Hi ya guys,
As some of you may well know i am having some boost problems and am getting fed up fixing them, the RX7 is strictly a toy and have a lot of mods to go on soon, also I am in the process of cleaning up the engine bay to make ti nice, at some point I\'m going to go single too, so basically what I\'m saying is, should i go non seqential.
I have a downpipe/Decat/Cat Back so it should still spool up relatively quickly, I don\'t mind fixing the boost problems I have I just don\'t really want to get anymore, the though of getting them all working then a month later them stopping already annoys me.
If I was to go non sequential I\'d do it properly by removing the turbo\'s and having the wastegate enlarged.
So come on guys, pro\'s and con\'s what does everyone recon?
Al
No cons from me mate... Just do it.. best thing ever... you will never have hassel again!
It either works or it don\'t.... Simple and sweet..... :Thumbs-up
Now stop posting and get cracking with it....
Oh, and yes deffo do it properly, it\'s the only way!
From what ive heard you can avoid the lag with driving style, like if youve got a big single. If your on a bit of a run your normally in non-sequential mode anyways.
I\'d probably do it if I was planning on going single anyways, could save you a bit of time and money, if I was keeping twins though would prefer the sequential mode.
Here a recent thread about pros and cons, some info after the initial few posts http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=596489&highlight=turbos
As I\'m sure you all know I run a T51, ( they don\'t come much bigger on a road car) It does not come fully on line until 5000 revs, so yes, you do have to change your driving style. But it dosn\'t take long and the power is FANTASTIC.
There is a big plus that I had no idea would be out there. If I only drive using up to 4000 revs and 0 boost I get 350 miles to a tank of fuel. Found that out running in the RE Engine, needless to say I don\'t do that but I do know that normal driving I have a good fuel consumption.
Going single is all about what you want as an end result. HTH.
Oh don\'t get me wrong i\'m heading single at some point but I\'ve got some interesting plans first though an some r and d to do so basically everything I\'m doing now means I can just bolt a big single on at some point.
So should I do it? I\'ve got a second set of twins encase I want to put it all back to rights.
Also what sort of cost am I looking at to have the wastegate milled out as thats the only bit I don\'t think I can do.
A
Quote from: allstarukAlso what sort of cost am I looking at to have the wastegate milled out as thats the only bit I don\'t think I can do.
A
£500 plus mines getting milled shortly from 25mm to 28 mm
Quote from: peterwolds£500 plus mines getting milled shortly from 25mm to 28 mm
Just to have it milled thats the only bit I need doing i can remove the turbo\'s and do the rest.
I\'ve been quoted less than that by one of out more well known tunrers.
A
Your plans wouldn\'t involve a T51 " Rules " would it.
You never know, I\'ve not finished deciding what turbo yet.
So anyone know anywhere cheep to get my wastgate enlarged?
A
Call Pip, bet he may have one on the shelf waiting for you!
Quote from: TRexCall Pip, bet he may have one on the shelf waiting for you!
Do you mean, buy a set of turbo\'s already converted, I\'m not to sure how all this works what bit is enlarged it it on the turbo\'s or does the wastgate come off, any explanation would be great.
A
I went non sequential and much preferred it matey.
Just a little off the subject, can you go N/S on a stock engine?
what i mean is no porting or map?:xconfused
I guess that you couldnt !!! as you would have to tell the ecu to add more fuel to get the most out of it?
or could you??????...........
Cheers:Typing
you need the car to be mapped to go non seq..and youd get terrible lag without a catback at the bare minimum.
I was toying with the idea of non-seq but it only took one ride in a car running sequential properly to tell me that was a bad idea! I personally wouldnt bother...thres so many fds out there which are iehter single or non seq...its soon gonna be rare to find an fd runing seq stock twins!
Quote from: G@NDYI went non sequential and much preferred it matey.
Just a little off the subject, can you go N/S on a stock engine?
what i mean is no porting or map?:xconfused
I guess that you couldnt !!! as you would have to tell the ecu to add more fuel to get the most out of it?
or could you??????...........
Cheers:Typing
You shouldn\'t need porting to run non sequential but I will need a map, I\'m gonna give it a go I think along with everything else that I\'m fitting to the car then trailer it down to reworx and get it mapped.
A
Quote from: one2watchits soon gonna be rare to find an fd runing seq stock twins!
That actually works without hassel all the time! :Tongue1
Cool, hassle free power thats what I am looking for, although now I need to find somwhere to get my wastgate milled out on the cheep.
