Something some may have thought of before now! I have been caught on this one, but I recon I should pass this one on. Before you agree to put you car into a magazine for an article ask how much you are getting. I think it’s disgusting when one considers the time effort and money owners put into there project, that a magazine will not pay a penny for the article. Almost everyone else gets paid. The photographer, and the writer. Contry to what these greedy people will tell you they make a B**** fortune. Don’t forget, without our cars, they would have no magazine. Make the monkey pay for it. If you say no, they say so what, if we all say no they are in trouble.
I did not even get free magazine when you thing went in :2Mad How crap is that ???
Oh right , are you famous?.........this wasnt hello or heat magazine!!! and your name isnt david beckham.
Ok you have spent **** loads on your car, but that was your choice, and not the magazines!
Most people appreciate it when their cars go in a magazine for all to see,.....you obviously dont!!
Shut up moaning, and just sign the copies to your adoring fans when it hits the shelve
You could have said no to the car going in the mag!
Quote from: DLNOh right , are you famous?.........this wasnt hello or heat magazine!!! and your name isnt david beckham.
Ok you have spent **** loads on your car, but that was your choice, and not the magazines!
Most people appreciate it when their cars go in a magazine for all to see,.....you obviously dont!!
Shut up moaning, and just sign the copies to your adoring fans when it hits the shelve
You could have said no to the car going in the mag!
LOL, You can see the Point though?
They take Pic\'s of some ones car and Make money from it? if it was Clothes the Models would get paid? They should do some thing? even if its a token Jesture?
I think you must insist on Girls!!!! I think they have that in there Power :yes
NOBODY get\'s paid for magazine appearances with their cars.
Regards
Carl
I dont think they make a super fortune, check out J-Tuner the magazine is no more beacuse it failed to make a profit.
I think its Kudos to get in a magazine, I would luv to see my car have a proper article on it something to show me mates, plus you have people recognise your car on the road makes you feel proud, so I would not bitch about it Normski its obvious you dont need the money as you are own a 3 Rotor
Quote from: CarlNOBODY get\'s paid for magazine appearances with their cars.
Regards
Carl
Yeh but they could at least send you a free copy of the mag your in??
Quote from: GrizzlyYeh but they could at least send you a free copy of the mag your in??
They are not even keen on that either!
:Hammer
Regards
Carl
Maybe we should all chip in and pay for full Membership for Normski sounds like he needs the money lol :rollin
I think you are being slighty hypocritical Normski, People have put time and effort and into this forum and club being the organisers and members without them they would be no forum ! but we dont winge about it if Non members post on here or use the forum. But yet you winge about not being paid to appear in a magazine!!!!
yet you cant stick your hand in your pocket and pull out 25 quid for membership which obviously you can afford, with the way you go on about how wonderful your car is and how much money you spent on it!
I know a lot of non members are short on cash and cant even afford to run the Rexys correctly and they in my eyes can be excused, you my friend should stop winging about small stuff, they are people out there who can not even afford to feed or clothes themselves, oh yeah you been flamed :flamed btw
I am sure you are an ok guy in real life but you come across here on this forum as luving himslef (ps I am not the only one that thinks that) so in future re-read what you post.
Well I had a fleet of skimpy dressed girls in attendance,was to cold for them to strip down........had a paid lunch and as much GUINNESS as I could consume with the said girls,..also got a free copy of the mag,..and was paid £500.00 for my days trouble.After that we all went out to the local club...all paid for by the mag.Must be cos I drive OLD SCHOOLERS and we are special....:Ladys-man :Party :wiggle :) :Thumbsup! :Typing :bandit
Quote from: oldoneWell I had a fleet of skimpy dressed girls in attendance,was to cold for them to strip down........had a paid lunch and as much GUINNESS as I could consume with the said girls,..also got a free copy of the mag,..and was paid £500.00 for my days trouble.After that we all went out to the local club...all paid for by the mag.Must be cos I drive OLD SCHOOLERS and we are special....:Ladys-man :Party :wiggle :) :Thumbsup! :Typing :bandit
No wonder the magazine is no more they spent the budget on you :rollin
PMSL....:wiggle ..Suppose that is the scenario some members want,I was to happy to forfeit a days income,actaully spend money to get my lil 2 in a magazine.It was an honour for me to do this and the payback was so cool when I actaually got the mag in print.!!!!:Thumbsup! Also I made a special friend in Carlin.....:Thumbs-up .In my life I would never have asked for money or anything of such nature.If he had said...bring your car to Manchester I would have done.....after all these years I am still an eager enthusiast,almost child like !!!!!!!
Suppose it feels better when you actually do all the work on your car yourself ,its good payback :)
Wiiiiiiiiinnner!!
Quote from: oldonePMSL....:wiggle ..Suppose that is the scenario some members want,I was to happy to forfeit a days income,actaully spend money to get my lil 2 in a magazine.It was an honour for me to do this and the payback was so cool when I actaually got the mag in print.!!!!:Thumbsup! Also I made a special friend in Carlin.....:Thumbs-up .In my life I would never have asked for money or anything of such nature.If he had said...bring your car to Manchester I would have done.....after all these years I am still an eager enthusiast,almost child like !!!!!!!
Suppose it feels better when you actually do all the work on your car yourself ,its good payback :)
Could not put it better myself :cheers
Quote from: BlitzBoyMaybe we should all chip in and pay for full Membership for Normski sounds like he needs the money lol :rollin
I think you are being slighty hypocritical Normski, People have put time and effort and into this forum and club being the organisers and members without them they would be no forum ! but we dont winge about it if Non members post on here or use the forum. But yet you winge about not being paid to appear in a magazine!!!!
yet you cant stick your hand in your pocket and pull out 25 quid for membership which obviously you can afford, with the way you go on about how wonderful your car is and how much money you spent on it!
