'t fit cause the terminals were on the opposite side & leads woodn\'t stretch that far, oh well saved me a fair few quid getting a cheaper un (http://smilies.crowd9.com/contrib/lynx/redwink.gif) but wood like a pointer [read help the ignorant retard (http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/dork.gif) out] on wot to get for FD
Si
The closest and best battery specialists to you would either be Manbat or Bristol Batteries.
What you need is a 60 or 70Amp Hour unit.
Price will depend on brand and length of Guarantee normally they come in 2,3 or 4 year lengths.
If you decide to go to Manbat speak to a guy called Lee and tell him that you are a friend of Andrew from Batec and I told you to go there and he should sort you out with a good price.
QuoteOriginally posted by scooby_si
any recommendations/specifications for battery buying for a FD?
I looked at getting an optima yellow top for my scoob when i went a bit OTT with ICE but the little buggers wouldn\'t fit cause the terminals were on the opposite side & leads woodn\'t stretch that far, oh well saved me a fair few quid getting a cheaper un (http://smilies.crowd9.com/contrib/lynx/redwink.gif) but wood like a pointer [read help the ignorant retard (http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/dork.gif) out] on wot to get for FD
Si
The optimas now come in reverse layouts but only for the red top ones by special order.
UK part number 068 (70Amp hour) or 005L (60Amp Hour) should be fine for normal use.
Just a few general pointers..... the calcium/calcium units last longer and give better cranking amps but when they get badly discharged they can be a bugger to recharge often needing a lot more that a standard charger to do it.
As for anything else..... just depend on guarantee and brand really.
Nick
That battery is a goodun.
It is only suppose to hold 12.75 volts which is 100% charged. Your batt is approx 70% charged which is good. However cranking it too often without charging it is bad that is what will kill a battery,
Thanks
RAju
QuoteOriginally posted by mraraju
Nick
That battery is a goodun.
It is only suppose to hold 12.75 volts which is 100% charged. Your batt is approx 70% charged which is good. However cranking it too often without charging it is bad that is what will kill a battery,
Thanks
RAju
Raju,
I disagree..... a battery in good condition should after charging hold its voltage at a minimum of 12.4 to 12.5 for a number of weeks to months if not connected to the car. If it has been charged properly and then after a period of a day drops to 12.38 then is is either on the way out or the charger has not manage to fully charge it due to things such as sulphation etc...
Andrew
Hi chaps! Here\'s an update:
On saturday I bought a new battery. As soon as I connected the battery up and tried to start it, I could hear her trying to fire, which was straight away evidence that I was making progress, cos I barely got any firing with the previous battery!
After about 10-15 minutes of trying (and jumping it off the calibra, just so I didn\'t flatten the brand new battery!) it finally started....and stalled straight away again!! "NOOOOOOOOoooooooooo" was my initial reaction! :mad: Connected having more goes for a couple more minutes and it finally started (again!) with a prompy stamp on the accelerator pedal to keep the revs up!! Woohoo!! :D Much to my delight, and after a week of trying, the engine lives!!
Oh, and the information on flooded engines that state there\'ll be a lot of smoke certainly isn\'t wrong!! And it stunk of petrol to boot!!
And lastly all it took was the method as described by the manual and Martiny
Thanks all for your help! It has been very much appreciated!
OK!!!!!!!!! Wow! Great news, at last. I love a happy ending.
What Manual? Do you have an english owners manual?
There is some speculation about how to prevent flooding. Obviously, it can be impractical to fully warm up the engine every time you start it. Mine is only getting moved in and out the garage at the mo, I m working on the spoiler and the rear bumper is coming off soon fro a respray. So, mine has flooded once or twice recently.
One thought is go for "Hotter" sparkplugs. The hotter they are, the less likely they are to "foul" - get contaminated, or wet, and then wont fire.
Standard plug is an NGK BU9EQP all round for the UK cars ( But I think this is a misprint by Mazda UK).
NGK US say a 9 for Trailing and a 7 for Leading:
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/apps/car_truck_suv/results.asp
Mazda Factory Manual for the US says: 9 Trailing - 7 Leading, or
8 Trailing - 6 Leading.
I am going to try - 9 Trailing, 8 Leading.
Also see:
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=264&highlight=%2Aplug%2A
txs
I found a site that has the US manual, and downloaded it in pdf format. Not that useful, but occassionally helpful!