A
Do you have any guides on converting to NS the proper way? I\'ll make my own choice but I may as well look into it while everything is off the car :)
I do i\'m in a rush at the mo, will post tomorrow.
A
Quote from: allstarukI do i\'m in a rush at the mo, will post tomorrow.
A
Much appreciated :)
This looks apropiate http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=576777 But if i were you i would think long and hard about this because by the sound of it after reading various posts, it aint as much fun as seqential mode especially under 3800rpm. Over that rpm range it is in non sequential mode anyway so you wont feel any difference. Im tempted to do this mod myself but just scared incase i hate it and want it changed back to sequential??
Yeah I\'ll be umming and ahhing over this...hopefully getting a large street port so don\'t know if that helps the turbos spool up time or not...I\'m still learning :)
Quote from: RobbieRX-7This looks apropiate http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=576777 But if i were you i would think long and hard about this because by the sound of it after reading various posts, it aint as much fun as seqential mode especially under 3800rpm. Over that rpm range it is in non sequential mode anyway so you wont feel any difference. Im tempted to do this mod myself but just scared incase i hate it and want it changed back to sequential??
Could you not do the poor mans way first? Im sure this is easily reversed. Then, if you like it do it the proper way?
I\'ve got two sets of turbo\'s so I\'m safe if i don\'t like it then it cam just go back to seqential.
a
Going non-seq. for me was a big mistake, it is nothing like running a propper single be it small, medium or large. As people have said before me the reason for Mazda developing this system [with all its faults] was to give low down turbo response, by dissableling that you end up with a 300bhp car that has nothing to write home about below 4.5k and this notion that by going non seq. will give you more power is cr#p can you please tell me how you expect to get more power from the same turbos flowing the same boost but are operating together rather than seq.???
If you have the same sized compressors ect. how do you expect to flow more through the engine, by porting the wastegate you might improve the exhaust flow but not enough to see any significant gains.
Do the non seq. by all means because of boost problems but dont expect tons more power, dont be fooled by the big kick at 4.5k that is just both turbos spooling up together.
HTH
This was taken from the us forum by a member on there....
So I went non sequential to see what the hype is all about. From what I read my set up was perfect for it since it would yield a quicker spool time (Mild Streetport, CAI, PFS SMIC, straight through exhaust. Many claim 10 psi @ 3000 RPMs I thought "great! Win win situation". The reality is that I don\'t get full boost till 3800 RPMs (like many others). Yes I did increase my powerband by 700 RPMs but there is lag. Oh the damn lag... Even at 4200 RPMs the boost is not anywhere instant like the stock system.
Forget all that though. Here are some real world results:
My best friend has an 05 porsche boxter S, not a bad little car actually. I think stock for stock the performance factor goes to the faggot porsche. 280 HP NA, mid engine car (which is great for handling, and launching. For those of you that don\'t know) and weighs about the same as an FD. My buddy and I have been racing each other since we were 16 (in our parent\'s car). Now that we are in our 30\'s **** still the same lol just the cars got faster and nicer. Ok now I\'m rambling...
When he first got his porsche. My mods were: sequential turbos, Mild Streetport, CAI, PFS SMIC, DP, MP, Stock catback, Stock ECU Boost held @ 10psi. We went from a first gear roll. I pulled on him instantly and just left him behind. It was like that with any gear any speed, except during a dig where he would jump ahead by 1/2 a car but by the end of first I was already next to him.
Now: on top of those mods I have non-sequential turbos, RB duals, TUNED power FC, and I\'m running 2 psi more (12 psi). The outcome is that he always jumps at least 1 - 1/2 cars ahead and I always have to play catch up. From a 1st gear roll he leaves me behind (by quite a bit actually), on the middle of second I catch up to him and leave him about a car behind on the top of second, on third he is way back. Even on +80 MPH rolls he gets the jump but I catch up rather quickly and yeah I could brake boost but that\'s not the point. BTW he is 100% stock.
The truth of the matter is that going non-sequential does simplify your setup thus making it easeir to trouble shoot, adds lag, and increases your powerband by 700 RPM\'s. But that 700 RPM increase is actually nothing to be proud of since it has two things working against it: One is the lag (of course) the other is that when you shift at redline your revs drop to what? 4600 RPM\'s. But that\'s exactly where the sequential turbo system is runing the turbos in parallel. So you aren\'t really utilizing those extra 700 RPMs anyway . So what are you left with then? lag and simplicity. That\'s all.