I know a lot of non members are short on cash and cant even afford to run the Rexys correctly and they in my eyes can be excused, you my friend should stop winging about small stuff, they are people out there who can not even afford to feed or clothes themselves, oh yeah you been flamed :flamed btw
I am sure you are an ok guy in real life but you come across here on this forum as luving himslef (ps I am not the only one that thinks that) so in future re-read what you post.
here bloody here!!! :Thumbs-up
Ha I knew that would set the car among the pigeons! Some interesting points. Magazines are there to make a profit, there not there to supply some odd service to the car community, like a charity. Most of the big magazines, Top gear, Jap performance, Banzi and alike are doing quite nice for themselves. So, if it’s all about the great rep you get from the article then why don’t all these top models do it for nothing. Why is it they get paid silly money for an hours work. The reason no one gets paid for the right ups, is down to one fact only! This being, cos they will get any number of other Muppets to do it for nothing. As said, if on one done it for nothing, then you watch the sods pay up then. It’s rather like you work for nothing and I will make the profits and drive my nice new M5 BMW, Luvly money! Come now why should you not get aid ? The, simple fact is, without your cars in them they would have no magazine that anyone would want to buy! It’s nice that people enjoy to look at your car, Of course, it feels great, Nothing wrong with that, But why should some parasite of a magazine make money out of it for putting in absolutely NOTHING! You don’t’ and you put the money in! DUrrrrrr! :Typing
http://www.esnips.com/doc/5a586aea-63d0-4260-8bc1-cac75c92a62f
Quote from: normskiHa I knew that would set the car among the pigeons! Some interesting points. Magazines are there to make a profit, there not there to supply some odd service to the car community, like a charity. Most of the big magazines, Top gear, Jap performance, Banzi and alike are doing quite nice for themselves. So, if it’s all about the great rep you get from the article then why don’t all these top models do it for nothing. Why is it they get paid silly money for an hours work. The reason no one gets paid for the right ups, is down to one fact only! This being, cos they will get any number of other Muppets to do it for nothing. As said, if on one done it for nothing, then you watch the sods pay up then. It’s rather like you work for nothing and I will make the profits and drive my nice new M5 BMW, Luvly money! Come now why should you not get aid ? The, simple fact is, without your cars in them they would have no magazine that anyone would want to buy! It’s nice that people enjoy to look at your car, Of course, it feels great, Nothing wrong with that, But why should some parasite of a magazine make money out of it for putting in absolutely NOTHING! You don’t’ and you put the money in! DUrrrrrr! :Typing
http://www.esnips.com/doc/5a586aea-63d0-4260-8bc1-cac75c92a62f
Maybe one day in another life,I will be this \'big deal\' vendor and tuning factory,magazines will be banging my doors down !!!!!!!! and I will only supply my services to the highest payer :eek: :eek: BUT UNTIL THEN I WILL STAY THE FORKING MUPPET,WHO DOES THINGS FOR NOTHING,WHO IS THE TOTAL ENTHUSISAST,AND HAVE NOT GOT MY HEAD STUCK UP MY ASS COS I IMAGINE TO BE THE :King OF BLING.
But hey,luckily for me Im not a ONE WONDER CAR PERSON.....................:rolleyes: :guinness
It\'s individuals just like you, with that sort of attitude, thats supplies these greedy Greedy little magazines with an endless supply of cars. I suppose in another life! I you were a supper model, a Jody Kidd sort, You would:flamed say ! Na don’t both with 50K payment, I will just keep the Prestige of knowing I was in magazine. Yea right. Don’t shout it’s rude!!!
And by the way you be supprised how many cars I have!!
Quote from: normskiIt\'s individuals just like you, with that sort of attitude, thats supplies these greedy Greedy little magazines with an endless supply of cars. I suppose in another life! I you were a supper model, a Jody Kidd sort, You would:flamed say ! Na don’t both with 50K payment, I will just keep the Prestige of knowing I was in magazine. Yea right. Don’t shout it’s rude!!!
And by the way you be supprised how many cars I have!!
Maybe you are right,:Thumbs-up ............the last time I shouted I got banned :spank .....BUT... in my other life I WAS a Jody Kidd sort and my sponsors did demand money for my time,but life goes on and I cannot rest on the laurels of my past acheivements..:wiggle Rather be a has been than a never been..:rolleyes: ,maybe that is why I do things for free now :yes :)
Quote from: normskiIt\'s individuals just like you, with that sort of attitude, thats supplies these greedy Greedy little magazines with an endless supply of cars. I suppose in another life! I you were a supper model, a Jody Kidd sort, You would:flamed say ! Na don’t both with 50K payment, I will just keep the Prestige of knowing I was in magazine. Yea right. Don’t shout it’s rude!!!
And by the way you be supprised how many cars I have!!
I do think Norman that you are abit over the top with your comments.
The REAL world does not pay private individuals to feature their cars.that is reality.
The tuning shops do not get paid to feature their car\'s,maybe sometimes they might get some of their expenses paid,but they do get good publicity for their work.
In your case Pip should get some good publicity for WGT\'s excellent work(I have seen it),and you should enjoy the privelidge of having your car featured.
That is real life I am afraid in the car world,and cannot be compared to modelling of people.
I wouldn\'t mind betting that car manufacturers even have to PAY for their cars to be on Top Gear and the like!
Regards
Carl
i thought i would be a bonus to get your car in a mag.
That said i would have thought you\'d get a free copy of the mag!
Of course your right, We know car Features tend not get any money. But I am asking how much of this a tradition type thing,( a just how it’s always been sort of thing) ? it’s a kind of double standards type of thing. Cos people don’t get paid, does not make right. Does it? And your right also, about Pip, he will probably get a couple of mags to a thing on the car, his choice, and it’s a kind of free advert for his work and what he does, which he would normally have to pay for. As we know, marketing can be very expensive for companies, so any mileage they can get (marketing wise is a good thing) I just look at it rather like you spending your money, time, effort, to get a car going, or to build a car. And some bloke like me comes along and says, great nice job mate, Don’t mind if I take it to do a few taxi runs in it so I can earn some dosh for myself do you. I am sure would agree, !!!! You may say yea no problem, you hire it. Why should someone who is nothing to you, make money off your back. You would not do a rebuild for nothing, and supply parts for nothing to boot. Why should you, It’s your time, your effort, your money. They are not your best mate, brother, sister, or something. As said I agree with much of what you said, these are the facts of life. I am just saying, it does not make it right!
As far as someone else mentioned about losing a days pay to help someone out, there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s to help someone out who is in trouble or in a soup. I would do the same. I am talking business here, different thing altogether. :Talking1
As you have raised an interesting debate are you going to join MRC?
Or you can give your views on this thread
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32185
Significantly reduce the membership fee, and for those of you who wish to take part in these add-ons mentioned they pay on top. £25.00 for the use of a web site seems a little much to me anyway. As all will know, there are hundreds, thousands of sites out there which don’t want money or at least anything like £25.00 to join the site and participate in it. Yes its fun, good to talk, and communicate with others of the same interests. But £25.00 to do that, is a little harsh to say the least. As far as, rotorstock goes, and the savings, Ok, why not give people the choice instead of press ganging them into membership. It’s sounds like pay or clear off. I am only using the message board, nothing else. If I turn up at the shows, I am happy to pay the normal rate, so it is with any other club activities. As you say, members get those benefits, I don’t, I am happy with that situation. So, why should us none members pay.
