I know the ports are a different shape and size, I think the Stationary gears are different in the REW, possibly hardened, can anyone confirm this?
What other differences are there cos the 13bT revs to 7k rpm and the REW revs to 8k rpm.
Are all the oil ways different or is there a different oil pressure?
Are the rotors the same, i thought they were the same but i have heard they may be different
Just wondered what is needed to make a Turbo II engine (s5) rev like an REW.
I remember reading somewhere about how everything is oiled being different - something also do do with eccentric shaft. Wish I could remember where I read that article as it highlighted quite a few of the difference\'s!
As regard\'s to RPM - are the eccentric shaft & rotors lighter you think?
Just guessing but I would like to know! :)
Rotors on the FD are the same weight and compression for the turbo2,but heavier and lower compression on the turbo1\'s.
The rotors on the FD are clearanced for higher rpm too.
The stationary gear bearings are multiwindow on the FD,but not on the FC.
Other things I think you know about.
Stationary gears are almost as good as competition on the FD too.
Regards
Carl
i have vague memories of the oil system being different but wasnt sure.
i\'m interested to know if the eccentric shaft and rotors are different
Quote from: antnicuki have vague memories of the oil system being different but wasnt sure.
i\'m interested to know if the eccentric shaft and rotors are different
Think I just said about that!!
Regards
Carl
thanks Carl, i think i was typing when your post went up.
i didnt know about the rotors being clearenced.
What do you mean by Stationary gears are almost as good as competition on the FD too.
cheers
tony
REW eccentric shaft has better oilways. Higher oil pressure and regulator...80psi. Don\'t use this setup with the FC oil cooler, as it won\'t take the pressure.
The REW stationary gears are of compitition standard. although you will need to use REW bearings.
Cheers,
John
I understood the cooling channels in the housings are better on the REW engine - this would allow better cooling - potentially higher powers to be run
That too, aswell as the gap between the trailing and leading plugs being larger, enabling safer timing advance.
J
interesting, so, what do i need to do to an FC Engine to make it rev to 8k
Quote from: antnicukinteresting, so, what do i need to do to an FC Engine to make it rev to 8k
Push the right hand pedal a bit harder.
Quote from: 88GT-RThat too, aswell as the gap between the trailing and leading plugs being larger, enabling safer timing advance.
J
agree with John.
There is much diferenz in Rotorhousing- design on Series4 (180to 185hp versions) and the Series5 Version. The S5 housings are same "gap-size" as FD housings, but S4 housing are different.
Oil- presure is another point as John allready mentioned. FC will run at about 4 to maximum 4,5 BAR oil press, where FD will run more wich make the engine runing safer on high revs.
To make your engine rev 8k, is simple as it will take the rev range with stock ancillaries, where the FD engine will take more than 8k.
But, why do you need more rev? I think you wanna run a big Turbo and use more of the power- band, like GT40 to GT42 turbos will do and make crazy power ans stay withion optimal range of compressor?
Many smal- size turbos will drop in power at 7 to 8k RPM or even earlier!
REgards
Iwan
so basically i could rev mine higher without consequence, asusming of course my power hasnt tailed off. At the moment power is dropping at about 7000, i will be looking to do some mods soon so i hope to raise the drop off point to 7800 - 8k before power drops off.
I know the best way would be to go REW or RE but i would like to stick to the turbo II block as its a turbo II car and cos they are much cheaper to find. Might be getting my dremel out and start putting some additional holes in the plates......................
of couse it all depends on your current setup and the engine condition.
So what modifications dou you want to perform? getting the timings more advanced at the top end? Take car with timing at the "drop" point.
If you have 3mm Apex seals, forget 8k RPM! If you are on stock Mazda 2mm seals, your engine should take 8k no problem. I would recommend to you to get the adjustable oil- press regulator from Racing- Beat to support your bearings at high RPM. Excentric-shaft oil jets are a good idea as well.
In my opinion, any 13B can handle 8k and even much more. Ask Tim ^^ as I\'ve heard crazy RPM numbers from his car, but some engines will require some modifications.
Or what would you say Carl and John, as you both went through few engines like myself ^^
REgards
Iwan
why can\'t you get 8K rpm with 3mm apex seals ?
Quote from: Iwanof couse it all depends on your current setup and the engine condition.
So what modifications dou you want to perform? getting the timings more advanced at the top end? Take car with timing at the "drop" point.
If you have 3mm Apex seals, forget 8k RPM! If you are on stock Mazda 2mm seals, your engine should take 8k no problem. I would recommend to you to get the adjustable oil- press regulator from Racing- Beat to support your bearings at high RPM. Excentric-shaft oil jets are a good idea as well.
In my opinion, any 13B can handle 8k and even much more. Ask Tim ^^ as I\'ve heard crazy RPM numbers from his car, but some engines will require some modifications.
Or what would you say Carl and John, as you both went through few engines like myself ^^
REgards
Iwan
Are we talking Tim (RX Motors - Tim)? If so I thought his silly rpm came from a 12a?
i think its cos they are heavier and chatter but i may be wrong
I have run a 13b up to 11,500 rpm with 3mm seals.
I regularly build them with 3mm seals that can easily take 8000 rpm no probs.
You just need to make the appropriate mods.
The key things for you to do Antony are to use FD rotors,FD stationary gears and bearings and an FD eccentric shaft,and oil pressure regulator.
This will work fine for a bit more than 8000 rpm,but if you stick to 8000 rpm you will get more life.
Regards
Carl
...so what is Tony planning, something for the weekend (Aug 11-12) ?
Agree with Carl, except DO NOT RUN high oil pressure through an FC cooler! Phone me for a chat, Ant.
John
As i have said before go back to the Fc plenum! It works
probably we should differ the usage of 3mm Apex seals in two categories.
In NA application wit 3mm carbon seals, you will be OK for over 8k RPM, but for myself, I would not use the steal 3mm Apex seals on turbocharged application for over 8k RPM.
For sure, it may works fine one twice or even more, but you will damage rotorhousing using 3mm steal seals at such high RPM.
REgards
Iwan
Hi Iwan,
I agree with you to an extent,but it is possible to run engines with 3mm seals to 8000rpm for along time and many miles if done with certain modifications,I have built many FD engines with 3mm steel tips with no problems.
I have read for years that "you shouldn\'t do this thing on rotaries",or "You shouldn\'t do that thing",but having tried alot of things out I know that this is something that works,but it must be done right.
I only put things in and on customer engines that we have tried on our own cars first to be sure that they will work.
Kind regards
Carl
Quote from: CarlThe key things for you to do Antony are to use FD rotors,FD stationary gears and bearings and an FD eccentric shaft,and oil pressure regulator.
I thought the FD rotors and S5 FC rotors were the same?
is that not the case
Quote from: antnicukI thought the FD rotors and S5 FC rotors were the same?
is that not the case
Same weight,and compression,but not clearance.
Regards
Carl