For those that are thinking of going non-sequential: I recommend you try the simplified sequential instead. I believe it\'s only 20 hoses + solenoids so the simplicity is still there. I would go to simplified seq setup myself but my turbos are old and smoke quite bit so I just may go single instead.
The thread is here if you want more info http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=596489&page=1&pp=15&highlight=sequential
Hmmhh, interesting reading there, I am under no illusions that I will gain any power I\'m just fed up fixing boost problems, I think I\'d prefer a working seqential set up but I\'m just getting fed up fixing it.
I\'m very happy with my non-sequential set up. Has the plus side of being able to drive off boost quite nicely. But if you want to boot it, then it\'s all just a gear-change away!
Allstar, you\'re on the right track bud!
Forget the rubbish people talk about lag and power difference etc, their experience of Turbo charged cars are obviously limited to a Twin turbo system running seq.
If it\'s less hassel, trouble free car and less confusion and mess in the engine room, then yes you want to run the Turbo\'s parallel. (non seq)
Quote from: TRexAllstar, you\'re on the right track bud!
Forget the rubbish people talk about lag and power difference etc, their experience of Turbo charged cars are obviously limited to a Twin turbo system running seq.
If it\'s less hassel, trouble free car and less confusion and mess in the engine room, then yes you want to run the Turbo\'s parallel. (non seq)
Rubish smubish, I can only tell you how I found it, if you want to run non seq. good luck, you now have a much less responsive car than before, yet to see one fly past me in what ever guise be it twins or single, simplified twins fine but dont delude yourself running non will give you a better car it dont [imho]
Quote from: RobbieRX-7This was taken from the us forum by a member on there....
So I went non sequential to see what the hype is all about. From what I read ... Even at 4200 RPMs the boost is not anywhere instant like the stock system.
Enough said
Forget all that though. Here are some real world results:
My best friend has an 05 porsche boxter S, not a bad little car actually. I think stock for stock the performance factor goes to the faggot porsche. 280 HP NA, mid engine car (which is great for handling, and launching. For those of you that don\'t know) and weighs about the same as an FD. My buddy and I have been racing each other since we were 16 (in our parent\'s car). Now that we are in our 30\'s **** still the same lol just the cars got faster and nicer. Ok now I\'m rambling...
When he first got his porsche. My mods were: sequential turbos, Mild Streetport, CAI, PFS SMIC, DP, MP, Stock catback, Stock ECU Boost held @ 10psi. We went from a first gear roll. I pulled on him instantly and just left him behind. It was like that with any gear any speed, except during a dig where he would jump ahead by 1/2 a car but by the end of first I was already next to him.
Now: on top of those mods I have non-sequential turbos, RB duals, TUNED power FC, and I\'m running 2 psi more (12 psi). The outcome is that he always jumps at least 1 - 1/2 cars ahead and I always have to play catch up. From a 1st gear roll he leaves me behind (by quite a bit actually), on the middle of second I catch up to him and leave him about a car behind on the top of second, on third he is way back. Even on +80 MPH rolls he gets the jump but I catch up rather quickly and yeah I could brake boost but that\'s not the point. BTW he is 100% stock.
Only reason he has the extra umph is the .2 bar increase in boost
The truth of the matter is that going non-sequential does simplify your setup thus making it easeir to trouble shoot, adds lag, and increases your powerband by 700 RPM\'s. But that 700 RPM increase is actually nothing to be proud of since it has two things working against it: One is the lag (of course) the other is that when you shift at redline your revs drop to what? 4600 RPM\'s. But that\'s exactly where the sequential turbo system is runing the turbos in parallel. So you aren\'t really utilizing those extra 700 RPMs anyway . So what are you left with then? lag and simplicity. That\'s all.
For those that are thinking of going non-sequential: I recommend you try the simplified sequential instead. I believe it\'s only 20 hoses + solenoids so the simplicity is still there. I would go to simplified seq setup myself but my turbos are old and smoke quite bit so I just may go single instead.
The thread is here if you want more info http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=596489&page=1&pp=15&highlght=sequential
Think that says it all
Anyone want to disprove my answers? it is quite easy - put your car on the rollers [with the twins running as they should] and compare once you have done the conversion like I did and you will come to a similar conclusion.
I am not talking about comparing an engine with non boosting turbos against a conversion but when everything is working OK.
John easy fellar, off the box!
I think everyone knows where you stand with this subject as I can surely do a search and see you have pounced on all the non seq thread and preached the same thing..