Normski....in plain words:
You have your head stuck up your arse!
WIIIIIIIIIINNNNer
Quote from: 88GT-RNormski....in plain words:
You have your head stuck up your arse!
To say such things without any form of quailification is a little shallow, don\'t you think! To hurl abuse or make rash derogatory statements without qualification of them first is a little sad! If someone is a fool, then you should be able to justify you’re your opinion, It appears you have not offered one statement to do this, so please allow others the freedom to view life outside the box! So come on then, what’s wrong with this approach, if I am so Anal ! Please educate me on this point!!! :Snoring
Quote from: normskiSignificantly reduce the membership fee, and for those of you who wish to take part in these add-ons mentioned they pay on top. £25.00 for the use of a web site seems a little much to me anyway. As all will know, there are hundreds, thousands of sites out there which don’t want money or at least anything like £25.00 to join the site and participate in it. Yes its fun, good to talk, and communicate with others of the same interests. But £25.00 to do that, is a little harsh to say the least. As far as, rotorstock goes, and the savings, Ok, why not give people the choice instead of press ganging them into membership. It’s sounds like pay or clear off. I am only using the message board, nothing else. If I turn up at the shows, I am happy to pay the normal rate, so it is with any other club activities. As you say, members get those benefits, I don’t, I am happy with that situation. So, why should us none members pay.
All the more reason the make the site and club more exclusive I think.
Regards
Carl
Normski kick ass !!
He has a cool attitude, and a cool car.
Please do not be too harsh on him. It is not his fault that he is foreign, and therefore unable to adequately communicate his visions to us.
Normski, they should at least have given you that free mag..
Quote from: normskiAs far as someone else mentioned about losing a days pay to help someone out, there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s to help someone out who is in trouble or in a soup. I would do the same. I am talking business here, different thing altogether. :Talking1
Very wise words..
Think on this one!!!!
All the other sites which have car related topics on, message boards, and alike. all would cost £25.00 to participate.
I just wonder how many members log onto other sites and don\'t pay member ship fees!!!! ummmmm
Insular, attitude... The net is all about information and communication, this site does not have everything, some good stuff, but imagine not being able to log onto anything else ( car wise) unless you paid. I bet that would reduce all your net exploring on different things about the Rex. :eek:
I dont think its appropriate for this thread to end up with an arguement and then eventually being closed.This has happened on a number of occasions recently so please think we should keep this on topic rather than discussing/abusing people for not being members etc
Therefore...
Whilst I agree that it\'s bad there is no payment for getting a car in a mag I dont really see why there should be. You arent building the car for the magazine after all (hope not anyway).
The whole point of having your car in a mag is to show it off to others. I would also love for mine to be in a mag....its been in a few at event pics etc. Have been told that mine is \'too standard\' :(
As for not receiving a free copy, I agree I think that they could have provided that for you.
Last comment::
"Whilst I agree that it\'s bad there is no payment for getting a car in a mag I dont really see why there should be"
Pardon: sounds like contradiction to me! But hay I have my head up my ass!!!:Party
Your right: I am having no problem with this and I have insulted no one!
I am saying no more on this one:
I think it sounds like you got a bad deal to be honest. Everyone I know who\'s had a feature got at least several copies of the magazine. Which one is it btw?
A friend who\'s car was featured also got a CD full of all the photographs that were taken, full 12 megapixel jobbies.
I\'d hassle the mag if I were you ;)
Personally if anyone is so interested in getting paid for showing their car you really should ask about this before agreeing to the feature.
I know where your coming from Memski about the mags not paying to feature the car but... its not common place for a mag to pay the owner of the car - although you should always get a stash of mags for it. As said above the real benefit is to be recognised for your time and effort, like winiing a trophy at a show. If your a tuner its free publicity so its all good!
Steve at J-tuner gave me about 20 mags for my feature, if they had given me 70 pounds I\'d have gone out and bought about 20 copies which would have cost at least 70 pounds anyway!
Sorry Normski, but I think your basic premise is flawed. (Possibly on more than one level)
No publisher puts a title out for the love of the editorial content. In their view, a magazine only exists to sell advertising space - nothing else. Any publisher will also tell you that profits are balanced between titles that sell well and titles that don\'t. To cheer yourself up on this score, spend a happy evening working out what it cost Future Publishing to float J-Tuner for as long as it lasted. They could not make it pay (enough) and they are (were?) the largest publisher of consumer titles in Europe.
J-Tuner though did enthusiasts a major service in its short life, as it taught the other titles that just buying in agency articles from the US was not enough. They both still do it but are making a visible effort to include more UK material. If it makes you feel better, that effort will be coming off their bottom line - because it is far more trouble and expense to set up a shoot here, even with a free car, than it is to take the whole package off the wire.
I also think it is unlikely that anyone at the sharp end of producing a magazine, for a niche like Japanese enthusiasts, is living riotously well on the income they make from writing or shooting for it. I doubt many of them would have the wherewithall to commission anything on the same scale as the car they were writing about in this instance. The cult of celebrity may apply to Clarkson et al and those supermodels much-mentioned above but only once they have become household names do they have an asset value that would justify high fees to a publisher. How many people reading this (if any) can name a journalist writing for a Japanese title? (That’s ‘currently’ by the way for J-tuner fans and as he wasn’t actually christened ‘Scary Steve’ that won’t count either.)
There is the additional argument that an owner gains from the exposure as he/she is able to use "as seen in..." when the car goes up for sale. Yours may not be but Japanese, like most other car titles, are always able to fill pages with vehicles that are (or are about to be) up for sale. From a publisher’s perspective this means they are giving away free advertising. A particularly painful heresy, it would seem to them to represent ‘exchange’ rather than ‘exploitation’.
None of this will offset the cost of doing something really expensive, something that involves lots of bespoke problem solving by owner or builder. Still, if creating the car was about return on investment I think that was probably the first mistake.
Incidentally, I don’t mind whether you join anything or not. I would be mildly interested to see the car but not sufficiently motivated to buy a magazine and no, I was not paid by the word for this submission, I wrote it for pleasure and because the thread made me laugh. Good luck with the car. Sprinkle some cocaine around the air intake, run into a supermodel coming out of an alcohol rehabilitation clinic and we could be talking ‘Hello’ magazine and some really big bucks… Call me â€" our people should do lunch. ?
Quote from: jinxSorry Normski, but I think your basic premise is flawed. (Possibly on more than one level)
No publisher puts a title out for the love of the editorial content. In their view, a magazine only exists to sell advertising space - nothing else. Any publisher will also tell you that profits are balanced between titles that sell well and titles that don\'t. To cheer yourself up on this score, spend a happy evening working out what it cost Future Publishing to float J-Tuner for as long as it lasted. They could not make it pay (enough) and they are (were?) the largest publisher of consumer titles in Europe.
J-Tuner though did enthusiasts a major service in its short life, as it taught the other titles that just buying in agency articles from the US was not enough. They both still do it but are making a visible effort to include more UK material. If it makes you feel better, that effort will be coming off their bottom line - because it is far more trouble and expense to set up a shoot here, even with a free car, than it is to take the whole package off the wire.
I also think it is unlikely that anyone at the sharp end of producing a magazine, for a niche like Japanese enthusiasts, is living riotously well on the income they make from writing or shooting for it. I doubt many of them would have the wherewithall to commission anything on the same scale as the car they were writing about in this instance. The cult of celebrity may apply to Clarkson et al and those supermodels much-mentioned above but only once they have become household names do they have an asset value that would justify high fees to a publisher. How many people reading this (if any) can name a journalist writing for a Japanese title? (That’s ‘currently’ by the way for J-tuner fans and as he wasn’t actually christened ‘Scary Steve’ that won’t count either.)
There is the additional argument that an owner gains from the exposure as he/she is able to use "as seen in..." when the car goes up for sale. Yours may not be but Japanese, like most other car titles, are always able to fill pages with vehicles that are (or are about to be) up for sale. From a publisher’s perspective this means they are giving away free advertising. A particularly painful heresy, it would seem to them to represent ‘exchange’ rather than ‘exploitation’.
None of this will offset the cost of doing something really expensive, something that involves lots of bespoke problem solving by owner or builder. Still, if creating the car was about return on investment I think that was probably the first mistake.
Incidentally, I don’t mind whether you join anything or not. I would be mildly interested to see the car but not sufficiently motivated to buy a magazine and no, I was not paid by the word for this submission, I wrote it for pleasure and because the thread made me laugh. Good luck with the car. Sprinkle some cocaine around the air intake, run into a supermodel coming out of an alcohol rehabilitation clinic and we could be talking ‘Hello’ magazine and some really big bucks… Call me â€" our people should do lunch. ?
Well put sir ! A very entertaining thread I agree.......Almost :guinness time I say.........:cheers
In answer to the question as to why our member Muppet\'s let magazines feature their cars,
Many many members have approached me about assisting them to have their cars featured in various magazines over the years and I am very happy to have assisted quite a few of them in their quest.
I personally view this quest as a way of people enhancing the ownership of their car just the way as I have always hoped that becoming a Full club Member also enhances ownership of an enthusiasts vehicle.
__________________
the funny thing that no one has mentioned is that my friend recently got his car featured, (mag soon to be out). the decent clever specialists were the ones that gave him money. shockingly when approached the ones that did his rebuild eg £6k+ were not willing to give him anything/ discount him anything such as a cheaper intercooler as they said that all their money was being spent on their own car.
when on the cover of a mag and with stickers (that he had put (my friend)) all over his engine bay promoting their company, you might think they might want to make sure those stickers stay there, for the photo shoot. my friend even turned round to them and said ok then why should i not just change the stickers to one of your rivals and say they did the rebuild then,........there answer was.....ow well errrr......
and then some of other specialists which had done some stuff in the past to the car etc, but nothing as big as the rebuild where happy to give him a credit on his account of £250, without even asking. he just let them know it was going into the mag and going to be on the cover and he was going to put some of their stickers on the car and they said. thankyou very much, we would like to show are appresiation. (this is the sort of company that are clever as they see the benifit and are greatful to their customer).
in the same way normski your engine bay is awsome, and a real credit to (WGT) pip, and now that you are mainly going to use it as a show car it is going to be giving him tones of advertising. therfore if you want some money for a feature i would be going to WGT as you are going to be aiding them significantly. obviously they arent going to hand you cash but they might like to slightly subsidise your build etc.
that is one hold up i have, some specialist do great work but in my opinion there after sale and customer care is cr4p. obviously, this is talking from limited knowledge/experience so please dont every vendor take this as an offence.
however the clever company above (dont want to mention any names even though i think the diserve it), once when i was not happy with the service they provided, (a couple of things were not done that i had specificly asked them to do, so as i was collecting that car and paying a largish bill, i said that i wasnt happy bla bla etc). due to a mess up between the person answering the phone and the workshop.
i had a phone call the next day saying they had looked into it and realise it was a miss comuniction on there part and there fault and that they do not like people going away unhappy with there service etc and they would like to sort out the probs free of charge next time i went, as well as crediting me with £50 to cover my travel costs. That is customer service/care as it should be.
So whats your cunning plan Normski??? Unite everyone with a car worthy of a future feature,and tell them not to let there pride and joy be featured unless they get paid!?!?!?!?!
If your lucky enough to be offered or have had a feature then that should be enough surely??? Your car gets lusted after by loads of people,it gets nationwide exposure and you want money as well???
Having read this thread completely and noticed your attitude,maybe thats why you personally got a bum deal with your feature.
Getting your car into a mag is a cool thing,but the dilusions of graduer your suffering from aren\'t cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: jinxSorry Normski, but I think your basic premise is flawed. (Possibly on more than one level)
No publisher puts a title out for the love of the editorial content. In their view, a magazine only exists to sell advertising space - nothing else. Any publisher will also tell you that profits are balanced between titles that sell well and titles that don\'t. To cheer yourself up on this score, spend a happy evening working out what it cost Future Publishing to float J-Tuner for as long as it lasted. They could not make it pay (enough) and they are (were?) the largest publisher of consumer titles in Europe.
J-Tuner though did enthusiasts a major service in its short life, as it taught the other titles that just buying in agency articles from the US was not enough. They both still do it but are making a visible effort to include more UK material. If it makes you feel better, that effort will be coming off their bottom line - because it is far more trouble and expense to set up a shoot here, even with a free car, than it is to take the whole package off the wire.