\'No one is disputing\' what you said about power or lag or whatever your experiences were.. There is a bigger picture if you take the time to read.
The guy is having mega problems with his car(for quite some time now), and he\'s fed up and more or less had enough..
My advise to him is \'yes\', simplify the set up and run the Turbo\'s parallel.. this eliminates alot of crap and if there is problems further down the line, there would be far less things to have checked out!
If you want to take this further, IMO it is a much better set up to have(parallel) for both reliablity and performance! ;)
But I\'m not gonna preach to the pope tonight.
Rgds :)
I would like to say something here about non sequential conversions and the results.
I have carried out quite a large number of these conversions now.When I do so I allways tell the prospective customer that I will reverse the conversion FOC if they are not happy with it,to date out of the twenty to thirty conversions that I have done only two have had it reversed,I think that say\'s enough,but I AM going to say more.
I personally prefer to have the turbo\'s running non sequential on stockish twin turbo\'s that I have owned,and would not ever run my own car sequential again.
Regards
Carl
Hi Carl, I like your results... do mind expanding your reasons out of interest, f(fully understand if you do not want to get into a chat about it on here though mate..) :Thumbs-up
(edited to add) - Johns gone off line now anyway...lol
For one thing the car is much more predictable to chuck about in wet or dry conditions,as you don\'t have the torque fluctuating as you do with the boost dropping,and then coming back again, between change over on partial throttle with the sequential setup.
You do have to learn to drive the car differently on non sequential,using the gearbox more if you want boost,but if you are cruising you definately get more miles to the gallon.Also I think that the tuning has alot to do with satisfactory results from a customer point of view too.
Regards
Carl
Spot on Carl, I couldn\'t add to that really! :)
Also the big point there is that the \'customer is always right\', this you have proven results with, we say no more! :Thumbs-up
Thanks carl I think you\'ve helped me make up my mind, the other reason is I\'m experimenting with designing a custom fuel setup and I think I need the space that the solenoids are in for some of it.
Al
Good Luck, hope it solves your problems....
Same old same old, must be lots of happy non seq out there I will leave you to it , hope it solves your problems, mind you any decent tuner / mechanic would solve your problems even if it mean replacing a few tubes and bits.......... Non seq is an easy option.
I reckon against something like a Skyline with 4wd you wouldnt stand a chance on a drag run, my Rex has enough trouble keeping up from standstill with sequential, let alone non seq. By the time the turbo comes on he\'d be 6-7 car lengths in front.
Keep us informed though mate.
Right after cafefull consideration, well a decent nights kip, I\'ve got two set of turbo\'s.
1st I\'m going to make my sequential system work (or pay somone too), and that will remind me of what its like to actually have a working sequential system.
2nd Convert my 2nd set to non-spequential swap them and see which one I like the most.
I will write up everything I\'ve done and put up a direct comparison of the two in my opinion, to see if we can shed some more light on this debate.
A
Well done that man:Thumbs-up I love it when someone actualy has a go and proves it one way or another.
The thing you have to remember is that most people who have gone non seq. are fed up with boost issues and it is a cheap way of solving the problem regardless of what it does to the way the car feels.
My personel experience was running 320ish atw on a fresh engine with no issues just trying to find some more power [didnt find any], I found it didnt suit my driving style and quickly changed to a single tubby and hiked the power up to 400atw before moving on to the RE engine.
Yeah good on you mate.
Look forward to hearing the results.
The twin feel is fantastic when it works and the first time you get thrown back into your seat when the second turbo comes on is fantastic !!!
Its a completely different car to the Skyline as the twins arent sequential on that. It just feels a constant power.
To be honest I\'ve totally forgotten what the twins feel like when there working, I do remember it being good but, my only dislike is the turbo changin over mid corner and it really unsettling the car.
A
Quote from: John YorkeSame old same old, must be lots of happy non seq out there I will leave you to it , hope it solves your problems, mind you any decent tuner / mechanic would solve your problems even if it mean replacing a few tubes and bits.......... Non seq is an easy option.
John,
I take strong exception to your remarks.
The implication of your words is that many do the non sequential conversion just cos thay have probs with the sequential setup not working properly,and it is the "EASY" option.
THAT IS NOT THE CASE!
Most if not all of the conversions we have done are on a standard perfectly working setup,it is just that the customer has wanted to have their car converted.
Also I do not know what all of this lag business is about,on a standing start,with the right tuning the non sequential setup works very well,just an adjustment in driving mentality with regards to revs off the mark is needed.