I also think it is unlikely that anyone at the sharp end of producing a magazine, for a niche like Japanese enthusiasts, is living riotously well on the income they make from writing or shooting for it. I doubt many of them would have the wherewithall to commission anything on the same scale as the car they were writing about in this instance. The cult of celebrity may apply to Clarkson et al and those supermodels much-mentioned above but only once they have become household names do they have an asset value that would justify high fees to a publisher. How many people reading this (if any) can name a journalist writing for a Japanese title? (That’s ‘currently’ by the way for J-tuner fans and as he wasn’t actually christened ‘Scary Steve’ that won’t count either.)
There is the additional argument that an owner gains from the exposure as he/she is able to use "as seen in..." when the car goes up for sale. Yours may not be but Japanese, like most other car titles, are always able to fill pages with vehicles that are (or are about to be) up for sale. From a publisher’s perspective this means they are giving away free advertising. A particularly painful heresy, it would seem to them to represent ‘exchange’ rather than ‘exploitation’.
None of this will offset the cost of doing something really expensive, something that involves lots of bespoke problem solving by owner or builder. Still, if creating the car was about return on investment I think that was probably the first mistake.
Incidentally, I don’t mind whether you join anything or not. I would be mildly interested to see the car but not sufficiently motivated to buy a magazine and no, I was not paid by the word for this submission, I wrote it for pleasure and because the thread made me laugh. Good luck with the car. Sprinkle some cocaine around the air intake, run into a supermodel coming out of an alcohol rehabilitation clinic and we could be talking ‘Hello’ magazine and some really big bucks… Call me â€" our people should do lunch. ?
Ok I think you have a Slight error in your assessment of the sole purpose of a magazines existence, To sell advertising space! I don’t think so. Advertising space is just part of the economic equation. The other aspects of a magazine is to make it attractive to potential buyers of the mag, Very few people will purchase a magazine solely for the purpose of obtaining a 110 pages of adverts from varying companies. Features are what make it predominantly attractive to the high street purchasers. 95% people get a car mag to read and check out futures and special cars shown and wrote about inside. Profits come ONLY from two sides in magazine sales. (1) As you say, advertising space generates a good percent of the income. The second is the individuals who purchase it from the shops. And why do they purchase it. As mentioned above. That’s why! You mentioned super models and alike. Even less know models get paid. If your car, is used in a pop video, you get paid. The fact is, special cars help and do sell magazines to the public, which correlates directly to it’s profit margin. To me it’s a quite simple analogy, to a company who uses labour. If the company can get itâ,¬\'s work force for nothing, well, why pay for it. Look at some the monster companies out there who have shipped their help desks to India and alike. Done purely on an increasing profit margin principle. To me it’s the same logic, To say it’s all about the pride of having your car shown to the readers out there, is little short of a very poor booby prize. An opium for us who do it. It’s pure exploitation. Why don’t TV personalities, film stars, do it for nothing ? Cos they can get paid, why don’t they use your logic and say, it’s good enough that everyone knows my famous face or something.
I Find it strange that people appear to get insulting and personal when I say these things, It’s got nothing to do with me wanting to have my head up my ass or some other odd psychological reason for saying these things. It’s fair, it’s they way the World works, Not talking friends here, it’s business things, Ever heard there’s no friends in business, it’s true.
:Thumbsup!
Quote from: normskiI Find it strange that people appear to get insulting and personal when I say these things, It’s got nothing to do with me wanting to have my head up my ass or some other odd psychological reason for saying these things. It’s fair, it’s they way the World works, Not talking friends here, it’s business things, Ever heard there’s no friends in business, it’s true.
:Thumbsup!
more wise words :cheers
I would have been well happy to get my car in the Rotostock DVD - managed the web site :D
Still, I do feature in it at least twice in the background - so as a part time model perhaps I should approach Glenn and Clive and ask for some discount - LOL
...perhaps not - as Oldone said - some of us are just enthusiasts - driving a car for me is what makes me smile - not seeing it in print.
Still - respect for putting a 20B in an FD.
Prof
Quote from: normskiNot talking friends here, it’s business things, Ever heard there’s no friends in business, it’s true.
:Thumbsup!
What the hell are you on about!?!?????
What is it that your promoting (business wise), what the hell is it your marketing (business wise).........absolutly nothing!!!.....other than your own ego!
You are not selling anything here, a car enthusiast magazine feature is a car enthusiast magazine feature, not some sort of business to business adventure.
:2Confused :2Confused :2Confused
Quote from: jinxIncidentally, I don’t mind whether you join anything or not. I would be mildly interested to see the car but not sufficiently motivated to buy a magazine and no, I was not paid by the word for this submission, I wrote it for pleasure and because the thread made me laugh. Good luck with the car. Sprinkle some cocaine around the air intake, run into a supermodel coming out of an alcohol rehabilitation clinic and we could be talking ‘Hello’ magazine and some really big bucks… Call me â€" our people should do lunch. ?
WIIIIIIIIIINNNNEREERERRE
It’s got nothing to do with me or my B****y ego! It’s all about the car. Or a car, any B****y car, It’s all to do with that that’s all. I am not promoting my own Ass! As some seem to obsessed with indicating. My face is far tooo ugly for a magazine, ( unless, it’s a freak show thing). Come on, you know out there in the big wide nasty little World we all inhabit, No one does you any favours, Unless it’s some mate up the road. 99% of these magazines would not publish the fact that some nasty little Sheeeeet! Had done your nice machine over, and offered to publish it’s details and picture in a attempt help you find it after it got nicked. Na they would not want to know! Unless you paid of course for an add to go in. I wrote to this nice magazine and asked politely if would be so kind as to send the unused photos of the car via E-mail. Just a bit of time in return, Nothing, did not even reply, to the request. It cost me my time and money for the last magazine I was in, £20.00 petrol for starters. They would not even reply to my Mails. Thats really fair, Got our article, you can F***** off now. SO it’s easy to see where I get this attitude from isn’t it! By the way, not being as rude as they are I won’t mention who they are, but some may know the magazine the car was in last time. :Grrr
Have read this thread and imo it is a bit of a storm in a teacup; I don\'t think there is that much difference between the two opinions being stated. Normski, you say you feel that folks should be paid to feature their cars in a mag and in an ideal world this may well be the way it should work; but matters of this sort tend to find their own equilibrium. Because most people are very happy to have their cars featured for nothing, there is no incentive for the mags to pay and so they don\'t -It is just the way it is and it is a kind of win-win situation for car owner and mag alike. If mags had to start paying, then market forces would prevail and inevitably some folks would be happy to do it for less and some for even less and before you knew it, it would be back to how it is - meaning it is probably the natural point of equilibrium for this particular activity (owners are after all not running a business and it therefore cannot be viewed as a business operation with overheads and profit margins).
I run a business in the electronics sector and if I wish to get my Company featured in one of the electronics journals, the best I will manage is a free entry (provided the magazine judge it an interesting enough article), but many journals will look for payment and I have to take the view that it is a good marketing exercise for the Company to appear in the magazine and therefore worth doing - once again, this is just the way it is - market forces at equilibrium.
Normski - Err no, not an ego thing, nor any personal insult intended...it is as you say - just business.
The point is that the editorial - the bit you suggest the paying public buy the magazine for - is only a means to an end for a publisher - the man that writes the cheques for the contributors. Circulation is the touchstone by which he convinces the really important people, the advertisers - to believe the magazine will help them sell more. As long as it shifts off the shelf in respectable numbers the publisher often will not be overly bothered about what is actually in it. The magazine makes no money publishing stories â€" it is why none of them can survive without the adverts. Repeat: The cover price of a magazine does not represent any meaniningful percentage, if any, of their profits . Incidentally if nobody would buy a magazine for pages of adverts how do you explain over 100 years of Exchange and Mart and the expansive growth of Auto Trader etc? :chat
Do the staff of the niche magazine your car was presumably featured in - if indeed there actually are any staff - want shooting for not sending you pictures? Yes of course â€" if they have them. But by your own yardstick: the one that says nothing is (or should be) for nothing - you are probably not surprised at their inaction given they would not receive any reward outside heaven for doing it. Mail the photographer and you will probably get a bill too, as he will want to guard his intellectual property rights. It’s nothing personal - just business. I think not even sending a few free copies was pushing the boat out on the wrong side of mean but then the magazine quite possibly consists of a part time editor, a few freelancers, a secretary and an art department who don’t care what it is as long as it’s out the door on time. The publisher will very probably be unintersted in reading anything other than a spreadsheet. Nothing personal, it’s just business.
Quote:
“Why don’t TV personalities, film stars, do it for nothing ? Cos they can get paid, why don’t they use your logic and say, it’s good enough that everyone knows my famous face or something.â€
Not my logic and have made no suggestion that anyone should do it for nothing. The point really was that if people go for a feature then, as it is just business, the standard terms and conditions apply. Celebrities and movie stars don’t do it for nothing because their asset value is high and as you rightly say they can get paid. The point is in this instance car owners cannot because their value to a publisher is small and easily replaced.
Sad perhaps, but in an age when people believe that being famous is a career choice, publishers will not lack offers from people eager to climb the notoriety ladder, if even only by a association with their car. (Whether their motives are personal or promotion of a car for sale or to increase it’s asset value on the show circuit is largely immaterial.)
Next time, write your own feature, take your own pictures and sell the package yourself. Not only will you not be left in the lurch by a slipshod publisher\'s administration - you will find out how much those high living journo’s and snappers you have been featherbedding actually make for ripping you off. I’ll hazard a guess you’ll be disappointed with the returns.:wave
Storm in a teacup?...best place for them and should fit right in around here.
I got my first car featured in a magazine (ok it was a corsa and it was Redline magazine, but it was pretty cool when I was 18)
And do you know why I did it? Purely so I could prove to my disbelieving friends that I could. The reward for getting my car in a magazine was to get my car in a magazine
All I got out of it was a few polaroid testers the photographer did (which I treasure dearly) and not even a free copy of the mag! I didn\'t care, I was ecstatic about it!
If you wanted to spend thousands of pounds on something in order to generate some money from it in the future, buy some stocks.
:)
Quote from: normskiTo say such things without any form of quailification is a little shallow, don\'t you think! To hurl abuse or make rash derogatory statements without qualification of them first is a little sad! If someone is a fool, then you should be able to justify you’re your opinion, It appears you have not offered one statement to do this, so please allow others the freedom to view life outside the box! So come on then, what’s wrong with this approach, if I am so Anal ! Please educate me on this point!!! :Snoring
OH DEAR....Norm, I\'m sure you \'kick arse\' etc etc, but take what i said with a pinch of humour! I have met you on a few occasions, and obviously you were full of importance then too, as you don\'t remember me from Adam! If you had a sense of achievement, it should be an honour to be able to spread the Rotory news, not to try and capatilize(and then winge) from someone elses hard work and innovation!
J
wwwwwwwiiiiiiinnnnner!!!!
winnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnerrrrrrrrrr
Quote from: dandanI got my first car featured in a magazine (ok it was a corsa and it was Redline magazine, but it was pretty cool when I was 18)
And do you know why I did it? Purely so I could prove to my disbelieving friends that I could. The reward for getting my car in a magazine was to get my car in a magazine
All I got out of it was a few polaroid testers the photographer did (which I treasure dearly) and not even a free copy of the mag! I didn\'t care, I was ecstatic about it!
If you wanted to spend thousands of pounds on something in order to generate some money from it in the future, buy some stocks.
:)
Exacto mundo :Thumbsup! :WaveBye :god :wiggle
Winner (oops)
Winner.....:o
Quote from: AdriansturgessWinner.....:o
Your cheating Adrian!!!! You can\'t hyjack serious threads for your own gratification!!!!! Its sad!!!!!!:mad:
Winner!!!!!!!!:) Oops sorry!!!!:o :Tongue1
There appears to be a degree of personal animosity directed towards Normanski here that goes beyond what appears to be reasonable purely based on what has been said on this thread.
Quote from: pete sparrowYour cheating Adrian!!!! You can\'t hyjack serious threads for your own gratification!!!!! Its sad!!!!!!:mad:
Damn, you\'re too quick for me Pete....:p
Quote from: AdriansturgessThere appears to be a degree of personal animosity directed towards Normanski here that goes beyond what appears to be reasonable purely based on what has been said on this thread.
I don\'t think it helps Norm being a guest. Paid up members seem to have more tolerance for other members! This thread is his personal gripe about a certain magazine,and if he\'s come for some sympathy,he\'s obviously in the wrong place! Seems to me from reading this thread he\'s made the wrong impression with a couple of the members in the past weither on a forum or in person. Think he\'s fighting a loosing battle! Like i said earlier,its for the glory not financial gain!!
Quote from: jinxNormski - Err no, not an ego thing, nor any personal insult intended...it is as you say - just business.