The car will be into boost pretty well straight away if it has been done and tuned right,obviously in your case it must have been done poorly,or you were not in sync with how to drive the setup.
Carl
Carl rocks.... :wiggle
Welcome back posting fellar!
Carl: Best of luck mate, I respect you for what you are, I dont have to agree with everything you say and it is a shame you come on a public forum with this attitude, you may be a respected engine builder but it does not mean you have the difinitive answers, your comments would be more acceptable if they were backed up with fact, we can all spout about how many conversions we have done but as I stated before, having carried out before and after conversion tests I found no improvment in performance.
I am realy glad you know so much more than Mazda on the setup of these engines, I am sure Mazda are pleased that having spent years in developing the sequential setup you have found the answer in stripping out their controll system and \'improving\' it.
Maybe the answer would be for you to prove in on the dyno - put a car on the rollers with a propperly tuned set of seq. twins then back to back it with your setup............. just like I did.
All the best:WaveBye
Imagine you have a bag of blackjacks & fruit salads. And you like the fruit salads, but you try one of the blackjacks and don\'t like it.
Then, you see there are a lot of other people who are still eating the blackjacks. Should they not eat them and only have fruit salads, just because you don\'t like them?
Thought not.
End of.
Perfectly sums it up!
Personally I like both ;-)
:( I like neither Blackjacks or fruit salads....
A good ole banana though.... :yes :mmmm
Quote from: John YorkeCarl: Best of luck mate, I respect you for what you are, I dont have to agree with everything you say and it is a shame you come on a public forum with this attitude, you may be a respected engine builder but it does not mean you have the difinitive answers, your comments would be more acceptable if they were backed up with fact, we can all spout about how many conversions we have done but as I stated before, having carried out before and after conversion tests I found no improvment in performance.
I am realy glad you know so much more than Mazda on the setup of these engines, I am sure Mazda are pleased that having spent years in developing the sequential setup you have found the answer in stripping out their controll system and \'improving\' it.
Maybe the answer would be for you to prove in on the dyno - put a car on the rollers with a propperly tuned set of seq. twins then back to back it with your setup............. just like I did.
All the best:WaveBye
Since real life facts don\'t seem to deter you,
I best bow to your superior knowledge, as indeed everyone else obviously must then John.:god
Carl:
Oh dear, another thread...another arguement. I think we should just agree that John doesnt like the conversion and Carl does.....end of.
I think it would be really useful if someone who has this setup (or maybe Carl himself) to post up some dyno figures.
I myself would be interested to see what sort of power the non sequential conversion can make and maybe the graph to see the power curve.
Also if you do the full non sequential conversion does this set you up nicely in the future to move to a single turbo should you decide to go that way (obviously with fuel mods being needed and a remap). But by changing does this mean that no further rats nest work is needed ?
I do have power graphs etc for the poor-man\'s non-seq conversion. I\'ll be happy to post them on Monday. My car is a fair way from stock though (although you\'re not likely to go non-seq without accompying breathing mods, at least).
there shouldnt be any peak power gains from doing the non-seq...at the end of the day, at peak power on both setups, both turbos will be blowing the same amount of air at that particular rpm. the whole argument is about driveability and simplicity. Im staying seq because its standard and runs the stock ecu if you arent running modified. I also like the idea of 2 hits of boost. As long as you have decent enough mods (ie catback and downpipe), i cant really see lag being an issue.
Its a shame so many people are going non-seq or single turbo tho..like i said earlier, there prolly wont be any seqs left soon! Almost everyone ive spoken to (apart from Tim @ RX Motors) seems to prefer the non-seq.
Jesus christ, you people have got to be doing this on purpose! :2Rolleyes
Look, no one said anything about BHP, Single Turbo\'s, Dyno\'s or Skylines but you people for heck sake!
Jeezee the bloke(how many times have I said this) is having problems with his car and is looking to get it working and simplisity is the option to help him with his problem..
He is not looking for performance gains or mod advise.. he just wants his car working with no problems!
What the heck is so hard to understand there! :2Confused
Carl kindly stepped in to offer his advise (from experience which none of you have compared) and the rubbish talk still rolls on!
:2Rolleyes
Quote from: CarlSince real life facts don\'t seem to deter you,
I best bow to your superior knowledge, as indeed everyone else obviously must then John.:god
Carl:
Not at all mate, you have an opinion as well as everyone else. I am just pleased that All starstruck is having a go and is prepared to see which he prefures, you on the other hand seem to have the high and mighty attitude that quite honestly does not suit you, mind I should realise that when you are involved in a thread it inevetably becomes catty.