The point is that the editorial - the bit you suggest the paying public buy the magazine for - is only a means to an end for a publisher - the man that writes the cheques for the contributors. Circulation is the touchstone by which he convinces the really important people, the advertisers - to believe the magazine will help them sell more. As long as it shifts off the shelf in respectable numbers the publisher often will not be overly bothered about what is actually in it. The magazine makes no money publishing stories â€" it is why none of them can survive without the adverts. Repeat: The cover price of a magazine does not represent any meaniningful percentage, if any, of their profits . Incidentally if nobody would buy a magazine for pages of adverts how do you explain over 100 years of Exchange and Mart and the expansive growth of Auto Trader etc? :chat
Do the staff of the niche magazine your car was presumably featured in - if indeed there actually are any staff - want shooting for not sending you pictures? Yes of course â€" if they have them. But by your own yardstick: the one that says nothing is (or should be) for nothing - you are probably not surprised at their inaction given they would not receive any reward outside heaven for doing it. Mail the photographer and you will probably get a bill too, as he will want to guard his intellectual property rights. It’s nothing personal - just business. I think not even sending a few free copies was pushing the boat out on the wrong side of mean but then the magazine quite possibly consists of a part time editor, a few freelancers, a secretary and an art department who don’t care what it is as long as it’s out the door on time. The publisher will very probably be unintersted in reading anything other than a spreadsheet. Nothing personal, it’s just business.
Quote:
“Why don’t TV personalities, film stars, do it for nothing ? Cos they can get paid, why don’t they use your logic and say, it’s good enough that everyone knows my famous face or something.â€
Not my logic and have made no suggestion that anyone should do it for nothing. The point really was that if people go for a feature then, as it is just business, the standard terms and conditions apply. Celebrities and movie stars don’t do it for nothing because their asset value is high and as you rightly say they can get paid. The point is in this instance car owners cannot because their value to a publisher is small and easily replaced.
Sad perhaps, but in an age when people believe that being famous is a career choice, publishers will not lack offers from people eager to climb the notoriety ladder, if even only by a association with their car. (Whether their motives are personal or promotion of a car for sale or to increase it’s asset value on the show circuit is largely immaterial.)
Next time, write your own feature, take your own pictures and sell the package yourself. Not only will you not be left in the lurch by a slipshod publisher\'s administration - you will find out how much those high living journo’s and snappers you have been featherbedding actually make for ripping you off. I’ll hazard a guess you’ll be disappointed with the returns.:wave
As, I think said on my first comment, right at the top, What I was saying was, If we ALL said No, we wanted paying, they would be in the crap. I know, of course this is a ideal World situation, and it\'s not like that, hence this string of comments. It\'s a divided we fall, united we stand situation. It seems what you are saying is ( in theroy) at least, you agree with me, but real World situations, it just does not happen. I, we, know this. Your standard terms and conditions apply ( or could , in theroy apply in this case to), Magazines are using, human nature, Ego, to take advantage of the populus. I am only saying this!
Quote from: pete sparrowI don\'t think it helps Norm being a guest. Paid up members seem to have more tolerance for other members! This thread is his personal gripe about a certain magazine,and if he\'s come for some sympathy,he\'s obviously in the wrong place! Seems to me from reading this thread he\'s made the wrong impression with a couple of the members in the past weither on a forum or in person. Think he\'s fighting a loosing battle! Like i said earlier,its for the glory not financial gain!!
Yes I am sorry to say many of the individuals who Frequent this message board, are a bit too insular for me. And by the way, most scientific, and social progress, throughout history has predominantly been achieved through confrontation with the norms and values, not conforming. Most of you will be please to hear, I give up! I’m off. It seems we like the same cars that’s about it, so have fun look after yourselves Goodbye! :WaveBye
The thing is Norman,there is no way that it will ever be possible to change this.You just would not be able to get everyone to boycott it,that is an unfortunate reality.:(
Regards
Carl
Quote from: normskiYes I am sorry to say many of the individuals who Frequent this message board, are a bit too insular for me. And by the way, most scientific, and social progress, throughout history has predominantly been achieved through confrontation with the norms and values, not conforming. Most of you will be please to hear, I give up! I’m off. It seems we like the same cars that’s about it, so have fun look after yourselves Goodbye! :WaveBye
I think thats a shame.
Quote from: normskiYes I am sorry to say many of the individuals who Frequent this message board, are a bit too insular for me. And by the way, most scientific, and social progress, throughout history has predominantly been achieved through confrontation with the norms and values, not conforming. Most of you will be please to hear, I give up! I’m off. It seems we like the same cars that’s about it, so have fun look after yourselves Goodbye! :WaveBye
I think its insular of you to think that people on here are narrow minded you don\'t know me or others from adam wake up man, you raise some vaild points but the way you convey them seems from a lofty height.
Bit weak of you to run off but fair dues enjoy your solitude.
Quote from: normskiYes I am sorry to say many of the individuals who Frequent this message board, are a bit too insular for me. And by the way, most scientific, and social progress, throughout history has predominantly been achieved through confrontation with the norms and values, not conforming. Most of you will be please to hear, I give up! I’m off. It seems we like the same cars that’s about it, so have fun look after yourselves Goodbye! :WaveBye
Hence my signature!!!!!!!!
Anyone want a wager on weither Normski returns or not???:)
Quote from: pete sparrowAnyone want a wager on weither Normski returns or not???:)
No sir,......he has not left !!!! |He has gone into stealth mode,he is looking and searching,he is walking backwards as not to leave any foot prints,whilst speaking into a plastic bag so nobody can hear him,and finally he has taken to writing with an erasure so nobody can see.....so beware...the Normski is here...:guinness :rollin :evillaugh
Quote from: oldoneNo sir,......he has not left !!!! |He has gone into stealth mode,he is looking and searching,he is walking backwards as not to leave any foot prints,whilst speaking into a plastic bag so nobody can hear him,and finally he has taken to writing with an erasure so nobody can see.....so beware...the Normski is here...:guinness :rollin :evillaugh
He\'ll still show up at the bottom of the forum page!! Hope he hasn\'t got that plastic bag your on about over his head!?!? It could be very dangerous!!:)
Gents could we ease on the unnecessary shot firing please..
Norman made a point which does have a bit of substance and one guy steamed in(who is also a NON MEMBER mind you) and the rest followed....(the usual)
Norman may be different and may have a posting style similar to Sadam Hussian which some may or may not take a shine to, but there was no need to let a rather unimportant subject of a mag feature escalate or should I say degenerate to 3 pages of waste!
Think everyone made their feeling heard, so if thats it then, no more on this please, and let me carry on to \'Win\'...
TRex Winner ---- :Thumbs-up
Gents could we ease on the unnecessary shot firing please..
Norman made a point which does have a bit of substance and one guy steamed in(who is also a NON MEMBER mind you) and the rest followed....(the usual)
Norman may be different and may have a posting style similar to Sadam Hussian which some may or may not take a shine to, but there was no need to let a rather unimportant subject of a mag feature escalate or should I say degenerate to 3 pages of waste!
Think everyone made their feeling heard, so if thats it then, no more on this please, and let me carry on to \'Win\'...
TRex Winner ----
By the way, I have never met the dude, but the entertainment is always welcome!
Norman... respect bud, sign up for the new year(membership) and the singers will have one less dart to throw! ;)
Howl at the moon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Beat it wolf boys.... or I will have to \'confront and conform\' your arses... :spank
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winner :King
Quote from: TRexBeat it wolf boys.... or I will have to \'confront and conform\' your arses... :spank
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winner :King
Is that a threat or a promise darling!?!?!?!?!?!?;)
Quote from: TRexNorman made a point which does have a bit of substance and one guy steamed in(who is also a NON MEMBER mind you) and the rest followed....(the usual)
Not yet im not, but i\'m gonna become one even before i get my next rx7:Thumbs-up
Quote from: pete sparrowIs that a threat or a promise darling!?!?!?!?!?!?;)
Carefull Sparrow,they wield a whip called \'BANNED\'..........:Hammer :rollin :evillaugh
Quote from: DLNNot yet im not, but i\'m gonna become one even before i get my next rx7:Thumbs-up
Good man! :cheers
Just beware of the gay brigade in here that call themselves \'the pink wolf girls of the night\' or something like that... extremly shady group! :Tongue1
Quote from: oldoneCarefull Sparrow,they wield a whip called \'BANNED\'..........:Hammer :rollin :evillaugh
Ban for what,speaking the truth?!?!?!?!!?!??!:D
Quote from: TRexGood man! :cheers
Just beware of the gay brigade in here that call themselves \'the pink wolf girls of the night\' or something like that... extremly shady group! :Tongue1
Listen you Aviation AA person,...let me tell you something,at least we are in touch with our femine side !!!!!!!!!:spank I forgot to laugh hehe
The truth has many guises and many disguises
Quote from: AdriansturgessThe truth has many guises and many disguises
Quote from what text??????
Quote from: AdriansturgessThe truth has many guises and many disguises
Thats it...:eek: Im off to the complaints dept now....Cliivvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeee.....:spank
Quote from: pete sparrowQuote from what text??????
?%^*&????????
Quote from: oldoneThats it...:eek: Im off to the complaints dept now....Cliivvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeee.....:spank
Touchy, Touchy.....take a deeper draught on the old peace pipe and wait for heartbeat to stop racing.
Quote from: AdriansturgessTouchy, Touchy.....take a deeper draught on the old peace pipe and wait for heartbeat to stop racing.
I have ,I have.........:yes phew.......:guinness need to go and lay my head down now :rolleyes:
...... .......
Will report you to Sir, Rex.......:spank I feel abused...:(
Quote from: Adriansturgess?%^*&????????
Thats a oxymoron!!!!! No actual quote!!?!?!?!? Thought you were brighter than that?!?!?!?!
Basically Norm has got himself in the trouble and now tried to dig his way out with no success!!!! Now we\'re supposed to take it easy on him because he\'s a non member or what!?!?!? He lite the fire,let him take the flames!!!! I\'ve said ealier in this thread,he\'d of had an easier ride if he\'d been a member and i stand by that!!! He\'s received a bit of rough off a few members down to his arrogance,and thats all!! Maybe if he changed his attitude he\'d be better received!??!?! He doesn\'t have to lord it around this forum because he has a 3 rotor engine!!! Quite a few 2 rotors will take him on any day!!!!!
Lol :rollin :rollin :rollin .... Luv it Pete..... luv it mate.... lol :Giggle
BTW, you boys get back in your \'who wins\' box...
This here thread is mine.... mine I telll ya........ :flamed
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lol, :rollin
There can only be one,tis the oldone,the winner......:guinness
Quote from: AdriansturgessTouchy, Touchy.....take a deeper draught on the old peace pipe and wait for heartbeat to stop racing.
Are you insinuating Oldone takes mind altering substances?????
Quote from: pete sparrowThats a oxymoron!!!!! No actual quote!!?!?!?!? Thought you were brighter than that?!?!?!?!
Basically Norm has got himself in the trouble and now tried to dig his way out with no success!!!! Now we\'re supposed to take it easy on him because he\'s a non member or what!?!?!? He lite the fire,let him take the flames!!!! I\'ve said ealier in this thread,he\'d of had an easier ride if he\'d been a member and i stand by that!!! He\'s received a bit of rough off a few members down to his arrogance,and thats all!! Maybe if he changed his attitude he\'d be better received!??!?! He doesn\'t have to lord it around this forum because he has a 3 rotor engine!!! Quite a few 2 rotors will take him on any day!!!!!
Oh well......seeing as you ask.....Was not meant to be taken so seriously....was no quote that I am aware of and just a tongue in cheek way of saying that the \'truth\' can be a slippery beast and hard to pin down and was considered as a generalised smart arse comment rather than specific to anything said in this thread......Heck, beam me up Scotty!
Quote from: pete sparrowAre you insinuating Oldone takes mind altering substances?????
Wouldn\'t dream of it....:Nono! :spank
Quote from: AdriansturgessOh well......seeing as you ask.....Was not meant to be taken so seriously....was no quote that I am aware of and just a tongue in cheek way of saying that the \'truth\' can be a slippery beast and hard to pin down and was considered as a generalised smart arse comment rather than specific to anything said in this thread......Heck, beam me up Scotty!
That\'s what "smilies" are for!!! You use them to complement the situation!!!! No point being a smug poster if know one understands you!!!:)
Quote from: AdriansturgessWouldn\'t dream of it....:Nono! :spank
Good!!:) ..................................
Quote from: pete sparrowThat\'s what "smilies" are for!!! You use them to complement the situation!!!! No point being a smug poster if know one understands you!!!:)
Yeah, yeah, yeah uncle Pete....................:spank
Quote from: AdriansturgessYeah, yeah, yeah uncle Pete....................:spank
Be very careful Adrian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Era calls me uncle!!! Knowone else!!!!!!!!:Viking
You been on that strong Cider again Pete??????? :guinness :D
Quote from: AdriansturgessYou been on that strong Cider again Pete??????? :guinness :D
Actually no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember your place,because i remember mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!