I will leave you to it, best of luck with your experiments.
Oh I like all three - blackjacks, fruit salad and bananas:)
QuoteSame old same old, must be lots of happy non seq out there I will leave you to it
Quotewhen you are involved in a thread it inevetably becomes catty.
I will leave you to it,
is that a promise this time? Pot Kettle.
Many thanks for all the info Carl, nice to see some Tech info, backed up by huge experience,
Amen to that.
I, too, would rather take note of someone who has a great deal of experience in these matters, as opposed to the ramblings of a NON MEMBER! lol!!!! :Talking1
Quote from: dj_dee99Amen to that.
I, too, would rather take note of someone who has a great deal of experience in these matters, as opposed to the ramblings of a NON MEMBER! lol!!!! :Talking1
lol, you bastid... made me spill my drink on the keyboard.... quality! :Giggle
Quote from: dj_dee99Amen to that.
I, too, would rather take note of someone who has a great deal of experience in these matters, as opposed to the ramblings of a NON MEMBER! lol!!!! :Talking1
Quote from: TRexlol, you bastid... made me spill my drink on the keyboard.... quality! :Giggle
No need to gang up on john. He is just saying his opinion.
No one is ganging up, I just found that chaps comment quite amusing thats all.. :)
Here is a dyno sheet of a stock FD engine in non sequential turbo setup.
The power at peak would be no different from sequential in this setup as it is the easy to reverse version.
Power figure is at the hubs,so flywheel will be higher.
Boost pressure is around 0.85 bar.
Regards
Carl
At the end of the day a properly working Seq twins is quicker in town and low speed digs then any non-seq or single at low speeds, I have driven all three.
Non seq is better for the track as there is no turbo transition to catch you out. Technicaly a properly done non-seq conversion will yeald slightly more peak power if the butterfly/doors are totally removed from the twin turbo pack ie smoother air flow.
Personally for driving round town and off traffic lights if I was going back to a twin turbo car I would go for seq twins, luv how the car takes off and having boost at low rpm.
And remember the quickest twins is Sequantial in this country remember Sdminus low 12 second run!!
I have an idea go bridgeport and a single and have full boost like I have at 3600 rpm :rollin braap braap
Quote from: CarlHere is a dyno sheet of a stock FD engine in non sequential turbo setup.
The power at peak would be no different from sequential in this setup as it is the easy to reverse version.
Power figure is at the hubs,so flywheel will be higher.
Boost pressure is around 0.85 bar.
Regards
Carl
I think you will find that was my point in the 1st place - no significant increase in power, thanks for confirming Carl:flamed
Quote from: John YorkeI think you will find that was my point in the 1st place - no significant increase in power, thanks for confirming Carl:flamed
You are so funny John.........................
Carl
Oh yes and looking at that graph the turbos spool up around 4.5k loads of low down grunt then.....not. Shame you could not include a seq. gragh and show both boost patterns, mind that would be to much to ask. You make me laugh as well Carl.
Quote from: ro284is that a promise this time? Pot Kettle.
Many thanks for all the info Carl, nice to see some Tech info, backed up by huge experience,
You my friend make me laugh, this is supposed to be a community, I have offered an opinion and BACKED it up my own experience [over 6 years and I would point out I was a member here when the club started no25 if I remember correctly], have you?
Because one person has an opinion on something it does not make it right the idea is to get a spectrum of opinion and make your mind up not doing the usual on this forum - gang up and make personel attacks.
Quote from: John YorkeYou my friend make me laugh, this is supposed to be a community, I have offered an opinion and BACKED it up my own experience [over 6 years and I would point out I was a member here when the club started no25 if I remember correctly], have you?
Because one person has an opinion on something it does not make it right the idea is to get a spectrum of opinion and make your mind up not doing the usual on this forum - gang up and make personel attacks.
It\'s that funny man again!!LOL!!
Carl
Unfortunatly this thread has now turned from a tech thread to a bun fight so will now be closed
Al (allstaruk) if there is not enough information for your answer would you mail team@mazdarotaryclub and your thread will be reopened
Good morning gents...
I believe we have more than enough threads on this subject as it is..
So saying that I am considering closing this one as it\'s moved on from "Turbo\'s to Ego\'s"..
Lets leave it saying that everyone has \'Agreed to Disagree\'....:cheers
Rgds
Edit to add... I see someone has beaten me to it...